Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[Derec]

Bryan had tried to help them stop Arbery earlier, according to an incident report

Does not make him a murderer.

Who on earth are you babbling about?

Those who have demanded that Bryan be arrested even though he wasn't involved in the killing at all. Those who sent him death threats too.

 

[Derec]

I asked you before if you could find out more about the alleged theft of fishing tackle.

I could not find anything more. That is the failure of the media who is more intent on maintaining the 'jogger' narrative than unearthing the truth.

The story you linked to is one we've already seen, and English has since gone on record saying nothing was ever stolen.

Exactly. He changed his story. The queston is why. I think it's likely intimidation by the racist black militia.

At this point, the stolen fishing tackle story is just a rumor.

Not really. CNN portrays it as direct statement by homeowner (English), not a rumor.

The homeowner, who declined to share the clips with CNN, said there were previous videos on other occasions showing a man entering the property and stealing fishing tackle but he could not identify the man and he did not file a police report.

It says he did not file a report, but he DID say that stuff was stolen. Now he reverses himself and says nothing was stolen. Why?

Perhaps you can find out when it supposedly happened. Apparently, the McMichaels confronted someone they thought might be a burglar back in 2019. Was the fishing tackle stolen back then or more recently?

No idea. I wish the news media would do their fucking jobs!

 

[Derec]

Bryan probably thought he was being a good neighbor by helping a retired cop apprehend someone.

Exactly!

Bryan has already been cooperating with the GBI. I expect a plea deal.

He should fight it. He has a good chance of getting acquitted, especially if he finds a good lawyer.

 

[barbos]

Man who recorded the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery has been arrested, GBI says

More appeasing of the angry mob. That guy literally did nothing, just recorded what happened.
But the anti-white racists want another pound of flesh I guess.

McMichaels said he participated in their "citizen arrest"
Of course more interesting question is who/what started the whole thing.

 

[Jokodo]

Man who recorded the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery has been arrested, GBI says

More appeasing of the angry mob. That guy literally did nothing, just recorded what happened.
But the anti-white racists want another pound of flesh I guess.

Felony murder only requires that you're part of a group that causes a death. If you keep watch at your street corner while your friends who just robbed a bank run someone over in their getaway car, you can be charged with felony murder without having come closest than half a mile to the victim.

 

[Derec]

You have to give credence to rumors to believe all that. The suspensions were documented. The rest is unsourced gossip that right wing sites endlessly repeat as though it was a mantra of Revealed Truth.

Not true. The drug dealing was evident from Trayvon's social media messages, particularly with his friend DumbRyte (in one thread DumbRyte wanted to buy weed, in the other Trayvon was seeking codeine). The jewelry was also not gossip but has been documented (inability to link the jewelry to any known burglaries does not mean he didn't burgle it).

I'm asking because it didn't seem to take much digging at all and yet you appear to have done none.

None was needed, as that was part of the media narrative since the beginning. The media such as CNN used Z's mugshot and juxtaposed it with photos of Trayvon when he was 12-14 years old.

I remember early in the "Dying for Skittles" thread somebody thought Trayvon was 13 and not 17 because of the photos they kept showing!

Similarly, you appear to have gone digging for dirt on Arbery and completely ignored Greg McMichael being suspended twice and losing his certification to be a law enforcement officer.

Because media is all over it already. But they are far less interested in Arbery's past.

If you're genuinely interested in keeping the narrative honest, you have to be willing to deal honestly with the facts, not peddle half-truths and exaggerations.

I am keeping the narrative honest by telling the parts of the stories buried by most media and most posters on here. MSM wanted us to believe Michael Brown was a "gentle giant" who was "spreading the word of Jesus Christ" and not a convenience store robber. Remember that?

Focusing on a shoplifting charge from three years ago, one that does not appear to have been a factor in the incident we are discussing, doesn't look like you are attempting to present a complete picture. It looks like you want to change the picture.

I was focusing on that because some posters were trying to argue that he wasn't a thief. If some posters are presenting an inaccurate picture, changing that funhouse mirror picture is what is necessary to provide an accurate image.

 

[J842P]

What probable cause would the police have had to search Mr. Arbery's home for any other reported stolen item?

Because he was suspected in those burglaries. That's why he was followed after all.
If he DID steal the gun and the tackle, would it not be good for police to know that?

It doesn't seem really relevant to the case at hand.

 

[Derec]

Felony murder only requires that you're part of a group that causes a death. If you keep watch at your street corner while your friends who just robbed a bank run someone over in their getaway car, you can be charged with felony murder without having come closest than half a mile to the victim.

But they were not robbing a bank. There was no criminal intent whatsoever, no mens rea. Their only intent was to apprehend a suspect, albeit in a very flawed way. Murder charges are way overblown.

 

[Derec]

It doesn't seem really relevant to the case at hand.

Goes to reasonableness of suspicion that led McMichaelses to initiate the pursuit. The prosecution is claiming that Arbery was just a jogger. If he has stolen items in his possession, then that is clearly not true and McMichaelses pursuing him for citizens' arrest looks far more reasonable than if Arbery was "just a jogger". So the prosecution might not want these items to be checked for, but in interest of justice Arbery's domicile should have been searched. Now of course it is moot. His family had ample opportunity to get rid of any incriminating items.

 

[Jokodo]

Felony murder only requires that you're part of a group that causes a death. If you keep watch at your street corner while your friends who just robbed a bank run someone over in their getaway car, you can be charged with felony murder without having come closest than half a mile to the victim.

But they were not robbing a bank. There was no criminal intent whatsoever, no mens rea. Their only intent was to apprehend a suspect, albeit in a very flawed way. Murder charges are way overblown.

No, they were assaulting and attempting thre illegal imprisonment of a person whose illegal activities they had no direct knowledge - which is a felony just like robbing a bank, and remains a felony if, and remains a felony if, unbeknownst to them, he was planning to steel a hammer from the site.

 

[Derec]

Of course more interesting question is who/what started the whole thing.

Arbery. By trespassing. No trespass, and there would have been no pursuit that day.

 

[Derec]

No, they were assaulting and attempting thre illegal imprisonment of a person whose illegal activities they had no direct knowledge - which is a felony just like robbing a bank, and remains a felony if, and remains a felony if, unbeknownst to them, he was planning to steel a hammer from the site.

Can you cite where in the law it is being defined that way?

 

[Jokodo]

No, they were assaulting and attempting thre illegal imprisonment of a person whose illegal activities they had no direct knowledge - which is a felony just like robbing a bank, and remains a felony if, and remains a felony if, unbeknownst to them, he was planning to steel a hammer from the site.

Can you cite where in the law it is being defined that way?

You want me to cite the laws that make aggravated assault with a lethal weapon and false imprisonment felonies??

His best possible defense is that he was misled by the MacMichaels into believing he was part of a legitimate citizen's arrest.

 

[Derec]

You want me to cite the laws that make aggravated assault with a lethal weapon and false imprisonment felonies??

I want you to cite the law (either statute or case) where possibly mistaken attempt at a citizen's arrest without mens rea is considered aggravated assault and false imprisonment.

His best possible defense is that he was misled by the MacMichaels into believing he was part of a legitimate citizen's arrest.

If Arbery was there to steal, then it was a legitimate citzens' arrest.
There are still some incosistencies to the "just a jogger" narrative that the media is trying to bury.
1. He definitely trespassed. What was his intent?
2. His attire. Khaki shorts is not the usual running attire.
3. What happened to the fishing tackle?
4. What happened to the gun?

Probably a few more.

 

[Jokodo]

You want me to cite the laws that make aggravated assault with a lethal weapon and false imprisonment felonies??

I want you to cite the law (either statute or case) where possibly mistaken attempt at a citizen's arrest without mens rea is considered aggravated assault and false imprisonment.

His best possible defense is that he was misled by the MacMichaels into believing he was part of a legitimate citizen's arrest.

If Arbery was there to steal, then it was a legitimate citzens' arrest.

No. If Arbery was there to steal and his pursuers had immediate knowledge of that fact. Since he didn't actually steal anything, they would have to possess psychic power for that to be the case.

1. He definitely trespassed. What was his intent?

Irrelevant unless his pursuers had direct knowledge of his intent. Which requires psychic powers.

2. His attire. Khaki shorts is not the usual running attire.

Irrelevant since jogging without whatever attire you approve of is not a crime warranting a citizen's arrest. It may be an indication that jogging was not his intention, but then we're back to the problem of psychic powers.

3. What happened to the fishing tackle?
4. What happened to the gun?

Irrelevant since both of these were supposed to be months earlier, and Arbery hasn't been directly linked to either. A citizen's arrest requires immediate knowledge of an ongoing crime, not a hunch that someone might have done something illegal a couple months ago.

 

[J842P]

It doesn't seem really relevant to the case at hand.

Goes to reasonableness of suspicion that led McMichaelses to initiate the pursuit.

No it doesn't.

 

[barbos]

Of course more interesting question is who/what started the whole thing.

Arbery. By trespassing. No trespass, and there would have been no pursuit that day.

Who saw him trespassing?

 

[barbos]

Felony murder only requires that you're part of a group that causes a death. If you keep watch at your street corner while your friends who just robbed a bank run someone over in their getaway car, you can be charged with felony murder without having come closest than half a mile to the victim.

But they were not robbing a bank. There was no criminal intent whatsoever, no mens rea. Their only intent was to apprehend a suspect, albeit in a very flawed way. Murder charges are way overblown.

No, they were assaulting and attempting thre illegal imprisonment of a person whose illegal activities they had no direct knowledge - which is a felony just like robbing a bank, and remains a felony if, and remains a felony if, unbeknownst to them, he was planning to steel a hammer from the site.

How direct "Direct knowledge" need to be? What if someone saw Arbery entering and then leaving house and called these 3? What if it was Roddy?

 

[Jokodo]

And no, witnessing someone who is obviously not a jogger (even if we grant you that) suddenly starting running does not constitute "imeddiate knowledge of a crime". It may be because the person just realised they were spotted doing something suspicious, or it may be because they got a call that their sister has been hospitalised. And even if it was the former, they may have understood that what they were doing looked suspicious because their intent was illegal, or because they suddenly realised what it might look like to others although their actual intent was innocent.

So, assume for the sake of the argument that he wasn't running until he was spotted. That's still no grounds for a citizen's arrest.

 

[barbos]

And no, witnessing someone who is obviously not a jogger (even if we grant you that) suddenly starting running does not constitute "imeddiate knowledge of a crime". It may be because the person just realised they were spotted doing something suspicious, or it may be because they got a call that their sister has been hospitalised. And even if it was the former, they may have understood that what they were doing looked suspicious because their intent was illegal, or because they suddenly realised what it might look like to others although their actual intent was innocent.

So, assume for the sake of the argument that he wasn't running until he was spotted. That's still no grounds for a citizen's arrest.

Well, maybe not for citizen arrest but I bet if you demonstratively start running at the sight of the police they would run after you.