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Bill Nye Tours The Ark Encounter

What a twit Ham is.

It's interesting to watch his body language and mannerisms during this. Is badgering the right word? You can just tell that he's defensive about the whole thing and I think it's because deep down he knows he has nothing to stand on for these claims.

Reading his FB and twitter posts, there are times when it seems he's just posting drunk. He repeats the same shit over and over again, sometimes at odd hours of the night. Maybe that's just his attempt at brainwashing his followers?

Then he has audacity to turn everything around. You point out there is no evidence for a biblical claim, he'll turn around and say you have no evidence in the alternative scientific explanation. It's like big game of "I know you are but what am I?". You tell him I.D. is just a religious belief? oops, now Evolutionary theory is "just a religion".

And after all this money he conned people out of for building that stupid ark, and the money he got from the govt (almost free land, tax incentives, the TIF), he is STILL asking people to donate MORE money to him so he can expand the place! Can you imagine if after paying $95 a pop to get into DisneyLand, they asked you for more so they could build new exhibits?

But what REALLY torques me off about him and his org is that they are targeting young gullible kids. And now trying to get teachers to come this his "answers" conference. He should be locked up, or deported back to Australia.
 
I got the feeling at about the 20 minute mark Bill Nye wanted to punch him in the face.
 
Do you think in some cases people who are offered evidence for evolution over and over again and will not accept it might just be mentally ill. Seriously. They are ill mentally and cannot see past their delusions.
 
BH said:
Do you think in some cases people who are offered evidence for evolution over and over again and will not accept it might just be mentally ill. Seriously. They are ill mentally and cannot see past their delusions.
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No, but I do believe that people who speak and pray too an invisible man in the sky based on nothing more than a story book might be mentally ill and cannot see past their delusions.
 
BH said:
Do you think in some cases people who are offered evidence for evolution over and over again and will not accept it might just be mentally ill. Seriously. They are ill mentally and cannot see past their delusions.
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They are trolling you, laughing while actual scientists and people who tell the truth do the hard work, but are constrained by ethics when they are not constrained by law.

Nobody is stupid enough to believe creationism in the face of all the lies they see... A monkey will deceive other monkeys to gain an advantage, a mentally challenged person will pretend belief in Jesus to gain an advantage. A socially disenfranchised, intelligent person will hate all lies used to maintain power over them because lies are used by the corrupt as an excuse to enslave them... It's just the way it is.
 
It is astonishing that anyone can stay very committed to this sort of thing. I was a YEC at 14-15yo, and very intent on trying to be a devout Christian and upstanding member of my church. But, it started niggling at me anyway. No dinosaurs? That got me scratching my chin, as a 15yo who’d loved dinosaurs all his childhood. But especially the non-explanations. For example “How is it that they find all those dinosaur bones?” Answer from my science teacher (I was in a private religious school): “They don’t”. The dogmatic ‘tude was noted and resented. I suppose cleverer YEC teachers would have had a story to explain the fossils, but the thing about preferring stories to facts (which I think is a big part of why believers believe) is the stories do at least have to have an internal consistency, even if they’re implausible stories. Observe fans of fantasy fiction complaining at some plot hole… The inconsistency can wreck the suspension of disbelief and that's vexing both when you know it’s a fiction and when you don’t.

Clearly it’s the dire fear of sin and punishment combined with a promise of redemption from it that helps keep people committed to a story that somewhere deep inside they must be doubtful about. Notice whenever Nye addresses people in the crowd, Ham quickly follows up with talk about sin… kind of a reminder “Don’t disbelieve this! You’re soul is at stake!”

But what he’s doing that’s probably especially effective is filling out the details of a vague, droll old story and making a participatory experience of it. If these kids had fun planetariums and interactive science museums where “the grand epic of evolution” and “the universe story” were told in relatable ways, where it’s apparent that all life is close kin, that the cosmos is marvelously creative even if un-minded and you're deeply integral with it all, that you can have a deeper sense of belonging and empathy and expansive sense of family, and so we’re not like alien spirits stuck temporarily into bodies as a tribulation before we get to escape this "fallen" nature into a nebulous Beyond, that would help a lot. Nye’s got facts, and he’s got advice to go to university some day to learn something difficult and esoteric-seeming to become less ignorant… and that that didn't inspire and stir up any enthusiasm should be no surprise.
 
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Kosh said:
What a twit Ham is.

It's interesting to watch his body language and mannerisms during this. Is badgering the right word? You can just tell that he's defensive about the whole thing and I think it's because deep down he knows he has nothing to stand on for these claims. .
Click to expand...
I think he believes in the claims, at least the conclusions. But he's very aware that he has to have complete control of the discussion in order to make sure people come to the right conclusions.
He can't compete on an evidence-for-evidence platform, so he makes sure the discussion is about opinions, and making opinions equivalent, and making sure the Biblical story is considered alongside the fossil story.
 
BH said:
Do you think in some cases people who are offered evidence for evolution over and over again and will not accept it might just be mentally ill. Seriously. They are ill mentally and cannot see past their delusions.
Click to expand...

Mostly, I just think they're stupid.

The whole thing seems to be argumentum ad incredulity (sp?), fueled by his deliberately confusing pseudoscience.
 
Keith&Co. said:
Kosh said:
What a twit Ham is.

It's interesting to watch his body language and mannerisms during this. Is badgering the right word? You can just tell that he's defensive about the whole thing and I think it's because deep down he knows he has nothing to stand on for these claims. .
Click to expand...
I think he believes in the claims, at least the conclusions. But he's very aware that he has to have complete control of the discussion in order to make sure people come to the right conclusions.
He can't compete on an evidence-for-evidence platform, so he makes sure the discussion is about opinions, and making opinions equivalent, and making sure the Biblical story is considered alongside the fossil story.
Click to expand...
Yep. And that works with stupid people.
 
Kosh said:
DrZoidberg said:
I don't like Bill Nye. He has zero charm. He's also not all that clever. Give me Dawkins any day of the week.
.
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So true, Dawkins+Hitchens batting cleanup.
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I didn't like Hitchens either. Sure, he's smart. But he's a real dick. That gives him no points as far as I'm concerned. Dawkins at least knows how to treat people
 
DrZoidberg said:
Kosh said:
So true, Dawkins+Hitchens batting cleanup.
Click to expand...

I didn't like Hitchens either. Sure, he's smart. But he's a real dick. That gives him no points as far as I'm concerned. Dawkins at least knows how to treat people
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With a guy like Ham intellect and intelligence is out the window. You need to be quick and clever, hit back line for line, word for word. That's where Nye fails because Nye is used to working from a prepared script. Ham has him on the ropes ten seconds into the video.

Did Nye think he was going to accomplish anything speaking intelligently? If so that's where Nye failed. You have to approach a guy like Ham as if you're speaking to a spoiled brat with an attitude. Of course you don't come out swinging but you have to be prepared to swing back. Seems like Nye had neither a strategy nor a tactical plan.
 
joedad said:
DrZoidberg said:
I didn't like Hitchens either. Sure, he's smart. But he's a real dick. That gives him no points as far as I'm concerned. Dawkins at least knows how to treat people
Click to expand...
With a guy like Ham intellect and intelligence is out the window. You need to be quick and clever, hit back line for line, word for word. That's where Nye fails because Nye is used to working from a prepared script. Ham has him on the ropes ten seconds into the video.

Did Nye think he was going to accomplish anything speaking intelligently? If so that's where Nye failed. You have to approach a guy like Ham as if you're speaking to a spoiled brat with an attitude. Of course you don't come out swinging but you have to be prepared to swing back. Seems like Nye had neither a strategy nor a tactical plan.
Click to expand...

It looked like he just couldn't believe how stupid the questions were. "Yes, we're animals". Even Hambone shouldn't have an issue with that .
 
Kosh said:
What a twit Ham is.

It's interesting to watch his body language and mannerisms during this. Is badgering the right word? You can just tell that he's defensive about the whole thing and I think it's because deep down he knows he has nothing to stand on for these claims.

Reading his FB and twitter posts, there are times when it seems he's just posting drunk. He repeats the same shit over and over again, sometimes at odd hours of the night. Maybe that's just his attempt at brainwashing his followers?

Then he has audacity to turn everything around. You point out there is no evidence for a biblical claim, he'll turn around and say you have no evidence in the alternative scientific explanation. It's like big game of "I know you are but what am I?". You tell him I.D. is just a religious belief? oops, now Evolutionary theory is "just a religion".

And after all this money he conned people out of for building that stupid ark, and the money he got from the govt (almost free land, tax incentives, the TIF), he is STILL asking people to donate MORE money to him so he can expand the place! Can you imagine if after paying $95 a pop to get into DisneyLand, they asked you for more so they could build new exhibits?

But what REALLY torques me off about him and his org is that they are targeting young gullible kids. And now trying to get teachers to come this his "answers" conference. He should be locked up, or deported back to Australia.
Click to expand...

He's angry. He has connected evolution with moral evil. Hence his "we're just animals" line spouted ad nauseum. What separates animals from humans in his eyes is to make moral judgments. He denies other animals make them, and that like other social functions, this is an area where the human species of animal excels as opposed to being the fastest or strongest. He HAS to shoehorn this in at all costs or heaven in beyond reach; there is only eternal suffering.

There are a lot of creationists I doubt. Ham is a true believer though. Horribly wrong, and a life wasted in my view, but sincere.
 
Kosh said:
joedad said:
With a guy like Ham intellect and intelligence is out the window. You need to be quick and clever, hit back line for line, word for word. That's where Nye fails because Nye is used to working from a prepared script. Ham has him on the ropes ten seconds into the video.

Did Nye think he was going to accomplish anything speaking intelligently? If so that's where Nye failed. You have to approach a guy like Ham as if you're speaking to a spoiled brat with an attitude. Of course you don't come out swinging but you have to be prepared to swing back. Seems like Nye had neither a strategy nor a tactical plan.
Click to expand...

It looked like he just couldn't believe how stupid the questions were. "Yes, we're animals". Even Hambone shouldn't have an issue with that .
Click to expand...

Yes, Ken Ham does not want humans to be considered animals. Creationists need a wide gap between humans and the rest of the Animal Kingdom, or else much of their theology falls apart. Humans lose their special status in the eyes of God, the concept of a "soul" loses credibility, etc.

The last thing Ken Ham wants is for us to think of ourselves as intelligent apes.
 
Kosh said:
joedad said:
With a guy like Ham intellect and intelligence is out the window. You need to be quick and clever, hit back line for line, word for word. That's where Nye fails because Nye is used to working from a prepared script. Ham has him on the ropes ten seconds into the video.

Did Nye think he was going to accomplish anything speaking intelligently? If so that's where Nye failed. You have to approach a guy like Ham as if you're speaking to a spoiled brat with an attitude. Of course you don't come out swinging but you have to be prepared to swing back. Seems like Nye had neither a strategy nor a tactical plan.
Click to expand...

It looked like he just couldn't believe how stupid the questions were. "Yes, we're animals". Even Hambone shouldn't have an issue with that .
Click to expand...
That was my take too. Stupidity, especially willful stupidity can be frustrating without a way to deal with it, and you deal with it differently if the person is 53 and not 3.

Nye should have said something like, "Kenny, I'm with you. I wish animals wouldn't do stupid things like drop bombs on each other, stab each other, commit genocide on each other, kill each other's offspring. I wish they were all like us because we don't do those things, do we Kenny?"

And then Nye needed to keep the pressure on because Hambone will go bust pretty quick.

That would have been my approach.
 
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