Can Roe v Wade be overturned?

[Keith&Co.]

So, did I miss it, or did HL ever give an answer on circumcision?

If he did, it was posted as a reply to a claim about jet fuel melting I-beams.

 

[Rhea]

Indeed, religiously speaking, an abortion means that a “soul” goes straight to heaven and gets a perfect body instantly with no suffering of any kind.

God willed that THIS soul, because he knew it was going to be aborted, would be welcomed straight into his arms....

Until cruel human zealots, through violence and oppression of god’s daughters, interrupted God’s plan and forced that fetus to instead endure suffering on earth and possible soul-destroying apostasy - instead of god’s planned immediate birth into heaven. God tried to spare that soul a terrible suffering by making abortion its fate. But self-righteous arrogant oppressors thwarted god’s plan by using their free will to make others suffer.


Satans work by these anti-god’s-plan-ers?



For the woman who chooses abortion, the worst she has done is commit a sin unto herself and send the fetus straight to god.

But for the anti-choice forced-birthers, the worst they have done is cause the fetus to come to term and live a brutal life that drives it away from god’s message and lands it eventually in hell for eternity.


Who’s the real asshole here?
(Corollary: why are Christians so freaking terrified of getting to heaven or seeing someone else go there?)

In no way does it follow that we should legalize killing babies just so they go to Heaven. These arguments are scraping the bottom of the barrel now. Every rational Christian would laugh uproariously at your suggestion until possibly they cracked a rib from laughter.

Of course it follows.
And it’s not “legalizing killing babies,” of course. It is KEEPING legal the rights of women to control their own bodies.

And you think Christians would laugh at the suggestion that people going straight to heaven without suffering, having been martyred by non-believers is BETTER than a Christian causing someone to lose faith and go to hell?

Wow, you and they don’t really believe in heaven very hard, do you. I always find that peculiar about you people. It’s like you WANT to suffer. It’s like you don’t realize that your god ALREADY DOES THIS to 1/3 of pregnancies. Takes those little fetuses right to heaven. “Killing Babies^tm,” if you want to call it that, but it’s your god that does it to at least a third and probably a half of all pregnancies. He did it to two of mine.

Anyway, yah, it’s totally peculiar how sometimes you like the martyrs and other times you want to force them to live as children in brutal punishment instead. It’s like - you don’t actually believe in heaven.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Anyway, yah, it’s totally peculiar how sometimes you like the martyrs and other times you want to force them to live as children in brutal punishment instead. It’s like - you don’t actually believe in heaven.

Or God, for that matter. We certainly can't do anything that isn't a part of God's ineffable plan, after all. At the same time that we can. At the same time that we can't. At the same time that we can.

Always when it suits the argument.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Except there's no age of accountability in the Bible. Babies that die don't go automatically to Heaven. Limbo was invented exactly because this fact seemed unjust to some philosophers. Any baby that died between birth and baptism had no way into Paradise. So aborted fetuses are not martyrs.

Of course, the bible also makes clear that abortions are not murder. Fetuses are not alive, so they can NOT be martyred.

So it's a wash.

 

[Gun Nut]

IF your god "can make good things come out of bad things", then your god can make bad things not happen. If your god chooses not to, then he is evil... or non-existent. One of those.

and the next logical step would be, "if your god makes good of what seems bad, then abortion seeming bad to you is just your failure to recognize gods good plan".

There is good that comes out of bad things. A man gets into an car accident and gets rushed to the emergency room and he recovers and falls in love with the nurse who was treating him. He says, "That car accident was the best thing that ever happened to me."

You see?

Yes, that is a good example. I see very clearly... Clearly enough to admit that god's plan is far too complex for me to comprehend, so I do not pretend (as others seem to love doing) that I can say what someone else should or should not do to be a part of His plan "correctly".

A woman goes to the doctors office to have an abortion.. she falls in love with a doctor there and they live happily ever after.
A couple decides it is not the right time to have a baby, so they go to the doctors office for an abortion. Later, they end up opening a business that they never would have done if they had a child, which saves the lives of hundreds of people though the services they provide.
A single woman decides not to have a baby, so aborts it. Unbeknownst to any man, that baby would have grown up to become the worst church shooting serial killer the world ever seen.

Gods plan is far beyond you or anything you could ever dream of imagining... trying to tell someone else what that plan is, should be, or how to "do it right" is one of the biggest sins I know.

If you think someone should not be doing something, then that is just so special of you.... how cute. look at the little silly mortals playing gods and men.

 

[Gun Nut]

and the next logical step would be, "if your god makes good of what seems bad, then abortion seeming bad to you is just your failure to recognize gods good plan".

Indeed, religiously speaking, an abortion means that a “soul” goes straight to heaven and gets a perfect body instantly with no suffering of any kind.

God willed that THIS soul, because he knew it was going to be aborted, would be welcomed straight into his arms....

Until cruel human zealots, through violence and oppression of god’s daughters, interrupted God’s plan and forced that fetus to instead endure suffering on earth and possible soul-destroying apostasy - instead of god’s planned immediate birth into heaven. God tried to spare that soul a terrible suffering by making abortion its fate. But self-righteous arrogant oppressors thwarted god’s plan by using their free will to make others suffer.


Satans work by these anti-god’s-plan-ers?



For the woman who chooses abortion, the worst she has done is commit a sin unto herself and send the fetus straight to god.

But for the anti-choice forced-birthers, the worst they have done is cause the fetus to come to term and live a brutal life that drives it away from god’s message and lands it eventually in hell for eternity.


Who’s the real asshole here?
(Corollary: why are Christians so freaking terrified of getting to heaven or seeing someone else go there?)

In no way does it follow that we should legalize killing babies just so they go to Heaven. These arguments are scraping the bottom of the barrel now. Every rational Christian would laugh uproariously at your suggestion until possibly they cracked a rib from laughter.

"Abortion" is "killing babies" like the sacrament is "cannibalism".

God has educated us (or, those that actually read the bible, and not those that just listen to blasphemers on TV talk about their twisted versions of truth), what life and the spirit is.... and therefore what a baby is and what it is not.

If it has not taken breath, then it has no spirit. Period. It is actually quite simple. Any idiot with a 5th grade reading level can plainly read that without any help. Many will say that "birth" is that line between "baby" and "not a baby"... that is correct for the wrong reasons. It is actually not "birth", but after that first slap that gets it crying so that it accepts god's gift of spirit.

To say otherwise is is to reject god's word for your own personal preferences... or, as it is properly called, blasphemous.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Half-Life, why do you hate God?

 

[Gun Nut]

Half-Life, why do you hate God?

I am sure he does not hate god... that's a terrible thing to say. Granted, denying god's plainly given word and making up some "rule" that just so coincidentally happens to perfectly align with his personal preferences is also pretty darn terrible... so y'all are even.

God wants me to have your money.... right alongside that kind of thinking.

Half-Life... I am sure your intentions are good. Keep in mind, for your own salvation, that it's just like God's answer to some of your prayers may be "NO"... sometimes God's rules just will not align with your very special personal preferences.

You think Jews WANT to never even know what bacon tastes like!!???!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Because we have free will. You guys are just going in circles now.

How does free will enter into some good child getting terminal cancer? Or babies born with spinabifada?

That's not free will. That's just unfortunate.

Duh!

The problem is you blamed bad things on free will. Now you are contradicting yourself. That's what tends to happen when you regurgitate propaganda rather than actually think.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Because we have free will. You guys are just going in circles now.

Repeating this doesn't make it relevant. Free will lets us make bad choices, it doesn't make bad things happen for other reasons.

This discussion never goes anywhere on forums. I ask atheists, "Should God do everything for us?" and it always ends up with atheists flip-flopping back and forth between yes and no.

Should we work or have God give us money?
Should I have to drive to the grocery store or should God fill my fridge magically?
Should I have to use my remote to turn on my TV or should God do it for me?

Atheists can never agree on where the line starts and stops.

I see no discussion, I see you spouting the closest relevant bit of propaganda whether it's relevant or not.

The question was what does free will have do to with bad things that bear no apparent relationship to anybody's decisions. For example, the mutation that cost my mother's vision. It occurred early in pregnancy, long before she could have made any decision. Likewise, long before sin was possible and thus it can't be punishment for a sin.

 

[Half-Life]

Indeed, religiously speaking, an abortion means that a “soul” goes straight to heaven and gets a perfect body instantly with no suffering of any kind.

God willed that THIS soul, because he knew it was going to be aborted, would be welcomed straight into his arms....

Until cruel human zealots, through violence and oppression of god’s daughters, interrupted God’s plan and forced that fetus to instead endure suffering on earth and possible soul-destroying apostasy - instead of god’s planned immediate birth into heaven. God tried to spare that soul a terrible suffering by making abortion its fate. But self-righteous arrogant oppressors thwarted god’s plan by using their free will to make others suffer.


Satans work by these anti-god’s-plan-ers?



For the woman who chooses abortion, the worst she has done is commit a sin unto herself and send the fetus straight to god.

But for the anti-choice forced-birthers, the worst they have done is cause the fetus to come to term and live a brutal life that drives it away from god’s message and lands it eventually in hell for eternity.


Who’s the real asshole here?
(Corollary: why are Christians so freaking terrified of getting to heaven or seeing someone else go there?)

In no way does it follow that we should legalize killing babies just so they go to Heaven. These arguments are scraping the bottom of the barrel now. Every rational Christian would laugh uproariously at your suggestion until possibly they cracked a rib from laughter.

Of course it follows.
And it’s not “legalizing killing babies,” of course. It is KEEPING legal the rights of women to control their own bodies.

And you think Christians would laugh at the suggestion that people going straight to heaven without suffering, having been martyred by non-believers is BETTER than a Christian causing someone to lose faith and go to hell?

Wow, you and they don’t really believe in heaven very hard, do you. I always find that peculiar about you people. It’s like you WANT to suffer. It’s like you don’t realize that your god ALREADY DOES THIS to 1/3 of pregnancies. Takes those little fetuses right to heaven. “Killing Babies^tm,” if you want to call it that, but it’s your god that does it to at least a third and probably a half of all pregnancies. He did it to two of mine.

Anyway, yah, it’s totally peculiar how sometimes you like the martyrs and other times you want to force them to live as children in brutal punishment instead. It’s like - you don’t actually believe in heaven.

Once again, God doing things for reasons unknown does not mean that we can also engage in the same things.

Imagine a cashier at McDonald's walks into the bosses' office and says "I'll take care of your phone calls and paperwork today. You go cashier instead." You can bet the boss will say "Get out of of the office and go back to the register."

 

[ZiprHead]

Of course it follows.
And it’s not “legalizing killing babies,” of course. It is KEEPING legal the rights of women to control their own bodies.

And you think Christians would laugh at the suggestion that people going straight to heaven without suffering, having been martyred by non-believers is BETTER than a Christian causing someone to lose faith and go to hell?

Wow, you and they don’t really believe in heaven very hard, do you. I always find that peculiar about you people. It’s like you WANT to suffer. It’s like you don’t realize that your god ALREADY DOES THIS to 1/3 of pregnancies. Takes those little fetuses right to heaven. “Killing Babies^tm,” if you want to call it that, but it’s your god that does it to at least a third and probably a half of all pregnancies. He did it to two of mine.

Anyway, yah, it’s totally peculiar how sometimes you like the martyrs and other times you want to force them to live as children in brutal punishment instead. It’s like - you don’t actually believe in heaven.

Once again, God doing things for reasons unknown does not mean that we can also engage in the same things.

Imagine a cashier at McDonald's walks into the bosses' office and says "I'll take care of your phone calls and paperwork today. You go cashier instead." You can bet the boss will say "Get out of of the office and go back to the register."

Prove god did anything.

 

[Half-Life]

Prove god did anything.

I can not. But, you can not prove God didn't do anything either.

 

[ZiprHead]

Prove god did anything.

I can not. But, you can not prove God didn't do anything either.

Another one of your problems, you have no idea how logic works. It shows in how easily you are brainwashed.

 

[Half-Life]

Prove god did anything.

I can not. But, you can not prove God didn't do anything either.

Another one of your problems, you have no idea how logic works. It shows in how easily you are brainwashed.

No, that IS how logic works.

I can not point to something concrete and say, "God definitely did that."

Just as you can not point to something concrete and say, "God definitely did not do that."

 

[Gun Nut]

This discussion never goes anywhere on forums. I ask atheists, "Should God do everything for us?" and it always ends up with atheists flip-flopping back and forth between yes and no.

Should we work or have God give us money?
Should I have to drive to the grocery store or should God fill my fridge magically?
Should I have to use my remote to turn on my TV or should God do it for me?

Atheists can never agree on where the line starts and stops.

I see no discussion, I see you spouting the closest relevant bit of propaganda whether it's relevant or not.

The question was what does free will have do to with bad things that bear no apparent relationship to anybody's decisions. For example, the mutation that cost my mother's vision. It occurred early in pregnancy, long before she could have made any decision. Likewise, long before sin was possible and thus it can't be punishment for a sin.

Half-Life. Atheists do not believe in God. I have easily accepted this about them... why are you having trouble with it?

What Atheists like to do is use their arguments to make it seem like you are contradicting yourself (which is very easy to do if you are not well trained in bible study)... or rather, that the bible contradicts itself.

It's not that they "say one thing and then say the opposite"... it's that they tolerate a supposition for the purpose of discussion... that is to say, there is a whole lot of "well, IF (big if) <insert Biblical claim> THEN.... <insert logical complaint>"
I see how this can get confusing... "How can God do xyz and also claim abc.." - You are just wasting everyone's time by saying, "AHA! you DO acknowledge god!!!" No they don;t... they are just giving you all the rope you need to hang your own poorly formed arguments from.

 

[Half-Life]

This discussion never goes anywhere on forums. I ask atheists, "Should God do everything for us?" and it always ends up with atheists flip-flopping back and forth between yes and no.

Should we work or have God give us money?
Should I have to drive to the grocery store or should God fill my fridge magically?
Should I have to use my remote to turn on my TV or should God do it for me?

Atheists can never agree on where the line starts and stops.

I see no discussion, I see you spouting the closest relevant bit of propaganda whether it's relevant or not.

The question was what does free will have do to with bad things that bear no apparent relationship to anybody's decisions. For example, the mutation that cost my mother's vision. It occurred early in pregnancy, long before she could have made any decision. Likewise, long before sin was possible and thus it can't be punishment for a sin.

Half-Life. Atheists do not believe in God. I have easily accepted this about them... why are you having trouble with it?

What Atheists like to do is use their arguments to make it seem like you are contradicting yourself (which is very easy to do if you are not well trained in bible study)... or rather, that the bible contradicts itself.

It's not that they "say one thing and then say the opposite"... it's that they tolerate a supposition for the purpose of discussion... that is to say, there is a whole lot of "well, IF (big if) <insert Biblical claim> THEN.... <insert logical complaint>"
I see how this can get confusing... "How can God do xyz and also claim abc.." - You are just wasting everyone's time by saying, "AHA! you DO acknowledge god!!!" No they don;t... they are just giving you all the rope you need to hang your own poorly formed arguments from.

But my point is they do not believe in God because they looked around and said, "I can't see no God. Guess He's not real." This is the most intellectually dishonest position one can take. I am trying to explain why that position is wrong.

A lot of atheists make the claim, "God does not exist," which is a positive claim. But, when you ask them for proof God doesn't exist, we get crickets chirping. They claim there is no proof God doesn't exist. But, if there is no proof God doesn't exist, how does one come to the conclusion that God doesn't exist?

You see the problem? There is literally NOTHING you can point to and say, "That right there shows there's no God." Hopefully this gets some of you guys thinking.

 

[Patooka]

Prove god did anything.

I can not. But, you can not prove God didn't do anything either.

Prove that you do not beat your wife, you fucking wife basher.

 

[laughing dog]

Half-Life. Atheists do not believe in God. I have easily accepted this about them... why are you having trouble with it?

What Atheists like to do is use their arguments to make it seem like you are contradicting yourself (which is very easy to do if you are not well trained in bible study)... or rather, that the bible contradicts itself.

It's not that they "say one thing and then say the opposite"... it's that they tolerate a supposition for the purpose of discussion... that is to say, there is a whole lot of "well, IF (big if) <insert Biblical claim> THEN.... <insert logical complaint>"
I see how this can get confusing... "How can God do xyz and also claim abc.." - You are just wasting everyone's time by saying, "AHA! you DO acknowledge god!!!" No they don;t... they are just giving you all the rope you need to hang your own poorly formed arguments from.

But my point is they do not believe in God because they looked around and said, "I can't see no God. Guess He's not real." This is the most intellectually dishonest position one can take.

No, it is not intellectually dishonest. It may be incorrect, but it is not intellectually dishonest. I

A lot of atheists make the claim, "God does not exist," which is a positive claim. But, when you ask them for proof God doesn't exist, we get crickets chirping. They claim there is no proof God doesn't exist. But, if there is no proof God doesn't exist, how does one come to the conclusion that God doesn't exist?

One cannot prove a negative. If someone wants to claim that "____ exists", it is up to the claimant that ____ exists.

Really, using your standards, you cannot prove that aliens from other planets, or ghosts do not exist.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Prove god did anything.

I can not. But, you can not prove God didn't do anything either.

I can't prove a bear that doesn't exist didn't poop in the woods either.