Breakdown In Civil Order

[Derec]

No, they absolutely haven't.

The fuck they haven't!

Dems, as in the DNC and the political body of the Democratic party, have always been and remain now to be a staunchly conservative status-quo party fiscally and ideologically, though I'll grant you that they have veeeeeeerrrry slowly creeped insignificantly left on a handful of pop-cultural issues as relates to human rights.

DNC is just one part, and a relatively minor part at that, of the Democratic Party as a whole.
In the last few years the Democratic Party has replaced many of the moderate congresscritters with outright socialists like AOC, Bush, Omar etc. How is that not a lurch to the Left? And that lurch even affects the Biden presidency, as he has been dragged to the Left, adopting parts of Bernie's platform as so-called "Biden Agenda". The B³ plan is basically a slightly watered down version of Bernie's $6T spending plan.

But the Dems are not "left" relative to *anything* in the world - not to liberal political parties in other countries, not to American politics historically, not the intangible concept of "liberal" or "left" in a metaphysical sense.
They're a soft-right moderate party, and any attempt to classify them as anything else is the most pathetic and insipid act of ideological bumfuckery imaginable.

You only think that because you are very far left yourself. That skews your perspective.

 

[Derec]

But Republicans want to make it easier, not harder, to acquire firearms.

Well, I am not a Republican. I do not want to make it easier to acquire firearms either.

That said, Republicans do want serious crimes such as carjacking prosecuted as such and not downgraded to misdemeanor thefts for ideological reasons. I agree with them on that.

That could only logically result in more incidents like this one. Shouldn't you be thrilled, maybe even a little jealous that this woman got to kill a kiddie criminal, just Iike you guys are always fantasizing about?

Not "jealous". Btw, the kiddie criminal is alive. And has probably even been released from custody by now.

That's why you want guns in all the kindergarten classrooms, right, to shoot the shooters with?

I do not. More libelous statements by you.

You can't demand to live in a violent totalitarian hellscape 90% of the time, then change your mind and complain when someone puts your ideas into practice just because they did it in a democratic state.

The violent totalitarian hellscape is in big part due to the ineffective county prosecutor.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No, they absolutely haven't.

The fuck they haven't!

Dems, as in the DNC and the political body of the Democratic party, have always been and remain now to be a staunchly conservative status-quo party fiscally and ideologically, though I'll grant you that they have veeeeeeerrrry slowly creeped insignificantly left on a handful of pop-cultural issues as relates to human rights.

DNC is just one part, and a relatively minor part at that, of the Democratic Party as a whole.
In the last few years the Democratic Party has replaced many of the moderate congresscritters with outright socialists like AOC, Bush, Omar etc.

Many? As in several, a handful? Verses the the number of GOP House members that voted to ax electoral votes?

How is that not a lurch to the Left? And that lurch even affects the Biden presidency, as he has been dragged to the Left, adopting parts of Bernie's platform as so-called "Biden Agenda". The B³ plan is basically a slightly watered down version of Bernie's $6T spending plan.

America needs spending. We need a lot of spending. Our nursing home crisis... oh boy... can't wait for the "I told you" for that one. The GOP has starved the beast so successfully, cities, towns, counties aren't making ends meet in any sustainable sort of way. Instead all we hear about is the fucking wall. Still... they are fucking whining about a wall. People can't afford insulin, Eliquis, won't have a bed available in a nursing home... and the right-wing is shitting their pants over illegal immigrants and the fucking wall.

 

[thebeave]

No, they absolutely haven't.

The fuck they haven't!

Dems, as in the DNC and the political body of the Democratic party, have always been and remain now to be a staunchly conservative status-quo party fiscally and ideologically, though I'll grant you that they have veeeeeeerrrry slowly creeped insignificantly left on a handful of pop-cultural issues as relates to human rights.

DNC is just one part, and a relatively minor part at that, of the Democratic Party as a whole.
In the last few years the Democratic Party has replaced many of the moderate congresscritters with outright socialists like AOC, Bush, Omar etc.

Many? As in several, a handful? Verses the the number of GOP House members that voted to ax electoral votes?

How is that not a lurch to the Left? And that lurch even affects the Biden presidency, as he has been dragged to the Left, adopting parts of Bernie's platform as so-called "Biden Agenda". The B³ plan is basically a slightly watered down version of Bernie's $6T spending plan.

America needs spending. We need a lot of spending. Our nursing home crisis... oh boy... can't wait for the "I told you" for that one. The GOP has starved the beast so successfully, cities, towns, counties aren't making ends meet in any sustainable sort of way. Instead all we hear about is the fucking wall. Still... they are fucking whining about a wall. People can't afford insulin, Eliquis, won't have a bed available in a nursing home... and the right-wing is shitting their pants over illegal immigrants and the fucking wall.

What wall is the right wing shitting their pants over? This one?

US to fill border wall gaps at open area near Yuma, Arizona

PHOENIX (AP) — The Biden administration on Thursday authorized completion of the Trump-funded U.S.-Mexico border wall in an open area of southern Arizona near Yuma that has become one of the busiest corridors for illegal crossings.

Biden had pledged during his campaign to cease all future wall construction, but the administration later agreed to some barriers, citing safety. The Department of Homeland Security said Thursday the work to close four wide gaps in the wall near Yuma will better protect migrants who can slip down a slope or drown walking through a low section of the Colorado River.

 

[prideandfall]

No, they absolutely haven't.

The fuck they haven't!

That is correct, they haven't. Not at all. Not even a little bit.

Dems, as in the DNC and the political body of the Democratic party, have always been and remain now to be a staunchly conservative status-quo party fiscally and ideologically, though I'll grant you that they have veeeeeeerrrry slowly creeped insignificantly left on a handful of pop-cultural issues as relates to human rights.

DNC is just one part, and a relatively minor part at that, of the Democratic Party as a whole.
In the last few years the Democratic Party has replaced many of the moderate congresscritters with outright socialists like AOC, Bush, Omar etc.
How is that not a lurch to the Left?

Well for starters, it's not a lurch to the left because as per usual you have absolutely no idea what the word 'socialist' means, so you're just using it as a noise you grunt to indicate that you don't like something.
You're misusing the term so powerfully that it's completely meaningless. You're not conveying any information or intent when you use the word so utterly without context or relation to its definition. You have completely failed in every meaningful aspect of the very concept of human communication.

Not one single elected official in the U.S. is within mortaring distance of being a socialist, and none of them are particularly close to being democratic socialists either.
AOC is a politely moderate-right politician, Sanders is is probably soft-left of center, and they're about the most extreme cases we have.
Neither of them are leftists by any stretch.

And that lurch even affects the Biden presidency, as he has been dragged to the Left, adopting parts of Bernie's platform as so-called "Biden Agenda". The B³ plan is basically a slightly watered down version of Bernie's $6T spending plan.

oOOooOOooo nnnnnooooo the center-right spending plan has had some minor parts of it filter up, teh horrer.

But the Dems are not "left" relative to *anything* in the world - not to liberal political parties in other countries, not to American politics historically, not the intangible concept of "liberal" or "left" in a metaphysical sense.
They're a soft-right moderate party, and any attempt to classify them as anything else is the most pathetic and insipid act of ideological bumfuckery imaginable.

You only think that because you are very far left yourself. That skews your perspective.

The fact I am the furthest left member of this board is what gives me the needed perspective to see just how right politics are in the U.S.

Everything Biden has done in his time in office, including the BBB stuff, is soft moderate-right answers to modern day problems, doing what conservatives had been doing for the last 200 years up until the late 70s when Republicans went completely batshit insane and stopped governing at all and became a thread on 4chan that is for some reason in control of half of our government.
It's all cautious and reserved band-aids for major problems using as little money as possible in order to mollify the populace so they stop their complaining and go back to working and shitting out kids.

This is what Democrats understand and Republicans don't: throw the proles a small bone to keep them placated and you keep the economic power in the hands of the few where they've always been, and people complain less.
Pry open their mouths and shit in their necks and the teeming masses will eventually start to fight back... this is why there's so much unrest in this country, because Republicans got blinded by their pig-ignorant sister-fucking hillbilly base into thinking they could start saying the quiet part loud and stop even pretending to be a body of elected government officials (as opposed to ghouls trying to enact a religious oligarchy and enriching themselves while reveling in depravation and excess) and nobody would notice or care.

Well news flash, when you create civil unrest and social discord as the basis for your political agenda, sooner or later there are consequences.
Democrats doing the absolute barest possible minimum to kind of sort of clean up the mess Republicans have left is one consequence, and the crime you're always flipping the fuck out about is the other one.

 

[Politesse]

No, they absolutely haven't.

The fuck they haven't!

Dems, as in the DNC and the political body of the Democratic party, have always been and remain now to be a staunchly conservative status-quo party fiscally and ideologically, though I'll grant you that they have veeeeeeerrrry slowly creeped insignificantly left on a handful of pop-cultural issues as relates to human rights.

DNC is just one part, and a relatively minor part at that, of the Democratic Party as a whole.
In the last few years the Democratic Party has replaced many of the moderate congresscritters with outright socialists like AOC, Bush, Omar etc.

Many? As in several, a handful? Verses the the number of GOP House members that voted to ax electoral votes?

How is that not a lurch to the Left? And that lurch even affects the Biden presidency, as he has been dragged to the Left, adopting parts of Bernie's platform as so-called "Biden Agenda". The B³ plan is basically a slightly watered down version of Bernie's $6T spending plan.

America needs spending. We need a lot of spending. Our nursing home crisis... oh boy... can't wait for the "I told you" for that one. The GOP has starved the beast so successfully, cities, towns, counties aren't making ends meet in any sustainable sort of way. Instead all we hear about is the fucking wall. Still... they are fucking whining about a wall. People can't afford insulin, Eliquis, won't have a bed available in a nursing home... and the right-wing is shitting their pants over illegal immigrants and the fucking wall.

What wall is the right wing shitting their pants over? This one?

US to fill border wall gaps at open area near Yuma, Arizona

PHOENIX (AP) — The Biden administration on Thursday authorized completion of the Trump-funded U.S.-Mexico border wall in an open area of southern Arizona near Yuma that has become one of the busiest corridors for illegal crossings.

Biden had pledged during his campaign to cease all future wall construction, but the administration later agreed to some barriers, citing safety. The Department of Homeland Security said Thursday the work to close four wide gaps in the wall near Yuma will better protect migrants who can slip down a slope or drown walking through a low section of the Colorado River.

No great surprise there. You can vote for whomever you like, American policy is ultimately controlled by the same people either way.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No, they absolutely haven't.

The fuck they haven't!

Dems, as in the DNC and the political body of the Democratic party, have always been and remain now to be a staunchly conservative status-quo party fiscally and ideologically, though I'll grant you that they have veeeeeeerrrry slowly creeped insignificantly left on a handful of pop-cultural issues as relates to human rights.

DNC is just one part, and a relatively minor part at that, of the Democratic Party as a whole.
In the last few years the Democratic Party has replaced many of the moderate congresscritters with outright socialists like AOC, Bush, Omar etc.

Many? As in several, a handful? Verses the the number of GOP House members that voted to ax electoral votes?

How is that not a lurch to the Left? And that lurch even affects the Biden presidency, as he has been dragged to the Left, adopting parts of Bernie's platform as so-called "Biden Agenda". The B³ plan is basically a slightly watered down version of Bernie's $6T spending plan.

America needs spending. We need a lot of spending. Our nursing home crisis... oh boy... can't wait for the "I told you" for that one. The GOP has starved the beast so successfully, cities, towns, counties aren't making ends meet in any sustainable sort of way. Instead all we hear about is the fucking wall. Still... they are fucking whining about a wall. People can't afford insulin, Eliquis, won't have a bed available in a nursing home... and the right-wing is shitting their pants over illegal immigrants and the fucking wall.

What wall is the right wing shitting their pants over?

Were you actually able to ask that with a straight face?

 

[prideandfall]

No great surprise there. You can vote for whomever you like, American policy is ultimately controlled by the same people either way.

IMO it's not quite as simple as that, and I think just shrugging and going "meh, both sides" is reductive and ultimately a disservice for yourself.

The more precise view would be that American policy is ultimately in service to the same goal either way, but how the two parties go about servicing that goal wildly differs.

The goal is the oppression of the general population and the hoarding of all possible resources into the hands of an elite few, at the expense of all else and to the detriment of 99.9999% of the humans living on the planet.
That has been the goal of civilization since civilization has existed, and the only question through the ages has been the way in which the elite few deal with keeping everyone else in line.

Democrats seem to go with "give them juuuust enough to keep them under the misery thresh hold that would inspire them to revolt" and Republicans go with "fuck 'em, what're they gonna do about it?" and relying on religious indoctrination and nationalistic jingoism to make enough of the population actively participate in their own abuse that society can't reach the critical mass point of unrest required for real change.

 

[Politesse]

No great surprise there. You can vote for whomever you like, American policy is ultimately controlled by the same people either way.

IMO it's not quite as simple as that, and I think just shrugging and going "meh, both sides" is reductive and ultimately a disservice for yourself.

The more precise view would be that American policy is ultimately in service to the same goal either way, but how the two parties go about servicing that goal wildly differs.

The goal is the oppression of the general population and the hoarding of all possible resources into the hands of an elite few, at the expense of all else and to the detriment of 99.9999% of the humans living on the planet.
That has been the goal of civilization since civilization has existed, and the only question through the ages has been the way in which the elite few deal with keeping everyone else in line.

Democrats seem to go with "give them juuuust enough to keep them under the misery thresh hold that would inspire them to revolt" and Republicans go with "fuck 'em, what're they gonna do about it?" and relying on religious indoctrination and nationalistic jingoism to make enough of the population actively participate in their own abuse that society can't reach the critical mass point of unrest required for real change.

I didn't say I don't think it makes a difference. One of our political parties is openly staging an insurrection against the the state. I'm just never surprised when the US continues on in its core policies, regardless of whatever president is supposedly calling the shots at the moment .

And ever since the abolition of slavery, pretending to take a firm stance on illegal immigration has been a fundamental strategy for keeping the lower tiers of the labor force divided against themselves. They don't truly take steps to end it; the point is to make grand theatrical gestures like easily permeable walls, to give the impression that "the outsiders are evil and we are doing something about it, you can to! your fellow worker is your enemy, they want to steal your prosperity. Only ICE can defend you." This is one arena in which I certainly do think that civil order in the United States is under constant peril. Racial animus is an ugly tool to wield.

 

[thebeave]

No, they absolutely haven't.

The fuck they haven't!

Dems, as in the DNC and the political body of the Democratic party, have always been and remain now to be a staunchly conservative status-quo party fiscally and ideologically, though I'll grant you that they have veeeeeeerrrry slowly creeped insignificantly left on a handful of pop-cultural issues as relates to human rights.

DNC is just one part, and a relatively minor part at that, of the Democratic Party as a whole.
In the last few years the Democratic Party has replaced many of the moderate congresscritters with outright socialists like AOC, Bush, Omar etc.

Many? As in several, a handful? Verses the the number of GOP House members that voted to ax electoral votes?

How is that not a lurch to the Left? And that lurch even affects the Biden presidency, as he has been dragged to the Left, adopting parts of Bernie's platform as so-called "Biden Agenda". The B³ plan is basically a slightly watered down version of Bernie's $6T spending plan.

America needs spending. We need a lot of spending. Our nursing home crisis... oh boy... can't wait for the "I told you" for that one. The GOP has starved the beast so successfully, cities, towns, counties aren't making ends meet in any sustainable sort of way. Instead all we hear about is the fucking wall. Still... they are fucking whining about a wall. People can't afford insulin, Eliquis, won't have a bed available in a nursing home... and the right-wing is shitting their pants over illegal immigrants and the fucking wall.

What wall is the right wing shitting their pants over?

Were you actually able to ask that with a straight face?

It was a sarcastic, rhetorical question. What exactly is your point? You're complaining about needing to spend money on nursing homes, etc and not border walls like the right wing wants to do, but Biden is spending money on border walls, contrary to his campaign promise that he wouldn't add a single foot to the border wall. Is whining about spending money on border walls a worse thing than actually doing it?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What wall is the right wing shitting their pants over?

Were you actually able to ask that with a straight face?

It was a sarcastic, rhetorical question. What exactly is your point?

You mean other than conflating construction of wall segments under the Biden Administration (and the Obama Administration) with the "BUILD THE WALL AND MAKE MEXICO PAY FOR IT" message that is still being campaigned on by the likes of JD Vance?

 

[Jarhyn]

What wall is the right wing shitting their pants over?

Were you actually able to ask that with a straight face?

It was a sarcastic, rhetorical question. What exactly is your point?

You mean other than conflating construction of wall segments under the Biden Administration (and the Obama Administration) with the "BUILD THE WALL AND MAKE MEXICO PAY FOR IT" message that is still being campaigned on by the likes of JD Vance?

Not to mention that Biden actually did in fact get Mexico to pay for it, among other border security related things.

I'm averse to the wall segments in the first place, and it makes me kind of pissed that he participated in any of that.

I'm not ok with that even if it makes Trump look like more of a useless dumbshit.

 

[Gospel]

If only we treated our societal ills like the wall. When something is broken you try to fix it instead of just running diagnostics after diagnostics in the form of statistics and do nothing. For example the black community (our community) has been dealing with a youth trying to find their own way (any way) that is not what their elders have done. Fast money has been the answer since the 1950s when Not wanting to fit in with the white man by working for them for crumbs. The hood mentality was born long ago and has since evolved and lodge itself so deep in my community that I see no chance of doing away with it short of something extreme. It's hard to convince people that the life of crime isn't the way when an honest living means being in a room with 100 other people where only one might get out before they die verses not entering that room and taking what you can now and dying as a result.

 

[TSwizzle]

A similar program already exists in San Francisco Tenderloin area that is a failure but by golly, the progressives will press ahead anyway;

Los Angeles could soon become one of three cities in California to provide supervised injection sites under legislation passed by the state Senate Monday and heading to Gov. Gavin Newsom's desk. Newsom said in 2018 he was "very, very open" to the idea of a pilot program to allow legal drug injection sites, splitting with his predecessor Jerry Brown, who vetoed a similar bill that same year. The bill, authored by Sen. Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, passed the state Senate by a 21-11 vote Monday. It would allow the city and county of Los Angeles -- along with San Francisco and Oakland -- to provide spaces where people can consume pre-obtained drugs with provided clean needles. Trained professionals would be on site with supplies such as Narcan to assist in the event of an overdose.

News

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Failure? How so?

 

[Oleg]

A similar program already exists in San Francisco Tenderloin area that is a failure but by golly, the progressives will press ahead anyway;

Los Angeles could soon become one of three cities in California to provide supervised injection sites under legislation passed by the state Senate Monday and heading to Gov. Gavin Newsom's desk. Newsom said in 2018 he was "very, very open" to the idea of a pilot program to allow legal drug injection sites, splitting with his predecessor Jerry Brown, who vetoed a similar bill that same year. The bill, authored by Sen. Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, passed the state Senate by a 21-11 vote Monday. It would allow the city and county of Los Angeles -- along with San Francisco and Oakland -- to provide spaces where people can consume pre-obtained drugs with provided clean needles. Trained professionals would be on site with supplies such as Narcan to assist in the event of an overdose.

News

Isn’t it better to help people get of these drugs than to encourage their drug dependency?

 

[Copernicus]

A similar program already exists in San Francisco Tenderloin area that is a failure but by golly, the progressives will press ahead anyway;

Los Angeles could soon become one of three cities in California to provide supervised injection sites under legislation passed by the state Senate Monday and heading to Gov. Gavin Newsom's desk. Newsom said in 2018 he was "very, very open" to the idea of a pilot program to allow legal drug injection sites, splitting with his predecessor Jerry Brown, who vetoed a similar bill that same year. The bill, authored by Sen. Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, passed the state Senate by a 21-11 vote Monday. It would allow the city and county of Los Angeles -- along with San Francisco and Oakland -- to provide spaces where people can consume pre-obtained drugs with provided clean needles. Trained professionals would be on site with supplies such as Narcan to assist in the event of an overdose.

News

Isn’t it better to help people get of these drugs than to encourage their drug dependency?

Perhaps it's more a question of what form the discouragement takes. The traditional conservative form is prohibition--treating drug users as criminals and punishing them. That works to deter some people from trying drugs and to scare some addicts into trying to detox. Prohibition doesn't seem to make much of a dent in general drug use in the population. The alternative is treating addicts as people suffering an illness that requires medical attention. That works better with addicts who want to make the effort to fight the addiction. I assume that the injection sites try to steer users into voluntary detox programs and rehabilitative services. Proponents claim that decriminalization works better than prohibition and criminal punishment, because it does a better job of encouraging them to recover from their illness.

 

[Oleg]

A similar program already exists in San Francisco Tenderloin area that is a failure but by golly, the progressives will press ahead anyway;

Los Angeles could soon become one of three cities in California to provide supervised injection sites under legislation passed by the state Senate Monday and heading to Gov. Gavin Newsom's desk. Newsom said in 2018 he was "very, very open" to the idea of a pilot program to allow legal drug injection sites, splitting with his predecessor Jerry Brown, who vetoed a similar bill that same year. The bill, authored by Sen. Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, passed the state Senate by a 21-11 vote Monday. It would allow the city and county of Los Angeles -- along with San Francisco and Oakland -- to provide spaces where people can consume pre-obtained drugs with provided clean needles. Trained professionals would be on site with supplies such as Narcan to assist in the event of an overdose.

News

Isn’t it better to help people get of these drugs than to encourage their drug dependency?

Perhaps it's more a question of what form the discouragement takes. The traditional conservative form is prohibition--treating drug users as criminals and punishing them. That works to deter some people from trying drugs and to scare some addicts into trying to detox. Prohibition doesn't seem to make much of a dent in general drug use in the population. The alternative is treating addicts as people suffering an illness that requires medical attention. That works better with addicts who want to make the effort to fight the addiction. I assume that the injection sites try to steer users into voluntary detox programs and rehabilitative services. Proponents claim that decriminalization works better than prohibition and criminal punishment, because it does a better job of encouraging them to recover from their illness.

You can decriminalize without abetting drug use. A bit cynical, but seems there’s little concern in actually helping people and instead growing government programs which transfer taxpayer money to special interests.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What is canned conservative text?

 

[Jarhyn]

If only we treated our societal ills like the wall. When something is broken you try to fix it instead of just running diagnostics after diagnostics in the form of statistics and do nothing. For example the black community (our community) has been dealing with a youth trying to find their own way (any way) that is not what their elders have done. Fast money has been the answer since the 1950s when Not wanting to fit in with the white man by working for them for crumbs. The hood mentality was born long ago and has since evolved and lodge itself so deep in my community that I see no chance of doing away with it short of something extreme. It's hard to convince people that the life of crime isn't the way when an honest living means being in a room with 100 other people where only one might get out before they die verses not entering that room and taking what you can now and dying as a result.

This is what it really gets down to, ya.

The only way this culture gets answered in a way that actually addresses the problem is with an answer that says "the social contract is on, not only will participation net you something, but will always look for you and folks like you specifically on the dimension of 'are behind in the system'".

It's like D&D: it was quickly discovered in any group that didn't suck that I ever played in that experience penalties needed to be closable, and this requires mechanisms, even if they are not seen as "fair" by the neurotically competitive.