Biden administration announces partial student loan forgiveness

[Oleg]

The boundaries between the Executive and Legislative Branches aren't black and white. It is very gray and muddled.

That what W and Trump said.

 

[bilby]

The law is whatever you can pay a lawyer to say it is, unless and until someone persuades a judge to say it's not.

What a country!

I didn't mention, and wasn't talking about, any country in particular.

Basically, that's only one of the two options, with the other being that the law is whatever the guy with a uniform and a gun says it is, unless and until his boss decides it's not. That's the way it is in the shit-hole parts of the world, like Iran, Zimbabwe, Russia, and Florida.

 

[laughing dog]

Congress is supposed to have the power of the purse. Stuff like this should be passed as a law, not as a presidential decree.

This is only true if you don’t like the president. But if you like the president, then Congress shouldn’t get in the way of all his awesome ideas.

Congress has become useless thanks to pre-Civil War level animosity. We have situation where a generation of college grads are running into problems with the high cost of everything, housing is priced well out of their range in many areas... and they need to pay back loans for college degrees that used to be worth more than they are now. Something needs to be done, and typically this comes from Congress. This is a Congress thing. But this, like many other problems (see immigration), the GOP refuses to actually address any of it. Even when W had an immigration plan, the GOP balked.

So that leaves Presidents with a need to fix an on-going problem within the limits of the authority they have. The executive branch has been reaching out further and further, and right now Biden is trying to address an issue within some technical set of limits because this problem needs to be dealt with.

Yep. When you like the president, then separation of powers is an annoying hindrance to be ignored. Yet, one can understand Pelosi jealously guarding the power of the purse. Otherwise, we have dictatorship.

Bullshit. Apparently Mr. Schumer did not share Ms. Pelosi's opinion.

More importantly, the tug of war over where the line of separation of powers exists has been ongoing since the Constitution. And it will continue to do so for as long as there is a Constitution.

 

[Oleg]

Bullshit. Apparently Mr. Schumer did not share Ms. Pelosi's opinion.

Of course, not. He's in the Senate. The Senate does not have the power of the purse. Let Pelsoi suggest that the House decide judicial nominations and Shumer will be playing a diffrent tune.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Bullshit. Apparently Mr. Schumer did not share Ms. Pelosi's opinion.

Of course, not. He's in the Senate. The Senate does not have the power of the purse.

Wha?

Let Pelsoi suggest that the House decide judicial nominations and Shumer will be playing a diffrent tune.

Fuck me! Oleg, who has such strong opinions, doesn't know that both the House and Senate pass spending legislation.

Reminds me of the time I was talking to a guy all about local "States Rights" back when that was the thing for the GOP, and I raised the Articles of Confederation and he had no idea what I was talking about.

 

[laughing dog]

Bullshit. Apparently Mr. Schumer did not share Ms. Pelosi's opinion.

Of course, not. He's in the Senate. The Senate does not have the power of the purse. Let Pelsoi suggest that the House decide judicial nominations and Shumer will be playing a diffrent tune.

Anyone familiar with the US Constitution knows that appropriation bills have to pass the House and the Senate. Yes, the appropriation process has to start in the House, but both chambers hold the power of the purse. So your response is really inept.

More importantly, Congress wrote the language in the act. Congress's language permits the administration to make unilateral adjustments in times of "national emergency" without defining "national emergency". I am not claiming the Biden' administration interpretation is not problematic, but the language as written is pretty open ended to legitimate interpretations. Perhaps Ms. Pelosi and those who feel like her in Congress will pay closer fucking attention to the language in the bills they pass if they truly wish to avoid the SCOTUS from taking advantage of their loosely worded bills.

 

[Toni]

The comment section is full of a lot of angry people who don't want anyone to have loan forgiveness. I find that surprising since most surveys claims there is over 50% support for student loan forgiveness. The article should be available for anyone to read for at least two weeks, according to WaPo's gifting rules.

Includes a bit of resentment from people who endured crippling student debt and don't like the thought of other people getting out easy.

The problem is people who suffered being responsible dislike seeing others get rewarded for irresponsibility.

That makes as much sense as begrudging children the measles vaccine because you suffered the disease as a child. And is less mature.

Did you ever consider that your degree would not be nearly so valuable if everyone followed the same academic path you followed? There would be an over abundance of computer scientists. You’d be bussing tables to make ends meet.

Lots of people had a much rougher time than you or I did, for reasons that were not their fault.

What does society gain from not providing basic necessities to its people—except an out of touch arrogant ruling class and it’s enablers and hangers on?

 

[lpetrich]

The comment section is full of a lot of angry people who don't want anyone to have loan forgiveness. I find that surprising since most surveys claims there is over 50% support for student loan forgiveness. The article should be available for anyone to read for at least two weeks, according to WaPo's gifting rules.

Includes a bit of resentment from people who endured crippling student debt and don't like the thought of other people getting out easy.

The problem is people who suffered being responsible dislike seeing others get rewarded for irresponsibility.

That makes as much sense as begrudging children the measles vaccine because you suffered the disease as a child. And is less mature.

Or like saying that "I was mugged, therefore everybody else ought to be mugged."

 

[southernhybrid]

I'm not against the Biden loan forgiveness, but I have a few friends who never went to college, who always vote for the Democrats, who are very resentful that some people might get loan forgiveness, if Biden's plan survives. I would prefer that loan forgiveness be given first to those who need it the most, who were victims of scams and who are having a difficult time finding jobs in their chosen career fields. If nothing else, the idea that when one declares bankruptcy, their student loans don't apply is wrong, imo. Why should student loans be considered any differently than any other debt? Maybe it would have been better if Biden had simply attempted to change that ruling, for starters.

I've known people who had to declare bankruptcy who didn't have student loans. It was an awful procedure for them, ruining their credit for many years and leaving them with next to nothing. It's cruel, imo, to make desperate people who need to declare bankruptcy, to be stuck with their student loans until the day they die, if they can't afford to pay them off. I've read about people having money taken from their SS entitlement to go towards paying off student loans.

IF SCOTUS overturns Biden's student loan forgiveness program, I'd like to at least see something done about those who are so desperate that they need to declare bankruptcy. Considering how small SS income is, taking some of it away to repay student loans, that were made in the distant past, does seem far more cruel than expecting working age people to at least try to repay their loans. I hope the Democrats can come up with a new plan that will be more acceptable to most people. Sadly, we live in times when hatred and division make it difficult to get anything passed that is based on compassion for those outside the dominant in-group.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The comment section is full of a lot of angry people who don't want anyone to have loan forgiveness. I find that surprising since most surveys claims there is over 50% support for student loan forgiveness. The article should be available for anyone to read for at least two weeks, according to WaPo's gifting rules.

Includes a bit of resentment from people who endured crippling student debt and don't like the thought of other people getting out easy.

The problem is people who suffered being responsible dislike seeing others get rewarded for irresponsibility.

That makes as much sense as begrudging children the measles vaccine because you suffered the disease as a child. And is less mature.

Would I have preferred to not need to pay back my college loans? I suppose, could have spent that money on stuff. But of course, the US 25 years ago ain't what it is today. Housing isn't as affordable, stock market already made its boom, health care costs are through the roof. And that doesn't take into account the employment contraction changing management styles because of the Great Recession.

I get tired of the "but when I was young" bullshit. When people were young, things were different.

The question to ask is the outlay by the government for forgiving the loans going to provide a net benefit to the damn economy. Not whether some person in their 50s thinks it is "fair".

 

[Toni]

The comment section is full of a lot of angry people who don't want anyone to have loan forgiveness. I find that surprising since most surveys claims there is over 50% support for student loan forgiveness. The article should be available for anyone to read for at least two weeks, according to WaPo's gifting rules.

Includes a bit of resentment from people who endured crippling student debt and don't like the thought of other people getting out easy.

The problem is people who suffered being responsible dislike seeing others get rewarded for irresponsibility.

That makes as much sense as begrudging children the measles vaccine because you suffered the disease as a child. And is less mature.

Would I have preferred to not need to pay back my college loans? I suppose, could have spent that money on stuff. But of course, the US 25 years ago ain't what it is today. Housing isn't as affordable, stock market already made its boom, health care costs are through the roof. And that doesn't take into account the employment contraction changing management styles because of the Great Recession.

I get tired of the "but when I was young" bullshit. When people were young, things were different.

The question to ask is the outlay by the government for forgiving the loans going to provide a net benefit to the damn economy. Not whether some person in their 50s thinks it is "fair".

Well, this person who will never see her fifties again, who remembers believing we'd never be able to afford a home because interest rates were over 18% (not a typo), whose spouse's student loan repayment amounted to $15/month, whose family did without a lot of stuff in order to pay for the overwhelming majority of our kids' college education thinks that student loan forgiveness is not just necessary for the sake of the economy but necessary and just.

College should be affordable for all students. So should medical school and law school and vet school and dentist school and those Ph.D's for physical therapy and pharmacy and so on. And yes, it includes trade schools. We need more plumbers, more electricians, more carpenters, etc. Affordable means free for a most and cheap for everyone else. I won't break my heart if rich kids get free tuition. Tax their parents accordingly!

I'm grateful that my kids and you and your kids and everybody's kids did not have to do without the things I did without! And their parents should not have to kill themselves working in order to have indoor plumbing, vaccines against preventable illnesses, electricity, safe roads, safe transportation, health care, child care, etc. A lot of other countries have this figured out better than we seem to be willing to grow up and embrace. Our founders were both visionary and at the same time limited by the norms of their day. They did not see a need for women or persons of color to have equal rights and freedoms as white male landowners. We've grown up somewhat in that regard. We need to grow all the way up and extend the rights and privileges to every citizen and to to strive to live up to our highest ideals.

In order to have a free and just society, a functioning democracy and republic, we must have a well educated population.

 

[southernhybrid]

So, where do we go from here, if SCOTUS overturns Biden's loan forgiveness plan? That's the real question at hand.

And, please stop making biased comments about past generations. You don't know what it was like to live in the past, unless you experienced it first hand. Each generation has its own set of hardships and barriers to deal with and it doesn't help to criticize those who are members of previous or current generations for that matter. I was going to write some of the things that Toni did, but couldn't decide if it would matter. The point is that previous generations had it hard too. We all dealt with different things, but each generation has barriers to overcome and young people never have it very easy, assuming they aren't the children of the ultra wealthy. I just don't remember ever complaining about not making much money, having to pay off student loans, having to pay very high interest rates on a mortgage, or losing money on homes we bought etc. We just did the best we could to get by, even if it meant we had to live on low wages until we got enough experience to manage a middle class lifestyle.

Of course, education should be affordable. That is currently a big problem in the US. Plus, we need to value those who have the skill to be plumbers, mechanics, electricians etc. Imo, one of the reasons why the Democrats have lost so much support from the so called working class is because the more formally educated have looked down on these folks. There are all kinds of professions. Some require hands on talent and skills, while others require intellectual skills. Both are very important, but let's be honest, the person who has a Phd may be totally clueless when it comes to fixing an electrical outlet, replacing plumbing pipes or repairing a car that has many technical parts or doing what techies would call a simple computer repair. We need to stop acting as if the only professionals are those who have college degrees. I'm not claiming that anyone here considers themselves above such people, but the perception is that the so called liberal elites look down on those who don't have college degrees. That needs to stop!

 

[Copernicus]

So, where do we go from here, if SCOTUS overturns Biden's loan forgiveness plan? That's the real question at hand.

We go right back to the way things were before Biden took his emergency action to forgive student loans. That means that you can't discharge the loan through bankruptcy unless you can prove an "undue hardship" on yourself and dependents. This criterion for loan discharge is more difficult to prove than discharge of other loans in bankruptcy proceedings. So those burdened with these loans will face crushing debt.

I understand that there are those without student loans who are struggling to make ends meet, and Republicans will use that fact to build resentment in those people. Political zealots thrive on playing groups of people off against each other by promoting the sense of victimhood in those they seek votes from. If you are a Republican, then students are viewed as people prone to leftist "woke" politics that feel entitled to government handouts. They are portrayed as looking down on those without an education, and it is very easy to find examples of some students and academics expressing that kind of arrogance. Generally speaking, however, I don't think that the stereotype is any more realistic than racial or gender stereotypes.

I'm not claiming that anyone here considers themselves above such people, but the perception is that the so called liberal elites look down on those who don't have college degrees. That needs to stop!

I don't think it is possible to stop the perception thoroughly, and right wing propaganda outlets will do everything they can to keep that perception alive. It wins votes for right wing candidates in elections. What Democrats need to do is fight against the rhetoric that promotes the perception, but I don't think they are usually good at framing their messages. Right wingers have an easier time playing the hate card.

 

[southernhybrid]

The bankruptcy thing is what bothers me the most. It's cruel that some older adults who live on SS are having some of their SS entitlement taken to pay off loans that they made, hoping to be better off financially. It's even more disturbing that some of these loans were made to take courses at schools that were a scam. People make mistakes all the time, and people who have been manipulated by some of these very expensive schools shouldn't be punished for their mistakes. Most older adults have enough difficulty maintaining their living expenses, but forcing them to pay off student loans is an outrage, imo.

 

[Toni]

The bankruptcy thing is what bothers me the most. It's cruel that some older adults who live on SS are having some of their SS entitlement taken to pay off loans that they made, hoping to be better off financially. It's even more disturbing that some of these loans were made to take courses at schools that were a scam. People make mistakes all the time, and people who have been manipulated by some of these very expensive schools shouldn't be punished for their mistakes. Most older adults have enough difficulty maintaining their living expenses, but forcing them to pay off student loans is an outrage, imo.

No: SS is NOT being used to pay off student loans.

 

[Worldtraveller]

The comment section is full of a lot of angry people who don't want anyone to have loan forgiveness. I find that surprising since most surveys claims there is over 50% support for student loan forgiveness. The article should be available for anyone to read for at least two weeks, according to WaPo's gifting rules.

Includes a bit of resentment from people who endured crippling student debt and don't like the thought of other people getting out easy.

The problem is people who suffered being responsible dislike seeing others get rewarded for irresponsibility.

So? Those people can fuck right off.

If you think "I suffered through this and turned out ok" means others should also have to suffer, then you did not, in fact, turn out ok.

 

[Oleg]

So? Those people can fuck right off.

The progressive distain for personal responsibility shines on.

 

[ZiprHead]

So? Those people can fuck right off.

The progressive distain for personal responsibility shines on.

Tell that to Fox News.

 

[Politesse]

So? Those people can fuck right off.

The progressive distain for personal responsibility shines on.

Yup. Accountability can only be fair or reasonable in a system that also makes equal opportunity a paramount virtue. In a country where some people can laugh off the cost of college education as a minor expense while for others it is the second greatest financial risk they will ever have the opportunity to take, "responsibility" is just a word. True responsibility is measured by how you use the things you have, not how much you have.

 

[laughing dog]

So? Those people can fuck right off.

The progressive distain for personal responsibility shines on.

Better tell Trump he’s a progressive.