Bernie's vision would result in half the workforce effectively employed by the government

[Jolly_Penguin]

Nope, I have absolutely no hope to stimulate a reaction from you.

And yet you keep addressing me and responding to my posts with your childish and snide remarks rather than conversing in respectful good faith, and rather than ignoring them as a regular human who doesn't wasn't further interaction would do. Maybe you're a special one.

 

[ZiprHead]

Nope, I have absolutely no hope to stimulate a reaction from you.

And yet you keep addressing me and responding to my posts with your childish and snide remarks rather than conversing in respectful good faith, and rather than ignoring them as a regular human who doesn't wasn't further interaction would do. Maybe you're a special one.

Right back atcha, cupcake.

 

[lpetrich]

I would truly appreciate some honesty from Sanders supporters. Why vote for Sandra except that you believe that Trump is the only other option?

Sandra? Do you mean Bernie Sanders? Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? Both?

As to the OP's moaning and groaning, that ship sailed long ago. 232 years ago, to be exact, when the US Constitution was accepted. Everything in the United States has been subjected to its government ever since.

As to moaning and groaning about the cost of Medicare for All, it will have savings, since one won't have to pay premiums. I think that M4A advocates ought to be VERY loud about that.

As to moaning and groaning about the cost of a Green New Deal, consider the costs of not implementing one. Continued energy inefficiency, continued support of oligarchs and autocrats, more droughts, more wildfires, more floods, more big hurricanes, coastal cities drowned, ...

 

[Elixir]

Yeah, $30 trillion -> $3 trillion a year which is eye popping as that results in 96 million jobs at $31k a year. Make that 48 million if you double for benefits. That is a 1/3 of the work force.

This is one point I think I disagree with Sanders on. He is going to guarantee everyone a job? Doing what? Makework do nothing jobs aren't a good idea. Especially if the workers aren't suited for them. And what happens to people who are bad at the job they get? Can they be let go if there is a job guarantee?

Sanders might believe he can make changes that will result in everyone can have a decent job if they want one... and if so he's probably wrong.
Trump guaranteed the coal workers that coal and manufacturing jobs were coming back. And he almost certainly believed it. He was certainly wrong, but he got elected.

It will be interested to see if Trump will even debate whoever the Dem nominee is, now that he knows he has been wrong about virtually everything, and has the dirt all over him to prove it. Even more interesting to see if he can keep himself convinced enough of his inerrant superiority to make his next set of grandiose false promises sound credible, even to his drooling followers.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I would truly appreciate some honesty from Sanders supporters. Why vote for Sandra except that you believe that Trump is the only other option?

Sandra? Do you mean Bernie Sanders? Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? Both?

As to the OP's moaning and groaning, that ship sailed long ago. 232 years ago, to be exact, when the US Constitution was accepted. Everything in the United States has been subjected to its government ever since.

As to moaning and groaning about the cost of Medicare for All, it will have savings, since one won't have to pay premiums. I think that M4A advocates ought to be VERY loud about that.

As to moaning and groaning about the cost of a Green New Deal, consider the costs of not implementing one. Continued energy inefficiency, continued support of oligarchs and autocrats, more droughts, more wildfires, more floods, more big hurricanes, coastal cities drowned, ...

Well said. It will save money on a societal level. How couldn't it? You are literally cutting out the for profit aspect of it regarding insurance. And its not like other countries haven't already done it. Its in't like you are breaking new ground here. Just follow along with the rest of the modern free world.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It will be interested to see if Trump will even debate whoever the Dem nominee is, now that he knows he has been wrong about virtually everything, and has the dirt all over him to prove it.

That's a good question. He may feel he doesn't need to, or want to otherwise as well. Before he got the position he needed to cut the others down, but debate now? Now that he's on top and they are trying to take him out? It would be pretty funny and not all that surprising if he actually just declined the debate and instead did his rallies.

 

[Politesse]

Yeah, $30 trillion -> $3 trillion a year which is eye popping as that results in 96 million jobs at $31k a year. Make that 48 million if you double for benefits. That is a 1/3 of the work force.

This is one point I think I disagree with Sanders on. He is going to guarantee everyone a job? Doing what? Makework do nothing jobs aren't a good idea. Especially if the workers aren't suited for them. And what happens to people who are bad at the job they get? Can they be let go if there is a job guarantee?

Sanders might believe he can make changes that will result in everyone can have a decent job if they want one... and if so he's probably wrong.
Trump guaranteed the coal workers that coal and manufacturing jobs were coming back. And he almost certainly believed it. He was certainly wrong, but he got elected.

I'm not sure Trump's crowd ever really believed he would do all the crazy things he said they would; they may have just liked the idea of someone saying those things in the White House, upsetting the establishment and giving new life to their more grassroots crowd of ne'er-do-wells. I mean, I kind of feel that way about Sanders. The Houses of Congress are never actually going to vote in Single-Payer without qualification, the whole idea is laughable. But all the same I like the idea of all these fat cats having to make compromises with a president who won't sign shit unless it does something for the American people. If my political priorities were very very different, and I were a racist shithead, I could imagine voting for Trump on principle despite his non-existent track record of actually doing anything.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I mean, I kind of feel that way about Sanders. The Houses of Congress are never actually going to vote in Single-Payer without qualification, the whole idea is laughable. But all the same I like the idea of all these fat cats having to make compromises with a president who won't sign shit unless it does something for the American people.

Yes. And it gets the ball rolling. Its about time the Democrats stood up tot he Republicans. As the old saying goes Republicans have no heart and Democrats have no spine. Time to change both.

 

[Elixir]

Sanders might believe he can make changes that will result in everyone can have a decent job if they want one... and if so he's probably wrong.
Trump guaranteed the coal workers that coal and manufacturing jobs were coming back. And he almost certainly believed it. He was certainly wrong, but he got elected.

I'm not sure Trump's crowd ever really believed he would do all the crazy things he said they would; they may have just liked the idea of someone saying those things in the White House, upsetting the establishment and giving new life to their more grassroots crowd of ne'er-do-wells. I mean, I kind of feel that way about Sanders. The Houses of Congress are never actually going to vote in Single-Payer without qualification, the whole idea is laughable. But all the same I like the idea of all these fat cats having to make compromises with a president who won't sign shit unless it does something for the American people.

You're right, IMO. Trump's crowds' requirement has never really been more hearing what they want to hear, along with dismissing unpleasant facts in front of their faces with the wave of some tiny hands. And I will absolutely vote for Bernie or anyone else whose name isn't Trump. Maybe Bernie has skills he hasn't exhibited, and his MFA moon shot could get a public option crammed through.

If my political priorities were very very different, and I were a racist shithead, I could imagine voting for Trump on principle despite his non-existent track record of actually doing anything.

It would depend on my level of informedness. Of course, to some extent so would the very state of being a racist shithead.
But I can't even imagine looking at and hearing that guy for thirty seconds and NOT knowing he was a cheap fraud.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We need a better physical barrier to deter illegal crossings. We should hire Israelis to do it. They seem to have done a good job with the West Bank wall and the Gaza fence.

I agree. We should just shoot people if they approach the fence like the Israelis do.

People approaching the Israeli border fence are normally either terrorists or sacrifices being used to make Israel look bad. They're not just illegal immigrants.

Furthermore, the Israeli fence works not from being big and strong, but from being backed up by a lot of sensors and firepower. The only places the fence is built strong is where it's built to block snipers, most of it is just meant to slow people down.

 

[Elixir]

We need a better physical barrier to deter illegal crossings. We should hire Israelis to do it. They seem to have done a good job with the West Bank wall and the Gaza fence.

I agree. We should just shoot people if they approach the fence like the Israelis do.

Right - let them take the tunnel, like everyone else!

 

[Jarhyn]

You are going to vote for Trump (probably again) because you don't want your taxes to go up, it's okay to be honest

I would truly appreciate some honesty from Sanders supporters. Why vote for Sandra except that you believe that Trump is the only other option?

I vote for Sanders because I:

1: have empathy for young people who get presented with the option of burdensome debt or burdensome ignorance

2: have empathy for people with high medical bills as a result of for-profit insurance

3: wish to see marijuana legalized, thus ending a large portion of organized crime and arbitrary incarceration

4: wish to see the DNC reorganized against corruption

5: wish to see continued pressure on congress to pass laws that advance society when there is an executive and Senate actually capable of allowing through such legislation.

5: I wish to see an executive who is not a corrupt piece of shit who doesn't really believe anything he campaigns on.

6: I wish to see many people, but YOU in particular cry delicious tears over the fact that progressives are coming to fore in the Democratic party.