Black Guns Matter

[Crazy Eddie]

That's liberal crap. Rarely is deescalation an option

Deescalation is always an option. It isn't always successful.

Its success rate is zero for officers who do not attempt to exercise it.

This isn't a matter of ego. This is a matter of maintaining law and order. You are taking the side of lawbreaker over the guy stopping him from breaking the law.

Black lives matter more than punishing jaywalkers.

If you want a functioning society the cops have to escalate when they meet resistance! To do otherwise is to hand society over to the thugs.

Incorrect. Not every or all or even MOST violations of the law is a deliberate threat to organized society by "the thugs." Most such cases are minor infractions of safety practices and are not even jailable offenses; society would be just as safe if the police officer failed to NOTICE those violations.

The role of a police officer in his interactions is to establish ORDER, not dominance. The former is most often achieved by taking a step back and giving your suspect a couple of minutes to calm the fuck down so you can conduct your business peacefully. Escalation in response to people being pissed at you just makes them more pissed at you and less cooperative. Since the goal of a police action is to OBTAIN cooperation, escalation in response to belligerence is actually the best way to guarantee that doesn't happen.

The problem is you want an impossible situation.

No, I want the situation that has been created by every police department in the country whose officers demonstrate a modicum of respect for their communities and a bare minimum of competency. There ARE departments in this country that have managed to pull this off, by diffusing conflict whenever possible and resorting to force only when all other avenues fail. Their performance stands in stark contrast to the shit departments that take a combative stance with their community in even the simplest of interactions and have a tendency to turn even the simplest encounters into potential shootings.

The blacks don't need to change the police, the blacks need to change themselves.

"The blacks" don't need to change a goddamn thing except for the standards in which our lives actually matter.

And to be clear: black lives matter ALOT more than your ignorant, self-important ramblings about how they ought to live their lives

If you're rational and behave reasonably the threat of being shot by the police is approximately zero.

It is not the sworn duty of civilians to maintain rational thought and reasonable behavior in the presence of police officers; it IS the sworn duty of police officers to maintain rational thought and reasonable behavior in the presence of civilians.

And here you're utterly wrong. Threatening someone with a firearm without justification

He was perfectly justified, even in your made-up theory. He thought the guys stalking him were criminals and he showed them he was armed. They went away.

Of course, your theory is still bullshit since the police didn't actually report seeing a weapon; they initially claimed they were raiding his car because they thought he was smoking weed.

The cops don't just go rousting random people and shooting them.

Of course they do. That's exactly what happened to Chris Roupe and Levar Jones.

Black lives matter more than your idiotic fantasies of the infallibility of police officers.

The only reason for it to go before a judge would be to convict him.

That's not how the legal system works. Suspects are innocent until proven guilty.

OTOH, in cities and districts where they don't tolerate that shit, where corrupt cops get served up on a platter as soon as they're discovered, where cops who abuse their power or shoot people unnecessarily are thrown off the force immediately and/or prosecuted, you don't see a lot of protests. In fact, in those communities you see more people rallying behind their police departments, because they trust the officers who protect them to act honorably, because they know that if their police officers really screw up and hurt someone, they'll admit it, they'll own it, and they'll do what they can to fix it.

The problem is you are saying there are bad cops because you don't understand they were acting properly.

I'm saying there are bad cops because there are bad cops. I'm saying that MANY of the cases BLM is protesting are, in fact, caused by bad cops being bad cops.

Black lives matter more than your delusion that bad cops don't exist.

But they have the same rights as any other citizen.

Nor should they. They're in a position of EXTREME responsibility and have greater power than the average citizen; that they give up certain rights is understood in the job description.

In other words, all you have to do to be immune from the law is be tough.

The police are not the law, therefore not being forced to submit to a police officer for five minutes is not going to nullify the law.

Authority is absolute; dominance is fleeting. Black lives matter more than insecure police officers (or you, for that matter) feeling the need to establish dominance over black people.

The DA didn't charge Zimmerman because he knew it wasn't a good case. Charges were later brought because the media (remember that edited audio tape??) and the agitators made such an issue out of it. Personally I think that DA should have gone to jail for that.

Interesting that you didn't think ZIMMERMAN should have gone to jail for stalking and murdering a neighborhood kid. But that's your racism on full display, as usual.

Black lives matter more than your desire to protect people who kill them for no good reason

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The case that comes to mind that illustrates this best: A guy finds a guy on top of his wife having sex with her. She screams rape. He shoots the "rapist". Turns out it was consensual. He walks, she goes to jail for manslaughter.)

You know what DOESN'T happen in that kind of case? If the police, on investigating and learning the sex was consensual, decide to get together one night and rape the guy's wife as punishment for lying.

Why am I using that as an example? Because the police are not in the business of finding guilt or innocence OR deciding someone's punishment. Prosecutors and courts are supposed to do that. Thus, in this case, if the police decide that the woman MAY have been lying about the sex and thus putting her paramour in danger, they put her on trial and see if they can prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Black lives matter more than police officers wanting to be above the law.

You're moving the goalposts.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Trayvon Martin certainly was the aggressor.

You confuse your opinion with fact.

Purple drank has nothing to do with it.

f purple drank had nothing to do with it, then why did you introduce it into the discussions?

I'm not the one that introduced it.

He applied schoolyard thug rules to adult life, oops.

Actually, Zimmerman did. But, of course, you did not miss an opportunity to characterize a black shooting victim as a thug.

Zimmerman followed. Stupid but not criminal. Martin attacked, criminal.

I don't see anything thuggish with Tamir Rice. What he learned from his mother was to avoid the cops. He's not the first person that got shot ditching contraband (he had been warned the lack of an orange tip made the "gun" illegal), he won't be the last.

Nope. You wrote he learned thuggish behavior from his mom.

But your responses simply proved my observation - you are more interested in persecution (justifying the deaths of unarmed black victims) than justice.

I'm interested in understanding what happened. You can't hope to fix a problem other than by blind luck until you understand it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Deescalation is always an option. It isn't always successful.

Its success rate is zero for officers who do not attempt to exercise it.

What you fail to understand is the timeframe. Most of these go down in a few seconds.

Furthermore, in liberal-speak, "deescalate" generally amounts to let the bad guy go. That's not the option I agree with.

This isn't a matter of ego. This is a matter of maintaining law and order. You are taking the side of lawbreaker over the guy stopping him from breaking the law.

Black lives matter more than punishing jaywalkers.

Yup, the same thing I saw before--you would prefer that blacks not be made to obey the law.

If you want a functioning society the cops have to escalate when they meet resistance! To do otherwise is to hand society over to the thugs.

Incorrect. Not every or all or even MOST violations of the law is a deliberate threat to organized society by "the thugs." Most such cases are minor infractions of safety practices and are not even jailable offenses; society would be just as safe if the police officer failed to NOTICE those violations.

Once again, you want immunity from the law.

How about if Michael Brown had robbed you? Would you care?

Also, there's two more factors:

1) Broken windows. Let lesser crime slide and you see worse crime.

2) The police know that someone who commits one crime is far more likely to commit others than the average person on the street.

The role of a police officer in his interactions is to establish ORDER, not dominance. The former is most often achieved by taking a step back and giving your suspect a couple of minutes to calm the fuck down so you can conduct your business peacefully. Escalation in response to people being pissed at you just makes them more pissed at you and less cooperative. Since the goal of a police action is to OBTAIN cooperation, escalation in response to belligerence is actually the best way to guarantee that doesn't happen.

If he allows a loss of dominance he can't establish order.

The problem is you want an impossible situation.

No, I want the situation that has been created by every police department in the country whose officers demonstrate a modicum of respect for their communities and a bare minimum of competency. There ARE departments in this country that have managed to pull this off, by diffusing conflict whenever possible and resorting to force only when all other avenues fail. Their performance stands in stark contrast to the shit departments that take a combative stance with their community in even the simplest of interactions and have a tendency to turn even the simplest encounters into potential shootings.

Does it ever occur to you that the communities might differ in other respects?

The blacks don't need to change the police, the blacks need to change themselves.

"The blacks" don't need to change a goddamn thing except for the standards in which our lives actually matter.

And to be clear: black lives matter ALOT more than your ignorant, self-important ramblings about how they ought to live their lives

They're bringing it upon themselves.

If you're rational and behave reasonably the threat of being shot by the police is approximately zero.

It is not the sworn duty of civilians to maintain rational thought and reasonable behavior in the presence of police officers; it IS the sworn duty of police officers to maintain rational thought and reasonable behavior in the presence of civilians.

No--everyone is expected to not threaten others.

And here you're utterly wrong. Threatening someone with a firearm without justification

He was perfectly justified, even in your made-up theory. He thought the guys stalking him were criminals and he showed them he was armed. They went away.

The problem is that the conditions for use of force have not been reached. He was in the wrong.

Of course, your theory is still bullshit since the police didn't actually report seeing a weapon; they initially claimed they were raiding his car because they thought he was smoking weed.

That's not the report I saw.

The only reason for it to go before a judge would be to convict him.

That's not how the legal system works. Suspects are innocent until proven guilty.

Except in your world cops are guilty until proven innocent.

I'm saying there are bad cops because there are bad cops. I'm saying that MANY of the cases BLM is protesting are, in fact, caused by bad cops being bad cops.

Bad cop = did something to a black.

But they have the same rights as any other citizen.

Nor should they. They're in a position of EXTREME responsibility and have greater power than the average citizen; that they give up certain rights is understood in the job description.

No. They give up no rights by being cops.

In other words, all you have to do to be immune from the law is be tough.

The police are not the law, therefore not being forced to submit to a police officer for five minutes is not going to nullify the law.

But it won't be just once. If they never have to submit the law is nullified. You're focused on the tree, you can't see the forest.

The DA didn't charge Zimmerman because he knew it wasn't a good case. Charges were later brought because the media (remember that edited audio tape??) and the agitators made such an issue out of it. Personally I think that DA should have gone to jail for that.

Interesting that you didn't think ZIMMERMAN should have gone to jail for stalking and murdering a neighborhood kid. But that's your racism on full display, as usual.

Note that the jury didn't convict.

Black lives matter more than your desire to protect people who kill them for no good reason

Your inability to understand the reason doesn't make it no exist.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

You know what DOESN'T happen in that kind of case? If the police, on investigating and learning the sex was consensual, decide to get together one night and rape the guy's wife as punishment for lying.

Why am I using that as an example? Because the police are not in the business of finding guilt or innocence OR deciding someone's punishment. Prosecutors and courts are supposed to do that. Thus, in this case, if the police decide that the woman MAY have been lying about the sex and thus putting her paramour in danger, they put her on trial and see if they can prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Black lives matter more than police officers wanting to be above the law.

You're moving the goalposts.

On the contrary, I have been DRASTICALLY consistent in this discussion, even resisting your repeated attempts to sidestep the issue with straw-men and red herrings. Stand still for a few hours and try to discuss what we're actually talking about, and you'll see the goalposts are entirely stationary.

Black lives matter more than your crappy aim.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

What you fail to understand is the timeframe. Most of these go down in a few seconds.

And very few of them NEED to. That's why deescalation is always an option.

Furthermore, in liberal-speak, "deescalate" generally amounts to let the bad guy go.

Bullshit.

LEAHY: Officer Davis was on this sidewalk when a man high on PCP burst out of a restaurant holding a steak knife.

DAVIS: You know, he starts, like, jabbing in our direction with the knife, like...

LEAHY: Davis' first reflex...

DAVIS: Let me go to my gun. In case he tries to lunge at me, I have to have some type of defense, which is nerve-racking because you got a hundred different things and you got to make a split-second decision at that time. You're like, OK, do I do this?

LEAHY: Davis relied on her training. She knew that to de-escalate this situation she really had to slow things down.

DAVIS: You know, I don't want to take this man's life if there's another way to do this. Let me put it away and try another approach. Let us try to get him to an area that we know we can control him to a certain extent and use whatever other options we have.

LEAHY: Officer Devlin showed up as backup.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

DEVLIN: I got him. Drop the knife.

LEAHY: That's him on the video taking charge.

DEVLIN: You always want one person to be talking because you get voices from all over the place, it's going to confuse somebody even more.

LEAHY: Other officers cleared the area ahead of the man with the knife to protect bystanders and remove anyone who might have provoked him. They surrounded him but loosely.

DAVIS: You got six, seven officers rushing one person, that might escalate his behavior.

LEAHY: And they took their time. The slow foot chase eventually ended when the man just dropped the knife.

Furthermore:

In an interview with the Dallas Morning News in 2015, Brown said that the decline in complaints about use of force come from more regular, realistic training, greater community outreach, and an emphasis on “de-escalation,” where police try to slow to slow the action down and avoid using force. Rather than running into a situation, take your time approaching a suspect, talk over a strategy with your partner. Have just one officer talk with a suspect — rather than multiple people shouting — try to build a rapport with with suspect. It’s not just Dallas, the Morning News reported; excessive force complaints have also fallen in Seattle, Baltimore, and New York, among other major American cities. In Seattle, the New York Times reported last year, all of the city’s officers are “taught to ask open-ended questions, paraphrase what a person has just said so that he or she knows the officer is listening, and make statements that connote empathy with the person’s situation.” If officers do those things, the reasoning goes, they’ll have less of a need for force. Las Vegas has also emerged as a pioneer in de-escalation, with the department making a commitment to the “sanctity of life.”

Furthermore:

Aggression arising from frustration is one of the prime triggers of conflict and in a security environment, this can occur anytime someone wants something they cannot have (entry into the premises, one more drink and so on). Breakdowns in communication, a lack of adequate communication skills and even drugs or alcohol can all be contributing factors to the development of conflict. Regardless of the contributing factors, the intended goal should remain constant, mitigate the associated risks and de-escalate the conflict whilst staying outcome focussed.

Furthermore:

A recent controversial report by Washington, DC-based criminal justice think-tank the Police Executive Research Forum (PERF) lists 30 guiding principles for law enforcement use-of-force policy and training. At least eight of the guidelines directly mention de-escalation or discuss aspects of how officers can reduce force by backing off in situations where immediate action is not mandated by law or required for officer or public safety. The PERF guidelines were the product of a conference that included chiefs, public officials, and trainers

De-escalation is also a common theme in many Department of Justice reports on agencies facing consent decrees for civil rights violations and allegations of excessive force. A concern expressed in many of these reports is that the agencies have a "pattern and practice of taking immediate offensive action" in encounters with subjects. The obvious implication is that the DOJ investigators believe the officers could have mitigated the use of force in these situations through de-escalation.

That last one is the DEPARTMENT OF FUCKING JUSTICE saying that de-escalation tactics are available to officers and can avoid the unnecessary use of force. In short, security experts and police officers all over the country are reasonably sure that de-escalation is entirely compatible with an officer's duty.

You, who have never wielded a weapon, never been in a conflict OR a combat situation, have never worked security and have probably never even been in a fight in your life, have absolutely no business telling me or anyone else what is and isn't possible in a conflict situation. It is one of the MANY aspects of life where you have no idea what you're talking about and should simply stop posting.

Yup, the same thing I saw before--you would prefer that blacks not be made to obey the law.

Police officers are not "the law."

Black lives matter more than obedience to policemen.

Once again, you want immunity from the law.

Police authority is not "the law."

Black lives matter more than a policeman's authority.

How about if Michael Brown had robbed you? Would you care?

Of course I would. That doesn't mean I would want the cops to shoot him in the street like a dog.

Black lives matter more than stolen cigarillos.

Also, there's two more factors:

1) Broken windows. Let lesser crime slide and you see worse crime.

Already proven to be bullshit after years of experimentation in New York City. Crime simply doesn't work that way.

And anyway, black lives matter more than broken windows.

2) The police know that someone who commits one crime is far more likely to commit others than the average person on the street.

Black lives matter more than a statistically insignificant reduction in the local crime rate.

If he allows a loss of dominance he can't establish order.

Incorrect. Dominance and order are mutually exclusive conditions. You can dominate a room full of people with a bad attitude and a baseball bat, but you can't impose order that way.

Does it ever occur to you that the communities might differ in other respects?

It did indeed. And for the most part, they don't.

Or are you alluding tot he lack of nig... er... I mean... "thugs" in those communities?

They're bringing it upon themselves.

Black lives matter more than your estimation of their worthiness to be killed

No--everyone is expected to not threaten others.

Yes. Including police officers.

That's not the report I saw.

No, it's the report you made up.

Black lives matter more than your shitty memory.

Bad cop = did something to a black.

Black lives matter more than your unshakeable faith that nothing a cop ever does to a black person could possibly be wrong.

But it won't be just once...

Hell, it won't even BE once. It's a temporary retreat to allow the suspect to cool down and come to a more cooperative stance on its own. Officers don't need to dominate their suspects physically and psychologically to gain their cooperation; that is a juvenile and childish vision of how the world works based on action movies and inward jingoism.

Black lives matter more than your silly cop show fantasies.

Note that the jury didn't convict.

So what? You don't bring a case to trial because you can guarantee a conviction, you bring it to trial because there's enough evidence to try the case.

The jury didn't convict O.J. simpson or John Milam either. Should the proseutors have gone to jail instead?

Black lives matter more than your desire to protect people who kill them for no good reason

Your inability to understand the reason doesn't make it no exist.

Black lives matter more than your made-up, bullshit reasons that are just just a sad little fig leaf for your creeping racism.

 

[bilby]

"Deescalation is rarely an option" is a bullshit claim, as evidenced by the fact that other developed nations' police simply don't shoot as many citizens as the USA does.

Clearly deescalation is an option in those cases (in the case of the British police, it's often the only option, as patrol officers are not routinely provided the means to exert lethal force).

If deescalation really isn't an option in the US, then that is not a conclusion - it's the starting point for a discussion about how to fix your obviously broken society, to render deescalation the option that it demonstrably IS in the civilized world.

In the first 24 days of 2015, police in the US fatally shot more people (59) than police did in England and Wales, combined, over the past 24 years (55). This suggests that confrontations in the US are ~60 times as difficult to deescalate as those in the UK (when taking the relative population size into account). That's a HUGE number, and strongly implies that deescalation is, in fact, an option for US police officers about 59 times out of 60. 59 times out of 60 is not 'rarely'.

The German police are more trigger happy; They shoot twice as many people (on a per capita basis) than their British counterparts (perhaps unsurprisingly, as lethal force is almost always available to on-duty police in Germany). Assuming that the UK is an outlier for that reason, this would imply that deescalation is, in fact, an option for US police officers about 29 times out of 30. 29 times out of 30 is STILL not 'rarely'.

The problem in the US might well have multiple causes; But these figures show that it is a real problem - it's something that can, in principle, be addressed, and not simply an unavoidable law of nature that we must accept with a shrug, and move on.

Inadequate police training; The needless fractioning of policing in the US into tens of thousands of small forces; Inadequate gun control; Institutional racism; Low police pay; Inadequate liaison between police and communities; Excessive punishments and high arrest rates for trivial offenses; Militarization of the police - all of these and more may be contributing factors to the carnage. All of them can be (and should be) addressed. But none will be if we just shrug and say "Deescalation is rarely an option", every time someone is shot by the police.

 

[Mumbles]

Inadequate police training; The needless fractioning of policing in the US into tens of thousands of small forces; Inadequate gun control; Institutional racism; Low police pay; Inadequate liaison between police and communities; Excessive punishments and high arrest rates for trivial offenses; Militarization of the police - all of these and more may be contributing factors to the carnage. All of them can be (and should be) addressed. But none will be if we just shrug and say "Deescalation is rarely an option", every time someone is shot by the police.

"Inadequate" training is often true of people with mental illnesses that end up beaten or killed (BTW, for anyone caring for one such person - learn the number of your local Fire Department and call them instead of 911), but more often it's just flat-out bad training, or bad policy/culture. It's very common for police to have it drilled into their heads that they're essentially at war, and everyone else is either a chump or a violent criminal. When you combine this with the old stereotype of black men as murderous "thugs", you end up with a lot of unnecessary violence. Policies like "broken windows" policing are almost never implemented correctly, and policies like "stop and frisk" only serve to anger wide swaths of residents. After all, very few people like to have someone shove them around and feel them up while spewing racial slurs at them. And of course, that's not to mention outright white supremacist police forces like what we saw in Ferguson.

But yes, everything you mentioned are also factors in the problem. Ironically, groups like Black Lives Matter tend to do a better job of heading off riots than many police forces in the US, mostly because they talk to people instead of running around firing tear gas and rubber bullets indiscriminately.

 

[RavenSky]

Trayvon Martin certainly was the aggressor. Purple drank has nothing to do with it. He applied schoolyard thug rules to adult life, oops.

I don't see anything thuggish with Tamir Rice. What he learned from his mother was to avoid the cops. He's not the first person that got shot ditching contraband (he had been warned the lack of an orange tip made the "gun" illegal), he won't be the last.

BULL FUCKING SHIT on BOTH counts

I am so fucking tired of this absolute bullshit. It is beyond disgusting.

The kind of alt-fact thinking you display in both of those claims is exactly how we wound up with Trump in the Whitehouse

 

[another1]

Would you agree that a machine called a scum shovel 5000 would chip a piece of road on accident every now and then? Good old, poorly paid, underappreciate scum shovel 5000. Taking a beating in a repetitious battle with the scum. Knowing nothing else. The scum would close in and kill us without it, but it chipped the road, that damn scum shovel 5000.

Actually what I mean to say is that black pavement matters. All pavement is vital of course but the black part gets real hot. Watch out going barefoot. The really freshly dried, unbeaten road can actually dissolve your bike tires, so you want to watch out for that, and let nature take course. Eventually the natural contortions under the weight of traffic and weather turn it into regular old road - the type that chips as carelessly as any other. I'm wonderin exactly how long ago 1863 was, assuming time isn't playing jokes on us. Sure seems like it moves faster nowadays, which is a good thing perhaps.

When it comes to overhauling the 5000 I say take pause because it seems to be functioning pretty damn well, considering how much scum needs shoveled. Good God the scum. It keeps growing. Put a bigger shovel on the damn thing, the scum is creeping near the schools. Quickly do it now I thank you.

I watched concrete dry, as a professional concrete watcher. Ten years. I know a great deal about concrete. I'd like to think I somewhat know how it feels to be black and poor. Cops have stomped me for no reason and I have lived in plenty of public housing. I never felt accepted by people of any race, especially my own. No unfamiliar cop is going to look at me and think good thoughts, either. I don't have a 9 to 5 look, so I don't blame them. I'd probably feel no anger if I got shot by a cop. It could happen easily I feel. I'd seek money for it because I am greedy but I wouldn't get out a crayon box and look up how to spell "matters", if I got shot by a cop. That is just stupid. Acknowledging that anything matters... it just seems so tacky and presumptive. Maybe I just don't understand the politics. I know about concrete and heavy machines and etc but that may have been an unreadable post. Do you understand and agree?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You're moving the goalposts.

On the contrary, I have been DRASTICALLY consistent in this discussion, even resisting your repeated attempts to sidestep the issue with straw-men and red herrings. Stand still for a few hours and try to discuss what we're actually talking about, and you'll see the goalposts are entirely stationary.

Black lives matter more than your crappy aim.

You were switching to evil cops committing crimes as a punishment for speaking up. This has been about police shootings. You moved the goalposts.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And very few of them NEED to. That's why deescalation is always an option.

Most of them come when the bad guy attacks the cops. It's very quick.

Furthermore, in liberal-speak, "deescalate" generally amounts to let the bad guy go.

Bullshit.

You're calling your own words bullshit.

Look upthread, your way of deescalating is to do nothing about the crime. In other words, letting the bad guy go.

LEAHY: Officer Davis was on this sidewalk when a man high on PCP burst out of a restaurant holding a steak knife.

Note: While he had a knife he wasn't trying to use it on any of the cops. At least some of the cops should have drawn guns in such a situation--it actually means they're less likely to shoot. (The faster they are able to shoot if things go south the farther they can let the guy go before deciding to shoot.)

Furthermore:

Note that this is about use of force, not about shootings. Most use of force isn't with the gun.

Furthermore:

Again, nothing to do with gun-type situations.

Furthermore:

You continue with the red herrings. You're presenting a ton of stuff about low-level situations in which the bad guy can often be talked down.

However, in lethal force situations it's usually by surprise--the cops catch someone who doesn't want to go to jail and they go for a weapon.

That last one is the DEPARTMENT OF FUCKING JUSTICE saying that de-escalation tactics are available to officers and can avoid the unnecessary use of force. In short, security experts and police officers all over the country are reasonably sure that de-escalation is entirely compatible with an officer's duty.

The DoJ has been flirting with the deep end for a while now.

Yup, the same thing I saw before--you would prefer that blacks not be made to obey the law.

Police officers are not "the law."

Black lives matter more than obedience to policemen.

Once again, showing that what you want is no law enforcement on blacks.

Once again, you want immunity from the law.

Police authority is not "the law."

Black lives matter more than a policeman's authority.

While the police are not the law they are the means by which it is enforced. No police authority = no law enforcement.

How about if Michael Brown had robbed you? Would you care?

Of course I would. That doesn't mean I would want the cops to shoot him in the street like a dog.

Black lives matter more than stolen cigarillos.

He was shot because he tried to fight the cops and take the cop's gun.

2) The police know that someone who commits one crime is far more likely to commit others than the average person on the street.

Black lives matter more than a statistically insignificant reduction in the local crime rate.

Once again you're showing that you want blacks to be above the law.

But it won't be just once...

Hell, it won't even BE once. It's a temporary retreat to allow the suspect to cool down and come to a more cooperative stance on its own. Officers don't need to dominate their suspects physically and psychologically to gain their cooperation; that is a juvenile and childish vision of how the world works based on action movies and inward jingoism.

And if you don't know who the suspect is retreat = let the crime go unpunished.

Note that the jury didn't convict.

So what? You don't bring a case to trial because you can guarantee a conviction, you bring it to trial because there's enough evidence to try the case.

You bring cases to trial only if you think you can win. To bring a case you know you can't win is an abuse of authority and should send the prosecutor to jail.

The jury didn't convict O.J. simpson or John Milam either. Should the proseutors have gone to jail instead?

Black lives matter more than your made-up, bullshit reasons that are just just a sad little fig leaf for your creeping racism.

All you care about is blacks (and your policies will up the black death rate anyway), not society. You're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Trayvon Martin certainly was the aggressor. Purple drank has nothing to do with it. He applied schoolyard thug rules to adult life, oops.

I don't see anything thuggish with Tamir Rice. What he learned from his mother was to avoid the cops. He's not the first person that got shot ditching contraband (he had been warned the lack of an orange tip made the "gun" illegal), he won't be the last.

BULL FUCKING SHIT on BOTH counts

I am so fucking tired of this absolute bullshit. It is beyond disgusting.

The kind of alt-fact thinking you display in both of those claims is exactly how we wound up with Trump in the Whitehouse

The alt-facts are coming from the BLM crowd.

 

[laughing dog]

I'm not the one that introduced it.

You are the one who promoted it.

Zimmerman followed. Stupid but not criminal. Martin attacked, criminal.

There you go again with your alt-facts. You don't know Martin attacked first. That is Zimmerman's story. And Zimmerman's documented before since then should lead even the most obtuse to doubt his credibility as some peace-loving innocent gun-toting police wannabe. But making up that thug persona does help you "understand" what happened.

I'm interested in understanding what happened. You can't hope to fix a problem other than by blind luck until you understand it.

Well, making up "facts" like purple drank or thuggish behavior is certainly a unique way of understanding what actually happened in those situations.

 

[another1]

I'd say don't give back, yellow, red or even white people any attention when they start acting up. I may have missed some colors. Blue you definitely want to give a hand because it may be a medical emergency. Any other time it is should be gray pavement 100% of the time. All just as susceptible to the math.

Do this math please. How many guns are floating around in cop hands. Factor in bullets, penises, testosterones, shit training. It will probably equal exactly what you have, miraculously. Biggest problem though is one pile of ROCKS... inanimate objects in a GROTESQUE environment to work in. People will someday understand and they will clam the hell down don't worry. They think they are special, and that getting treated "equally" is the point. Almost to the point of being treated unequally for the sake of it. That is stupid. It may take longer if you feed them more attention. Disgusting how bad people are at math in the inner city. That is a problem to address. Not a temper tantrum to address. Come on.

 

[Arctish]

another1, check your meds.

BTW, I'm pretty sure I'd feel anger if you were shot by a cop just because you don't have a 9 to 5 look, especially if it was a cop who stomped people for no reason. In fact, I'd try to get the cop arrested and charged for use of excessive force and/or attempted murder. Not sure if that helps you any, but I think it's the least I can do for my fellow citizens.

 

[another1]

Checked my meds, I'm good on smoke til Thursday. You don't know me and you don't understand my point. Check that. LOTS of whites got shot in my state today. Half of them unfairly. That is what happens. There is no defending those who do not understand this. Do people not "get" that police kill?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There you go again with your alt-facts. You don't know Martin attacked first. That is Zimmerman's story. And Zimmerman's documented before since then should lead even the most obtuse to doubt his credibility as some peace-loving innocent gun-toting police wannabe. But making up that thug persona does help you "understand" what happened.

It simply makes no sense for Zimmerman to have attacked. Doing so would not help his goals in any way.

I'm interested in understanding what happened. You can't hope to fix a problem other than by blind luck until you understand it.

Well, making up "facts" like purple drank or thuggish behavior is certainly a unique way of understanding what actually happened in those situations.

I just said I wasn't the one who brought up the purple drank. You're using alt-facts to try to rebut my position.

 

[laughing dog]

It simply makes no sense for Zimmerman to have attacked. Doing so would not help his goals in any way.

It makes no sense for Martin to have attacked either. And there is lots of evidence that Zimmerman is anything but a nonviolent, peaceful and rational human being. But you continue to literally assert fiction is fact while trying to "understand" the situation.

I just said I wasn't the one who brought up the purple drank. You're using alt-facts to try to rebut my position.

You are the one who argued that Martin was on purple drank and that it helped explain what you believed were his actions. That is not behavior of someone who is trying to understand the situation - that is the behavior of someone making stuff up in order to concoct an explanation that is consist with someone's biases.

But thank you providing yet more evidence to support my initial observation.

 

[another1]

A small amount of people can get such huge attention from just an image and a falsified quote. Look how easily it can happen. People blow stuff up. I think it is more white people stirring things up than blacks being any more upset than they usually are. It doesn't invade my world past a few images online and some ominous bullshit that means nothing. No blacks I know mention it. They have their feet on the ground. The man wants whitey to think the darkies are out of control, say some. Hey imagine a white BLM supporter being killed by a black BLM extremist. That will probably happen so I would show my support in any way other than showing up to one of these carnivals.

Assume black lives matter any more than any other race. If that really is the case, "BLM" (so likely) should be turned into mass efforts to improve education and censor entertainment. If black lives actually matter then they will point in the right direction, which is not at the cops. Sure cops are flawed but not statistically discriminative, when you do actual math. Learn how to do math, God damn you. Black people have lost a lot of cool points with me this time. They are acting really stupid. The black people I know personally aren't.. so I guess it is just conversation material really. White people are losing points for buying into this. I see it as temporary. Future cringe material.

Things mattering is now a big thing. Oh but it matters that seals rape penguins? There is an unprecedented wave of interspecies rape sweeping the planet? It matters that 20,000 people die of starvation a day? I thought they were just cartoons! It will be a drag dealing with things once they actually matter. People should at least stay equal though, wouldn't you say? None should matter more. That would be unfair. It does suck to be low class and more apt to get shot by cops, but that is class, not race. Poor people should respect the cops more. That would help the situation.