Bill Nye Tours The Ark Encounter

[none]

ken threw out the dna is language argument right off the bat and bill looked stunned, not sure bill had heard of the dna is language argument

Simply DNA doesn't have symbols, no more a code than a depression is code for a puddle
Too bad because ham looks like he 'won' on that one due to bill letting him go without question or rebuttal
Apologists seem to love that when they say something crazy and they stun people, that is a victory...sad

 

[James Brown]

Nye should have said something like, "Kenny, I'm with you. I wish animals wouldn't do stupid things like drop bombs on each other, stab each other, commit genocide on each other, kill each other's offspring. I wish they were all like us because we don't do those things, do we Kenny?"

Only we do those things because of our sinful nature, as it says in the Bible. [/creationist]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nye should have said something like, "Kenny, I'm with you. I wish animals wouldn't do stupid things like drop bombs on each other, stab each other, commit genocide on each other, kill each other's offspring. I wish they were all like us because we don't do those things, do we Kenny?"

Only we do those things because of our sinful nature, as it says in the Bible. [/creationist]

Many of us have been down this road. It is a dead end. You can be right, you can make the better argument, but in a "debate" in person or online or television it is never about truth, but appearance (and just the right amount of obfuscation) (see US Presidential Debates and election outcome).

In arguing publicly, you risk making them look witty, unless you really know what you are doing.

 

[James Brown]

Yes, with enough Gish Gallops and Motivational-Poster-Platitudes, one can "win" any debate, regardless of one's command of the subject.

 

[Kosh]

ken threw out the dna is language argument right off the bat and bill looked stunned, not sure bill had heard of the dna is language argument

Simply DNA doesn't have symbols, no more a code than a depression is code for a puddle

Right, just simple chemistry that starts with what, 4 different molecules ? (RNA). That's the thing they can't grasp, how simple it all really is at the bottom level.

 

[DrZoidberg]

ken threw out the dna is language argument right off the bat and bill looked stunned, not sure bill had heard of the dna is language argument

Simply DNA doesn't have symbols, no more a code than a depression is code for a puddle
Too bad because ham looks like he 'won' on that one due to bill letting him go without question or rebuttal
Apologists seem to love that when they say something crazy and they stun people, that is a victory...sad

Creationists are Sophists. If you want to win a debate against them, you need to train like a Sophist. Just being correct isn't good enough

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

ken threw out the dna is language argument right off the bat and bill looked stunned, not sure bill had heard of the dna is language argument

Simply DNA doesn't have symbols, no more a code than a depression is code for a puddle
Too bad because ham looks like he 'won' on that one due to bill letting him go without question or rebuttal
Apologists seem to love that when they say something crazy and they stun people, that is a victory...sad

Creationists are Sophists. If you want to win a debate against them, you need to train like a Sophist. Just being correct isn't good enough

You will never "win" a debate with a moron. At best you can piss them off and make them lose their cool. If Nye had any thoughts about teaching Ham anything then Nye is an idiot for thinking that.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Creationists are Sophists. If you want to win a debate against them, you need to train like a Sophist. Just being correct isn't good enough

You will never "win" a debate with a moron. At best you can piss them off and make them lose their cool. If Nye had any thoughts about teaching Ham anything then Nye is an idiot for thinking that.

Of course he wasn't trying to convince is opponent. That's not what sophistry about. It's to convince the audience. But I don't think he did a good job of that either.

 

[ronburgundy]

It looked like he just couldn't believe how stupid the questions were. "Yes, we're animals". Even Hambone shouldn't have an issue with that .

Yes, Ken Ham does not want humans to be considered animals. Creationists need a wide gap between humans and the rest of the Animal Kingdom, or else much of their theology falls apart. Humans lose their special status in the eyes of God, the concept of a "soul" loses credibility, etc.

The last thing Ken Ham wants is for us to think of ourselves as intelligent apes.

Yes, which is actually why creationists are arguably more honest and internally coherent than "moderate" theists who claim to accept evolution, or even than many atheists (like Tyson or Gould) who deny their atheism and claim that science has no bearing on religious ideas and thus there is no contradiction.

Creationists correctly understand that evolution and other science does not merely conflict with literal Bible interpretation. It conflicts with the most fundamental notions of what God is, what his powers are, what the nature of humanity is and God's special affection for us, the soul, and any notion that our conscious mind or anything about our "self" that we value will survive biological death.

Creationism is not really about being wed to literal Bible interpretation. It's about being wed to a notion of the origins of life and especially human life and consciousness that is compatible with these core concepts underlying virtually all monotheism. It doesn't really have to be exactly what the Bible says, but it sure as hell cannot be what evolution and other biological and psychological science says.

Moderate, non-literal theists who claim to accept evolution do so via actively suppressing any thought about what evolution actually entails and implies. Rarely do they actually accept the science completely, only at the most vague level. They add God into the mix in ways (such as deliberately causing non-random genetic variations) that are at odds with the science.

On the one hand, creationists rejection of virtually all science related to evolution and the biological basis of "mind" requires a level of delusion that resembles insanity. But there is a sincerity about it that I almost prefer to that of non-creationist theists who engage in even greater levels of intellectual dishonesty and accept just enough "science" to pretend they are being rational so they can point to the creationists as the nutters.

 

[Kosh]

On the one hand, creationists rejection of virtually all science related to evolution and the biological basis of "mind" requires a level of delusion that resembles insanity. But there is a sincerity about it that I almost prefer to that of non-creationist theists who engage in even greater levels of intellectual dishonesty and accept just enough "science" to pretend they are being rational so they can point to the creationists as the nutters.

So very true. I agree with Hambone on exactly one thing. "If one part of the Bible isn't true , then any of it could be untrue"

He just isn't smart (or honest) enough to follow that to the correct conclusion.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

You will never "win" a debate with a moron. At best you can piss them off and make them lose their cool. If Nye had any thoughts about teaching Ham anything then Nye is an idiot for thinking that.

Of course he wasn't trying to convince is opponent. That's not what sophistry about. It's to convince the audience. But I don't think he did a good job of that either.

I'd like to experience a Ham brain for about an hour to be able to know how it operates. It must operate high on the emotional end, to the point that intellect is tamped down. I also suspect there is a great deal of fear operating as opposed to confidence that comes with knowledge.

You've got to remember natural selection and how it operates with a Ham. All the Hams that thought they could fly from the tops of cliffs are dead along with their potential offspring. What's left are the Hams we have today. These Hams no longer launch themselves from clifftops but merely say they can because god yadda yadda yadda.

 

[arcadia]

Wait 'til some Muslim group claims and enforces a right to get the government to help pay for and erect a large monument to Mohammed;s night flight on a white horse to the Mosque on the wailing wall. Then we will find out how conservatives really feel about separation of church and state. Public funding of Madrassa-style charter schools will be interesting, too.

 

[Elixir]

I'd like to experience a Ham brain for about an hour to be able to know how it operates.

I think five minutes would suffice. You might find that you'd have to extend your definition of "operates" though.

 

[Kosh]

I'd like to experience a Ham brain for about an hour to be able to know how it operates.

I think five minutes would suffice. You might find that you'd have to extend your definition of "operates" though.

He is really whining about nye this week. You can tell that criticism really gets under his skin.

To quote Shakespeare: "I think he dost protest too much"

 

[Kosh]

I'd like to experience a Ham brain for about an hour to be able to know how it operates. It must operate high on the emotional end, to the point that intellect is tamped down. I also suspect there is a great deal of fear operating as opposed to confidence that comes with knowledge.

I suspect it it is mostly profit motivated

 

[Rayschism]

Bill Nye raped my childhood.

 

[Kosh]

Bill Nye raped my childhood.

You can turn off a TV, but you can't turn off a rapist.

 

[Jobar]

Creationists correctly understand that evolution and other science does not merely conflict with literal Bible interpretation. It conflicts with the most fundamental notions of what God is, what his powers are, what the nature of humanity is and God's special affection for us, the soul, and any notion that our conscious mind or anything about our "self" that we value will survive biological death.

 

[Jason the Rationalist]

I hadn't really appreciated before just how inarticulate Ham is. I think this may be the first time I've watched him in action. I found myself cringing every other sentence. His attempts to throw Nye off the scent from time to time by chucking some half-baked god themed question or postulate in the ring are really quite embarrassing. You might be forgiven for thinking that he's aiming to elicit sympathy for the intellectual bashing he's taking but I'm bordering more on him trying to make a full roast for 20 using a fish finger and some twine.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You seem to forget that Ham isn't there to convince you, but maintain others.