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#blacklivesmatter explanation

Tigers!

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In Australia we get a heavily filtered (censored?) details of the police shootings in the USA.
One thing that puzzles me is #blacklivesmatter.

Are the blacks (I dislike using such a term but have no better alternative) fearful of the police in general or just white police?
That is are these people being shot/killed just by white officers or is it more equal opportunity situation?

I know that some blacks are killed by white police but I don not know about any others and their colour content.
 
In Australia we get a heavily filtered (censored?) details of the police shootings in the USA.
One thing that puzzles me is #blacklivesmatter.

Are the blacks (I dislike using such a term but have no better alternative) fearful of the police in general or just white police?
That is are these people being shot/killed just by white officers or is it more equal opportunity situation?

I know that some blacks are killed by white police but I don not know about any others and their colour content.

Most of the shootings are done by white police, I believe, but definitely not all..

Studies have shown on many levels (Police, Teachers, store clerks, whatever) that the bias against people who are black is extremely pervasive even to the point that people who are themselves black (or other minority) view other people who are black unfavorably. This is seen with little girls being asked which doll is "most beautiful" and young men asked "is this person dangerous." I think that's not terrible unexpected when the societal message for decades - lifetimes - has been black is bad, dangerous, lazy, wrong that people subconsciously act on that teaching. The fact that it's wrong and untrue, doesn't make this go away. It's LESS common for people who are black to be discriminators, but it's not eliminated.

In this recent baltimore case, 3 cops who are all white stopped and arrested Grey. He appears injured from that encounter. He's then placed in a van with a driver who is black (and a co-pilot who is white, I think?) and apparently injured further. Later two additional cops who are black see him and do not come to his aid.


Another reason why #blacklivesmatter is a thing is because in addition to many cops (most of whom are white) killing black men, it is simultaneously seen that white men (and women) who are criminals tend to get arrested without being killed. More patience is afforded to those criminals before shooting them.

So it is both "don't shoot me because you're white" and also "don't shoot me because I'm black."

My 2¢
 
http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white

I'm not sure how reliable that article is. Regardless...
Who is killing all those black men and boys?

Mostly white officers. But in hundreds of instances, black officers, too. Black officers account for a little more than 10 percent of all fatal police shootings. Of those they kill, though, 78 percent were black.

White officers, given their great numbers in so many of the country's police departments, are well represented in all categories of police killings. White officers killed 91 percent of the whites who died at the hands of police. And they were responsible for 68 percent of the people of color killed. Those people of color represented 46 percent of all those killed by white officers.

It seems that black officers account for around 10% of the killings. I'm going to guess that is roughly proportional with their representation in the police force. I'm too lazy to delve deeper.

I am a Latino who grew up upper middle class, and I've never really felt discriminated against by middle class white people. But I know many Latinos at the very bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. They often complain about being discriminated against, and usually it is low-income white people and low-income black people doing the discriminating. It is my perception that overtly discriminatory behavior is more common among lower-income people in general. It's actually pretty sad, but a fairly predictable state of affairs. Latinos are in direct economic competition with people of any race in the lower-income range.
 
I know many Latinos at the very bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. They often complain about being discriminated against, and usually it is low-income white people and low-income black people doing the discriminating. It is my perception that overtly discriminatory behavior is more common among lower-income people in general. It's actually pretty sad, but a fairly predictable state of affairs. Latinos are in direct economic competition with people of any race in the lower-income range.

Yeah, one of the greatest weapons wielded by the powers is the ability to make each of their victims fight against each other instead of banding together to overcome the oppressor. :( It is sad.
 
In Australia we get a heavily filtered (censored?) details of the police shootings in the USA.
One thing that puzzles me is #blacklivesmatter.

Are the blacks (I dislike using such a term but have no better alternative) fearful of the police in general or just white police?
That is are these people being shot/killed just by white officers or is it more equal opportunity situation?

I know that some blacks are killed by white police but I don not know about any others and their colour content.

While you will get some other answers from the leftists on here there's another factor they certainly won't mention:

We have some in this country who go around stirring up black-on-white animosity as a way to power. (Here's something that's hurting you, I'm here to help.) This unjustified animosity is a large part of the problem. If a black is shot by the police without having already shot an officer you can pretty much figure there's going to be a crowd blaming the police and saying he did nothing wrong, the police forced him into it. (A perfect example locally: A cop was running plates--one comes back hot. He follows and calls for backup. The driver realizes he's being followed and takes off, the cop follows. The driver gets into an unfamiliar neighborhood and corners himself when he doesn't realize a 4-lane road will suddenly dead-end {there was a freeway ahead, the bridge was in the early stages of construction}. The cop tells them to wait in the car, the driver gets out and points a gun at the cop. After he gets turned to swiss cheese it's found it's a realistic fake. "He was a good kid!" "He had never been arrested!" {Yeah, but he was driving a hot car} "The cop should have waited for backup!" {Exactly what he was doing until the driver forced matters} "He was followed because he was black!" {No, the cop followed because the plate was hot.})
 
Are the blacks (I dislike using such a term but have no better alternative) fearful of the police in general or just white police?

Police in general. Justice has been unequal for nearly all our history and they have good reason to be fearful as one wrong action or word can send them to jail on trumped up charges. I've talked to black men and their attorneys who are hauled into court to face charges of made up crimes like "lurking with intent" (standing on a corner), "hailing drug customers"(motioning to a friend's car), and "terrorist glances/casing an object for future crimes" (staring off into space). -- I'm sure we have people here that will defend such actions.

Yes, Black people have reason to fear police. They are suspect simply because they are Black.

The judges were livid when these cases come before them, but with the dockets full on a Monday morning the DA's office hadn't had time to look over the case load in front of them and release those that are charged with crimes that don't exist. Every few years there is a crack down, but the problem isn't going away. These men get arrest records and have difficulty finding jobs because of it.
 
In Australia we get a heavily filtered (censored?) details of the police shootings in the USA.
One thing that puzzles me is #blacklivesmatter.

Are the blacks (I dislike using such a term but have no better alternative) fearful of the police in general or just white police?
That is are these people being shot/killed just by white officers or is it more equal opportunity situation?

I know that some blacks are killed by white police but I don not know about any others and their colour content.

While you will get some other answers from the leftists on here there's another factor they certainly won't mention:

We have some in this country who go around stirring up black-on-white animosity as a way to power. (Here's something that's hurting you, I'm here to help.) This unjustified animosity is a large part of the problem. If a black is shot by the police without having already shot an officer you can pretty much figure there's going to be a crowd blaming the police and saying he did nothing wrong, the police forced him into it. (A perfect example locally: A cop was running plates--one comes back hot. He follows and calls for backup. The driver realizes he's being followed and takes off, the cop follows. The driver gets into an unfamiliar neighborhood and corners himself when he doesn't realize a 4-lane road will suddenly dead-end {there was a freeway ahead, the bridge was in the early stages of construction}. The cop tells them to wait in the car, the driver gets out and points a gun at the cop. After he gets turned to swiss cheese it's found it's a realistic fake. "He was a good kid!" "He had never been arrested!" {Yeah, but he was driving a hot car} "The cop should have waited for backup!" {Exactly what he was doing until the driver forced matters} "He was followed because he was black!" {No, the cop followed because the plate was hot.})

Citations or is this just a fantasy?
 
While you will get some other answers from the leftists on here there's another factor they certainly won't mention:

We have some in this country who go around stirring up black-on-white animosity as a way to power. (Here's something that's hurting you, I'm here to help.) This unjustified animosity is a large part of the problem. If a black is shot by the police without having already shot an officer you can pretty much figure there's going to be a crowd blaming the police and saying he did nothing wrong, the police forced him into it. (A perfect example locally: A cop was running plates--one comes back hot. He follows and calls for backup. The driver realizes he's being followed and takes off, the cop follows. The driver gets into an unfamiliar neighborhood and corners himself when he doesn't realize a 4-lane road will suddenly dead-end {there was a freeway ahead, the bridge was in the early stages of construction}. The cop tells them to wait in the car, the driver gets out and points a gun at the cop. After he gets turned to swiss cheese it's found it's a realistic fake. "He was a good kid!" "He had never been arrested!" {Yeah, but he was driving a hot car} "The cop should have waited for backup!" {Exactly what he was doing until the driver forced matters} "He was followed because he was black!" {No, the cop followed because the plate was hot.})

Citations or is this just a fantasy?

Please. Loren doesn't need no citations and he certainly isn't going to post any.

However, I will post citations:

Proof you cannot be educated enough, if you are black:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/21gates.html?_r=0

It doesn't matter if you cannot possibly be hiding weapons:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/26/family-anthony-hill-inves_n_6946992.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/chamblee-georgia-police-shooting-anthony-hill.html

A lot of people--usually men--are being killed by police, often for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

A young black man was shot dead in a Walmart in Ohio. For talking on his cell phone and for picking up a toy gun/air gun that was out of its package and laying on the shelf. His mistake: Not realizing that being a black man meant he was a threat and not realizing the police were after HIM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_John_Crawford_III

Unfortunately, I could fill a page full of citations. Pages, really. The only citation you'll get from Loren is an account of his wet dreams.
 
In Australia we get a heavily filtered (censored?) details of the police shootings in the USA.
One thing that puzzles me is #blacklivesmatter.

Are the blacks (I dislike using such a term but have no better alternative) fearful of the police in general or just white police?
That is are these people being shot/killed just by white officers or is it more equal opportunity situation?

I know that some blacks are killed by white police but I don not know about any others and their colour content.

what makes you think your news on the topic is being censored?
 
In Australia we get a heavily filtered (censored?) details of the police shootings in the USA.
One thing that puzzles me is #blacklivesmatter.

Are the blacks (I dislike using such a term but have no better alternative) fearful of the police in general or just white police?
That is are these people being shot/killed just by white officers or is it more equal opportunity situation?

I know that some blacks are killed by white police but I don not know about any others and their colour content.

While you will get some other answers from the leftists on here there's another factor they certainly won't mention:

We have some in this country who go around stirring up black-on-white animosity as a way to power.
Fox News.
This unjustified animosity is a large part of the problem.
Indeed. The amount of animosity seems to coincide with the election of Obama.
If a black is shot by the police without having already shot an officer you can pretty much figure there's going to be a crowd blaming the police and saying he did nothing wrong, the police forced him into it.
This is true. On the other hand, a completely unarmed person could get shot by the cops (race isn't important) and people will defend the cops to the end of the Earth.

Don't listen to Loren, this is the real story.

What is happening in America is an odd thing. There are shootings, it seems well over 1,000 killings involving the Police. Because statistics aren't tracked, there is no idea how much is undue shootings. Almost all of the officers aren't even charged when there is a killing. Almost none that are tried are convicted. This is ignoring beatings and what not.

So when a black male is shot and killed, there is typically a sense that there is no due process. Some blame it on race, but that probably isn't fair. The lack of due process is protection of the Police. That the shooting happened at all, however, has some basis of race. Now here is the rub. If the victim was white, there is doubt if he would have been roughed up and consequently killed. And this is what is bothering blacks. Hence #blacklivesmatter.

Then we have the "dialogue" in America. You'll have one part of the argument saying the guy was a saint (even if he was worse than Godwin). Another part of the argument will allege the man was a "thug" (even if he better than Wayne Brady). Another part of the argument will insist the cops were wrong, regardless of the evidence. Another part of the argument will insist the officers are never wrong. Those last two usually have notable overlap with the respective categories that precede them.

You add Cable News in this nation and AM Radio which are massive cash cows that base their business on sowing dissent and you develop this polarized situation. Where dialogue becomes impossible. And a situation such as in Baltimore where a guy almost assuredly seemed to die because of police treatment is still receiving an absurd amount of apologism.

What shouldn't be an issue divided by race, somehow is in this country.
 
#blacklivesmatter is obviously to rebut all the people who are always saying "black lives don't matter".
 
#blacklivesmatter is obviously to rebut all the people who are always saying "black lives don't matter".

saying AND acting on.

But, yeah, that's a pretty good summary. There are way too many of them.
 
While you will get some other answers from the leftists on here there's another factor they certainly won't mention:

We have some in this country who go around stirring up black-on-white animosity as a way to power. (Here's something that's hurting you, I'm here to help.) This unjustified animosity is a large part of the problem. If a black is shot by the police without having already shot an officer you can pretty much figure there's going to be a crowd blaming the police and saying he did nothing wrong, the police forced him into it. (A perfect example locally: A cop was running plates--one comes back hot. He follows and calls for backup. The driver realizes he's being followed and takes off, the cop follows. The driver gets into an unfamiliar neighborhood and corners himself when he doesn't realize a 4-lane road will suddenly dead-end {there was a freeway ahead, the bridge was in the early stages of construction}. The cop tells them to wait in the car, the driver gets out and points a gun at the cop. After he gets turned to swiss cheese it's found it's a realistic fake. "He was a good kid!" "He had never been arrested!" {Yeah, but he was driving a hot car} "The cop should have waited for backup!" {Exactly what he was doing until the driver forced matters} "He was followed because he was black!" {No, the cop followed because the plate was hot.})
you heard it here first, folks:
300 years worth of white men screaming that blacks are obsolete farm equipment that should be shot and killed at the slightest provocation and forming organizations that have the sole stated goal of oppressing minorities = no problem at all and has nothing to do with the problem.
60 years of relatively prominent (but not nearly as mainstream) black men pointing out that a lot of white people are still hellbent on destroying black people as a race = the REAL source of the problem and is totally why all this hostility is going on.
 
A lot of people--usually men--are being killed by police, often for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

So you have you noticed that it is more often black men than black women. Is there a sexist thing going on here as well as a racist thing?
 
While you will get some other answers from the leftists on here there's another factor they certainly won't mention:

We have some in this country who go around stirring up black-on-white animosity as a way to power. (Here's something that's hurting you, I'm here to help.) This unjustified animosity is a large part of the problem. If a black is shot by the police without having already shot an officer you can pretty much figure there's going to be a crowd blaming the police and saying he did nothing wrong, the police forced him into it. (A perfect example locally: A cop was running plates--one comes back hot. He follows and calls for backup. The driver realizes he's being followed and takes off, the cop follows. The driver gets into an unfamiliar neighborhood and corners himself when he doesn't realize a 4-lane road will suddenly dead-end {there was a freeway ahead, the bridge was in the early stages of construction}. The cop tells them to wait in the car, the driver gets out and points a gun at the cop. After he gets turned to swiss cheese it's found it's a realistic fake. "He was a good kid!" "He had never been arrested!" {Yeah, but he was driving a hot car} "The cop should have waited for backup!" {Exactly what he was doing until the driver forced matters} "He was followed because he was black!" {No, the cop followed because the plate was hot.})
you heard it here first, folks:
300 years worth of white men screaming that blacks are obsolete farm equipment that should be shot and killed at the slightest provocation and forming organizations that have the sole stated goal of oppressing minorities = no problem at all and has nothing to do with the problem.
60 years of relatively prominent (but not nearly as mainstream) black men pointing out that a lot of white people are still hellbent on destroying black people as a race = the REAL source of the problem and is totally why all this hostility is going on.

You really got that from what he wrote and what you quoted?

He has a point. So do you.

There is a real problem with bias against black men in the US, and a prejudiced image of thug, lazy, violent etc that they get saddled with, no matter how peaceful, hardworking or generally good that they are. There is a real problem with police holding this bias and acting on it and causing pointless deaths of innocent black men.

There are also people who see that and exploit it. There is a gangsta culture that markets it for profit. TV shows, music, etc glorifying it, even to the point that some daft white kids want to emulate it. There are people (often quite disconnected with the actual downtrodden) who happen to be black and use that group identity to their profit. I would not say it is the biggest problem going on with this, or even close to it, nor did Loren say that (yet), but it does happen, and dismissing it out of hand and sniping at anybody who mentions it won't help anything.
 
you heard it here first, folks:
300 years worth of white men screaming that blacks are obsolete farm equipment that should be shot and killed at the slightest provocation and forming organizations that have the sole stated goal of oppressing minorities = no problem at all and has nothing to do with the problem.
60 years of relatively prominent (but not nearly as mainstream) black men pointing out that a lot of white people are still hellbent on destroying black people as a race = the REAL source of the problem and is totally why all this hostility is going on.
There is a real problem with bias against black men in the US, and a prejudiced image of thug, lazy, violent etc that they get saddled with, no matter how peaceful, hardworking or generally good that they are. There is a real problem with police holding this bias and acting on it and causing pointless deaths of innocent black men.
It should be noted that what happened in Baltimore had nothing to do with bias. If the police were responsible for his injuries, that was flat out assault by the cops.

There are also people who see that and exploit it. There is a gangsta culture that markets it for profit. TV shows, music, etc glorifying it, even to the point that some daft white kids want to emulate it.
I'm curious. Why is this gangsta culture always trotted out in these discussions, but not the corporate media inspired conflict culture, where MSNBC and Fox News (Fox News in spades) are doing their best to egg each of their sides on?

There are people (often quite disconnected with the actual downtrodden) who happen to be black and use that group identity to their profit. I would not say it is the biggest problem going on with this, or even close to it, nor did Loren say that (yet), but it does happen, and dismissing it out of hand and sniping at anybody who mentions it won't help anything.
No one will dismiss the truth that there is some music out there with a gangster culture, it is just that it is somewhat irrelevant to the conversation.
 
You really got that from what he wrote and what you quoted?
yes, because that is exactly what he is saying.

He has a point. So do you.
i really don't think he does, because i know LP and his posting history well enough to know he's basically saying "this is all al sharpton's fault" and that's as far as his "logic" goes, because "blame it on jesse jackson" is the sum totality of what his brain requires to simply write off the entire topic.

There is a real problem with bias against black men in the US, and a prejudiced image of thug, lazy, violent etc that they get saddled with, no matter how peaceful, hardworking or generally good that they are. There is a real problem with police holding this bias and acting on it and causing pointless deaths of innocent black men.
i don't think that's the problem at all, because there is the same bias against redneck meth-heads, or mexicans with tear-drop tattoos, or any number of other easily visually identified cultural stereotypes that the genteel US mainstream consider frightening - and yet there isn't any evidence currently of there being a national trend of men of these other types being in assorted questionable situations with the police and being summarily executed over it.
even by this statement, you're trying to hand-wave away the problem, you're trying to say "oh well it's because poor victimized white murderers have been brain-washed into thinking these are dangerous criminals" - no, that isn't the problem.
take a white man and a black man dressed the same way ("gangsta" as you eloquently put it) and put them in the same contextual situation and have them act the same way, and national statistics and trends say that many people will find some way to excuse or justify killing the black guy, and will not do the same for the white guy.

the problem is that people in general see blacks as disposable, that a perceived threat from a black person is adequate grounds to straight up murder them - this is why #blacklivesmatter exists.

There are also people who see that and exploit it.
oh here we go...

There is a gangsta culture that markets it for profit. TV shows, music, etc glorifying it, even to the point that some daft white kids want to emulate it.
for every single instance you can possibly name or think of where "the blacks glorify being frightening to old white people" i can give you an equal number of examples of white people doing the same thing to the same extent (at least in terms of criminal activity and general social threat) but nobody would ever do what you're doing and try to claim that Breaking Bad is a legitimate reason to justify murdering a white kid because he was acting "shifty".

There are people (often quite disconnected with the actual downtrodden) who happen to be black and use that group identity to their profit. I would not say it is the biggest problem going on with this, or even close to it, nor did Loren say that (yet), but it does happen, and dismissing it out of hand and sniping at anybody who mentions it won't help anything.
this is patently ridiculous, because as white people have co-opted cultural trends which were traditionally associated with black communities, the perceived threat has not transferred to other races in remotely the same way.

the fact is you can take any perceived threatening cultural trait and apply it to whites, mexicans, asians, or potpourri and sure you'll make white people nervous, but it's only when you apply it to blacks that suddenly "immediate termination at the first tiny flicker of any behavior that isn't glaringly subservient" becomes something that is generally considered to be acceptable by society at large, or that will get people such as yourself and LP and derec to show up in threads and start doing mental gymnastics to try and justify.
this is why #blacklivesmatter exists.
 
A lot of people--usually men--are being killed by police, often for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

So you have you noticed that it is more often black men than black women. Is there a sexist thing going on here as well as a racist thing?

You mean: have I noticed that women are usually seen as powerless? Yeah, I noticed that when I was just a little girl. Not much older when I realized that women who cannot be totally taken as powerless or relegated into one of a handful of 'safe' stereotypes are relegated to one big stereotype: bitch.

Or do you mean do I believe that police should treat women as badly as they treat men? I think they do, just in different ways. Men are more likely to be beaten, shot, etc. by the police. Women are more likely to be beaten, shot, etc. by the men the police ignore because it's just a she said/he said kind of thing, never mind bruises, restraining orders, etc.

But if you mean: do I think there is far too much violence being used as the first, second and third choice: the answer is yes. Yes, I do. Unfortunately, these are often the go to tools of police when dealing with people they see as threatening. Black skin = threatening in our society.
 
While you will get some other answers from the leftists on here there's another factor they certainly won't mention:

We have some in this country who go around stirring up black-on-white animosity as a way to power. (Here's something that's hurting you, I'm here to help.) This unjustified animosity is a large part of the problem. If a black is shot by the police without having already shot an officer you can pretty much figure there's going to be a crowd blaming the police and saying he did nothing wrong, the police forced him into it. (A perfect example locally: A cop was running plates--one comes back hot. He follows and calls for backup. The driver realizes he's being followed and takes off, the cop follows. The driver gets into an unfamiliar neighborhood and corners himself when he doesn't realize a 4-lane road will suddenly dead-end {there was a freeway ahead, the bridge was in the early stages of construction}. The cop tells them to wait in the car, the driver gets out and points a gun at the cop. After he gets turned to swiss cheese it's found it's a realistic fake. "He was a good kid!" "He had never been arrested!" {Yeah, but he was driving a hot car} "The cop should have waited for backup!" {Exactly what he was doing until the driver forced matters} "He was followed because he was black!" {No, the cop followed because the plate was hot.})

Citations or is this just a fantasy?

Our paper's archive is behind a paywall. Even if I found the article (something I've had great difficulty doing with their website) I couldn't link it.
 
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