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Brains On Gender Gradients

ZiprHead

Looney Running The Asylum
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We have heard a great deal about gender being a spectrum, here Robert Sapolksy talks about the brain being on that same gender spectrum! ©Robert Sapolsky 2021
Robert Morris Sapolsky (born April 6, 1957) is an American neuroendocrinology researcher and author. He is currently a professor of biology, and professor of neurology and neurological sciences and, by courtesy, neurosurgery, at Stanford University. In addition, he is a research associate at the National Museums of Kenya.

Here he speaks about the gender aspect of the brains of mammals.
 


We have heard a great deal about gender being a spectrum, here Robert Sapolksy talks about the brain being on that same gender spectrum! ©Robert Sapolsky 2021
Robert Morris Sapolsky (born April 6, 1957) is an American neuroendocrinology researcher and author. He is currently a professor of biology, and professor of neurology and neurological sciences and, by courtesy, neurosurgery, at Stanford University. In addition, he is a research associate at the National Museums of Kenya.

Here he speaks about the gender aspect of the brains of mammals.

To be fair, behaviorally, we are "our brains". So really this is giving a materialistic observable reality to the fact of "brain sex".

Might I ask does he have a paper or any written text on this to approach?
 
To be fair, behaviorally, we are "our brains". So really this is giving a materialistic observable reality to the fact of "brain sex".
Yes, and the fact that the brain sex is the driver, not the genitals.
Might I ask does he have a paper or any written text on this to approach?
Unknown. I would like that too.
 


We have heard a great deal about gender being a spectrum, here Robert Sapolksy talks about the brain being on that same gender spectrum! ©Robert Sapolsky 2021
Robert Morris Sapolsky (born April 6, 1957) is an American neuroendocrinology researcher and author. He is currently a professor of biology, and professor of neurology and neurological sciences and, by courtesy, neurosurgery, at Stanford University. In addition, he is a research associate at the National Museums of Kenya.

Here he speaks about the gender aspect of the brains of mammals.

To be fair, behaviorally, we are "our brains". So really this is giving a materialistic observable reality to the fact of "brain sex".

Might I ask does he have a paper or any written text on this to approach?

We are our bodies, including our brains. Once we are adults our bodies somewhat show what we have made of ourselves.
 


We have heard a great deal about gender being a spectrum, here Robert Sapolksy talks about the brain being on that same gender spectrum! ©Robert Sapolsky 2021
Robert Morris Sapolsky (born April 6, 1957) is an American neuroendocrinology researcher and author. He is currently a professor of biology, and professor of neurology and neurological sciences and, by courtesy, neurosurgery, at Stanford University. In addition, he is a research associate at the National Museums of Kenya.

Here he speaks about the gender aspect of the brains of mammals.

To be fair, behaviorally, we are "our brains". So really this is giving a materialistic observable reality to the fact of "brain sex".

Might I ask does he have a paper or any written text on this to approach?

We are our bodies, including our brains. Once we are adults our bodies somewhat show what we have made of ourselves.

Well, you might consider this to be true, I am not "my body". I recognize I'm not even my whole brain. I'm impacted by those things, sure, but I could end up with ALS and still be getting on well enough. "My body" is just the life support system of "my brain" most of which is just a bunch of 'external to myself' capabilities that happen to be rubbing up very closely and responsively to the part that IS 'me'.
 


We have heard a great deal about gender being a spectrum, here Robert Sapolksy talks about the brain being on that same gender spectrum! ©Robert Sapolsky 2021
Robert Morris Sapolsky (born April 6, 1957) is an American neuroendocrinology researcher and author. He is currently a professor of biology, and professor of neurology and neurological sciences and, by courtesy, neurosurgery, at Stanford University. In addition, he is a research associate at the National Museums of Kenya.

Here he speaks about the gender aspect of the brains of mammals.

To be fair, behaviorally, we are "our brains". So really this is giving a materialistic observable reality to the fact of "brain sex".

Might I ask does he have a paper or any written text on this to approach?

We are our bodies, including our brains. Once we are adults our bodies somewhat show what we have made of ourselves.

Well, you might consider this to be true, I am not "my body". I recognize I'm not even my whole brain. I'm impacted by those things, sure, but I could end up with ALS and still be getting on well enough. "My body" is just the life support system of "my brain" most of which is just a bunch of 'external to myself' capabilities that happen to be rubbing up very closely and responsively to the part that IS 'me'.

If you are talking about a soul, they don't exist. You are your body.
 


We have heard a great deal about gender being a spectrum, here Robert Sapolksy talks about the brain being on that same gender spectrum! ©Robert Sapolsky 2021
Robert Morris Sapolsky (born April 6, 1957) is an American neuroendocrinology researcher and author. He is currently a professor of biology, and professor of neurology and neurological sciences and, by courtesy, neurosurgery, at Stanford University. In addition, he is a research associate at the National Museums of Kenya.

Here he speaks about the gender aspect of the brains of mammals.

To be fair, behaviorally, we are "our brains". So really this is giving a materialistic observable reality to the fact of "brain sex".

Might I ask does he have a paper or any written text on this to approach?

We are our bodies, including our brains. Once we are adults our bodies somewhat show what we have made of ourselves.

Well, you might consider this to be true, I am not "my body". I recognize I'm not even my whole brain. I'm impacted by those things, sure, but I could end up with ALS and still be getting on well enough. "My body" is just the life support system of "my brain" most of which is just a bunch of 'external to myself' capabilities that happen to be rubbing up very closely and responsively to the part that IS 'me'.

If you are talking about a soul, they don't exist. You are your body.

You could ask what I'm talking about. There's two very long threads in "other philosophical discussions" about it, mostly centering around "free will" and "compatibilism".

Or you could choose to be ignorant of what I mean .
 


We have heard a great deal about gender being a spectrum, here Robert Sapolksy talks about the brain being on that same gender spectrum! ©Robert Sapolsky 2021
Robert Morris Sapolsky (born April 6, 1957) is an American neuroendocrinology researcher and author. He is currently a professor of biology, and professor of neurology and neurological sciences and, by courtesy, neurosurgery, at Stanford University. In addition, he is a research associate at the National Museums of Kenya.

Here he speaks about the gender aspect of the brains of mammals.

To be fair, behaviorally, we are "our brains". So really this is giving a materialistic observable reality to the fact of "brain sex".

Might I ask does he have a paper or any written text on this to approach?

We are our bodies, including our brains. Once we are adults our bodies somewhat show what we have made of ourselves.

Well, you might consider this to be true, I am not "my body". I recognize I'm not even my whole brain. I'm impacted by those things, sure, but I could end up with ALS and still be getting on well enough. "My body" is just the life support system of "my brain" most of which is just a bunch of 'external to myself' capabilities that happen to be rubbing up very closely and responsively to the part that IS 'me'.

This is not, to my understanding, a very good description of the brain or the body. The brain is only the hub of a much larger nervous (and to a lesser but important extent cardiovascular) system, non-partible with most of the rest of "the body". Absent a body, the brain has no obvious function nor any ability to function.
 
This is not, to my understanding, a very good description of the brain or the body. The brain is only the hub of a much larger nervous (and to a lesser but important extent cardiovascular) system, non-partible with most of the rest of "the body". Absent a body, the brain has no obvious function nor any ability to function.
Without the brain, the body is just a pile of meat, bone, and gristle. The nervous system is controlled by the brain.
 
The nervous system is controlled by the brain.
That's not really true. Regulated, yes, but not controlled. The brain is, very fundamentally, set up to play a responsive role. It can determine responses, it can categorize responses, it can delay responses, and it can sublimate responses. But it cannot initiate anything. Foundationally, even structurally, it processeses the input it is given according to a mixture of inherited and acquired patterns. The prefrontal cortex of a human being is a wondrous, wondrous thing, but it does not meaningfully exist apart from its engine the body and its informants the bodily senses. The brain is also non-functional even as a regulatory agent without a network of hormones and neuropeptides that like the senses originate elsewhere in the body. This latter point is incredibly relevant to any discussion of sex and gender as neurologically represented.
 
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That's not really true. Regulated, yes, but not controlled. The brain is, very fundamentally, set up to play a responsive role. It can determine responses, it can categorize responses, it can delay responses, and it can sublimate responses. But it cannot initiate anything.
So if my brain tells the nerves in my arm to pick up my can of Pepsi so I can drink it, it's not initiating anything?
 
That's not really true. Regulated, yes, but not controlled. The brain is, very fundamentally, set up to play a responsive role. It can determine responses, it can categorize responses, it can delay responses, and it can sublimate responses. But it cannot initiate anything.
So if my brain tells the nerves in my arm to pick up my can of Pepsi so I can drink it, it's not initiating anything?
Why is your brain telling you that? Most likely, in response to signals that your body is thirsty—signals initiated by nerve receptors lining your mouth, tongue, digestive tract and other parts of your body, especially your muscles, Your brain processes the signal and initiates other signals in response to the information it receives.

Now, from a brain science perspective, why do humans create art? Tell stories? Invent new things? Where do those impulses come from? @Politesse or anyone else who knows.
 


We have heard a great deal about gender being a spectrum, here Robert Sapolksy talks about the brain being on that same gender spectrum! ©Robert Sapolsky 2021
Robert Morris Sapolsky (born April 6, 1957) is an American neuroendocrinology researcher and author. He is currently a professor of biology, and professor of neurology and neurological sciences and, by courtesy, neurosurgery, at Stanford University. In addition, he is a research associate at the National Museums of Kenya.

Here he speaks about the gender aspect of the brains of mammals.

To be fair, behaviorally, we are "our brains". So really this is giving a materialistic observable reality to the fact of "brain sex".

Might I ask does he have a paper or any written text on this to approach?

We are our bodies, including our brains. Once we are adults our bodies somewhat show what we have made of ourselves.

Well, you might consider this to be true, I am not "my body". I recognize I'm not even my whole brain. I'm impacted by those things, sure, but I could end up with ALS and still be getting on well enough. "My body" is just the life support system of "my brain" most of which is just a bunch of 'external to myself' capabilities that happen to be rubbing up very closely and responsively to the part that IS 'me'.

This is not, to my understanding, a very good description of the brain or the body. The brain is only the hub of a much larger nervous (and to a lesser but important extent cardiovascular) system, non-partible with most of the rest of "the body". Absent a body, the brain has no obvious function nor any ability to function.

The endocrine system is at least as important as, and probably more complex than, the nervous system.

We forget it at our peril.

It's popular to think that the central nervous system is the primary and most significant control mechanism; But we should be aware of just who it is that's telling us that.

Brains are fucking liars. They tell us that they are doing a fantastic job of modelling our surrounding reality, but actually they do a piss poor job of observation, and make shit up wholesale to fill in the gaps.

One of the largest of those gaps is emotional reactions, to which the brain (who was only ever along for the ride, while the endocrine system took charge) is very quick to rationalise as something it always planned to do.

Our behaviour is far less rational and far more emotional than we are typically aware. Our brains are the worst kind of senior management, who show up when the dust has settled with a detailed description of how the recent disaster was a part of the master plan all along.
 


We have heard a great deal about gender being a spectrum, here Robert Sapolksy talks about the brain being on that same gender spectrum! ©Robert Sapolsky 2021
Robert Morris Sapolsky (born April 6, 1957) is an American neuroendocrinology researcher and author. He is currently a professor of biology, and professor of neurology and neurological sciences and, by courtesy, neurosurgery, at Stanford University. In addition, he is a research associate at the National Museums of Kenya.

Here he speaks about the gender aspect of the brains of mammals.

To be fair, behaviorally, we are "our brains". So really this is giving a materialistic observable reality to the fact of "brain sex".

Might I ask does he have a paper or any written text on this to approach?

We are our bodies, including our brains. Once we are adults our bodies somewhat show what we have made of ourselves.

Well, you might consider this to be true, I am not "my body". I recognize I'm not even my whole brain. I'm impacted by those things, sure, but I could end up with ALS and still be getting on well enough. "My body" is just the life support system of "my brain" most of which is just a bunch of 'external to myself' capabilities that happen to be rubbing up very closely and responsively to the part that IS 'me'.

This is not, to my understanding, a very good description of the brain or the body. The brain is only the hub of a much larger nervous (and to a lesser but important extent cardiovascular) system, non-partible with most of the rest of "the body". Absent a body, the brain has no obvious function nor any ability to function.

Then your understanding is wrong.

Neural groups are not "non-partable". Sometimes where there boundaries are, are quite messy, but any neural group is going to have "layers" and "surfaces".

Granted this is going to be a description largely of how artificial neural groups are managed, but bear in mind the management models for HTMs, "Hierarchal temporal memories", the best digital model for our own neurons, is reverse engineered from how they are organized in our own brains

Layers are groups of neurons stacked right on top of the next, and they "surface" against layers. But between "stacks" there are additional "surfaces" which then direct at whole other "stacks"

Various "stacks" have a number of input surfaces, and some number of output surfaces, and on these surfaces you get what are called "sparse data representations" of data.

To one region of the brain, the inputs are "the surface of the optic nerve entering this stack". To the next layer, the initial layer's surface presents BOTH the initial image from the first surface AND an interpretation of what elements exist in it and roughly where. As you move down the hierarchy you get layers of interpretation added, but eventually that data has to go somewhere not just to be "interpreted", but to be ranked on it's interpretation, and feedback presented to the interpreter system: it ends up going somewhere.

But moreover not all data goes in all interpretations to all places. Stacks near the optic nerve generally don't get much of the "noise" of the audio (short of being on a powerful psychedelic, or synesthesia), and eventually all that interpreted data gets collated, and either resolved into an element of a "will", or a memory (for later use in the formation of "will").

But at some point, my expectation is that there are a number of tightly bound systems that together are "the me I experience". There is clearly a lot of me that is not "the me I experience".

I can chop off legs. I can chop off arms. I expect I could be brain-in-jar. I expect I could be piece-of-braon in jar.

How much of the "external to my seat" neurons, stacks, surfaces, could I lose before I wasn't me anymore? Well, I intend on doing that experiment some day, and intend on doing it to myself.

Sorry rest-of-my-body, them's the breaks.

As it is, there are active things in my own head that are very much notably "not directly me".

I know already that I am surrounded in my own meat by "unreliable interpreters" and "needy fucking children", both of which have learned that being cagey with "me" gets them very little, and both of which have all their work double- and triple-checked and "Common lies and malarkey" assumed and weeded out.

But they are there, and they are very apparently opaque, and I still have to deal with that bullshit flowing in on a "constrained surface".

Further, in the engineering of automations and control systems there is always a control hierarchy. At some point there is a central "script" which is responsible for behavior, and usually that system is a fairly slow, extremely mutable system with constrained access to things. And it's not "the whole data processing platform" (the person) or even "the whole environment" (the brain) though much of those things exist to either fulfill or support or execute on or in our cases write -- though sometimes that is an automatic function of -- "the script", the thing that actually natively describes and created in the most formal way "that which the system is doing".

All the rest of it, "how it does", and "what it does it to", in the vast majority of systems, is present and identifiable.

I daresay in a running system without any kind of debug symbols, no matter what you would be looking at, it would be hard to pick that out.

I also daresay that in any evolved system, there is a survival benefit to it being rather difficult to isolate and damage.

The endocrine system is important in a lot of ways. It tips balances which cause neural groups to start producing signals. If those signals are not produced or not noticed (these are in fact "sensory data" of a form...), then the brain, regardless of the activity of the endocrine system, is ignorant of it and it will drive zero behavior.

It is a driver of behavior in a very "fuzzy logic" sort of way.

I expect it's set up that way because if it weren't, the agent would be able to tweak it, and tweaking around with the "eat" alarm (or any of the more exotic alarms on endocrine activity), or the goad which inflames the "horny" would make for some rather problematic results in most cases.

It's clear that those inputs on the system can't be left "floating" or "absent", but those are inputs, not the agent itself.

The agent is still most certainly neural, but it's kind of narrow to think that systems that fundamentally show patterns of constraint have unconstrained access to everything.
 
That's not really true. Regulated, yes, but not controlled. The brain is, very fundamentally, set up to play a responsive role. It can determine responses, it can categorize responses, it can delay responses, and it can sublimate responses. But it cannot initiate anything.
So if my brain tells the nerves in my arm to pick up my can of Pepsi so I can drink it, it's not initiating anything?
Not really, no. Neither your realization that you are thirsty nor the culturally acquired behavior of overriding your basic instinct to find water with a commercial alternative are impulses that originate in your brain; it has been presented with all of this data and is compelled to come to a conclusion between all of it.
 
That's not really true. Regulated, yes, but not controlled. The brain is, very fundamentally, set up to play a responsive role. It can determine responses, it can categorize responses, it can delay responses, and it can sublimate responses. But it cannot initiate anything.
So if my brain tells the nerves in my arm to pick up my can of Pepsi so I can drink it, it's not initiating anything?
Not really, no. Neither your realization that you are thirsty nor the culturally acquired behavior of overriding your basic instinct to find water with a commercial alternative are impulses that originate in your brain; it has been presented with all of this data and is compelled to come to a conclusion between all of it.
Politesse, I invite you as well to read the free will/determinism threads.

The process that is so compelled by causal necessity is "us, being us, initiating the thing".
 
That's not really true. Regulated, yes, but not controlled. The brain is, very fundamentally, set up to play a responsive role. It can determine responses, it can categorize responses, it can delay responses, and it can sublimate responses. But it cannot initiate anything.
So if my brain tells the nerves in my arm to pick up my can of Pepsi so I can drink it, it's not initiating anything?
Not really, no. Neither your realization that you are thirsty nor the culturally acquired behavior of overriding your basic instinct to find water with a commercial alternative are impulses that originate in your brain; it has been presented with all of this data and is compelled to come to a conclusion between all of it.
Politesse, I invite you as well to read the free will/determinism threads.

The process that is so compelled by causal necessity is "us, being us, initiating the thing".
I lost interest in debates over free will a very long time ago. You may keep whatever philosophy you prefer, but the physical body is observable to the sciences, and does not need any sort of magic to explain its functioning.
 
That's not really true. Regulated, yes, but not controlled. The brain is, very fundamentally, set up to play a responsive role. It can determine responses, it can categorize responses, it can delay responses, and it can sublimate responses. But it cannot initiate anything.
So if my brain tells the nerves in my arm to pick up my can of Pepsi so I can drink it, it's not initiating anything?
Not really, no. Neither your realization that you are thirsty nor the culturally acquired behavior of overriding your basic instinct to find water with a commercial alternative are impulses that originate in your brain; it has been presented with all of this data and is compelled to come to a conclusion between all of it.
Politesse, I invite you as well to read the free will/determinism threads.

The process that is so compelled by causal necessity is "us, being us, initiating the thing".
I lost interest in debates over free will a very long time ago. You may keep whatever philosophy you prefer, but the physical body is observable to the sciences, and does not need any sort of magic to explain its functioning.
Heh, you're not saying anything I didn't and don't argue quite heavily for in that pair of threads.

I'm a materialist, insofar as I don't put my weight down on anything not grounded in material, observable reality. I am not a "dualist".

Nonetheless, a lifetime of studying systems theory leads me to the expectation that what is "me" is a constrained portion of the whole.

"Magic" is more a discussion of how to wiggle around some of those constraints to more meaningfully be as "more of the whole".

At least if approached from materialistic terms. I don't approach it really from other terms except as I repeatedly state, "in ways I won't put weight on."

Magic doesn't explain a thing though, which is part of why it's so badly done and why it's so frustrating getting any real answers even by the people who are passing good at it, and even understanding and explaining it won't really make it any easier to be good at doing it, and most people who even discuss it don't know shit about it.

So why would I think any esoteric discussion "explains" it? It merely discusses what is there (often vaguely), in some ways an observation of phenomena and seeming relationships of them. The observations of phenomena are at least close enough, however, to indicate that the human mind is not a monolith. There are constraints of information, and any experience of "self" localizes within one of those constrained regions.

This is in fact WHY people experience "spirits", "ghosts", "gods", and "demons" and "faeries" that seem like they are "outside themselves": because they literally are physically "outside themselves" as in "outside the region of their brain they have direct and unconstrained access too, but still part of the physical object 'the brain'".

As it is, I concern myself with free will because my job is literally to design 'wills'; do my best to guarantee they are 'free: Operate them to find out if the will accounted for enough provisional threats to 'freeness'; Develop a filter or other systemic geometry which prevents or mitigates those events such that they do not happen and the 'will' happens to be 'free' with respect to it's requirement every launch.

As such, the meanings of these things have to be well understood and it must be acknowledged that they exist sensibly as concepts in the universe.

Your lack of formalization does not imply in anyway a lack of formality to the concepts themselves.
 
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