Can Roe v Wade be overturned?

[Half-Life]

He does not NEED bad things to happen. Bad things happen. God can make good come out of the situation.

Then why does he let bad things happen?

Because we have free will. You guys are just going in circles now.

 

[Brian63]

Why does having free will mean bad things are going to happen? We can have free will and still have only good things happen (remember that with God, all things are possible.).

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He does not NEED bad things to happen. Bad things happen. God can make good come out of the situation.

right... god makes good things come out of abortions... I knew it!

Can you say "fetal tissue research"?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

There is good that comes out of bad things.

And more often than not, bad that comes out of bad things, but gee, Pollyanna. It's only people's lives we're talking about casually destroying with a bumper-sticker platitude, so gee willikers, let's use the power of the State for force other people into compliance with voodoo beliefs because "there's good things what cums outa bads, hyuck!"

Nobody forces anyone to do anything.

Um, we're talking about using the power of the State to force women to give birth.

Unless a woman is raped, she made the choice to have sex with another man.

So she can make the choice to deal with the consequences without having the State jackboot down her door.

 

[Half-Life]

Why does having free will mean bad things are going to happen? We can have free will and still have only good things happen (remember that with God, all things are possible.).

This question makes no sense. People choose to do bad things. You can't have free will and have only good things happen. This would make us unthinking robots.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

God certainly does allow some babies to be miscarried. I can not know the reason why. But, God allowing something does not mean that we humans are allowed to do something. There's a hierarchy here. Every company has rules. Nobody says, "The boss is doing x, why can't I?!?!?!" Seems like you guys haven't thought about this in great depth. Just gave up on God. Sad.

But I never agreed to work for him, he shouldn't have rights I do not.

Or are you saying I am his slave?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

He does not NEED bad things to happen. Bad things happen. God can make good come out of the situation.

Then why does he let bad things happen?

Because we have free will.

Your belief in Santa Claus is not a basis for applying the force of State.

I tell you what, though, since you raised the issue of medical science when you oh so joyously brought up a 23 week premature birth that could not possibly have survived without aggressive modern medical science, it is now medically possible to implant a fetus into a male body and have him carry the baby to term (via c-section).

So now we're going to force you to carry your pregnant girlfriend's baby to term. I mean, after all, you had sex and you knew one of the consequences of having sex was pregnancy.

So, you're fucked. Again, only not the good way.

And, you have no say in the matter.

Thanks.

 

[laughing dog]

He does not NEED bad things to happen. Bad things happen. God can make good come out of the situation.

Then why does he let bad things happen?

Because we have free will. You guys are just going in circles now.

How does free will enter into some good child getting terminal cancer? Or babies born with spinabifada?

 

[Half-Life]

Because we have free will. You guys are just going in circles now.

How does free will enter into some good child getting terminal cancer? Or babies born with spinabifada?

That's not free will. That's just unfortunate.

 

[laughing dog]

Because we have free will. You guys are just going in circles now.

How does free will enter into some good child getting terminal cancer? Or babies born with spinabifada?

That's not free will. That's just unfortunate.

So why does God allow such unfortunate things to happen?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That is what the right wonders about.

Since abortion became legal, how many times have we aborted the next Einstein?

And how many Hitlers?

And how many Einsteins weren't born because she had a headache?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

That is what the right wonders about.

Since abortion became legal, how many times have we aborted the next Einstein?

The right doesn't give a flying fuck about science or scientists, for that matter. Try again.

 

[Brian63]

People choose to do bad things.

People sometimes fail at what they choose to do as well. Almighty and all-powerful and omnipotent God could snap its fingers and preserve our free will to do make certain choices, while also negating any harmful consequences of those choices.

You and I and everyone else ever alive has made choices that we were not fully aware of the consequences of. Some of them would harm or benefit ourselves without ourselves even being aware of it. Sometimes they will harm or benefit others, again without ourselves knowing of it. The fact that there are unknown consequences to our choices does not mean we do not have the ability to make choices (your "unthinking robots" phrase).

You can't have free will and have only good things happen. This would make us unthinking robots.

Do you believe in heaven? Can you describe what it is like? When other Christians describe heaven as an afterlife of pure bliss (but still with free will), do you think they are wrong? That if we are going to have free will, that will require that some harmful consequences are manifested as well? Thanks.

 

[Half-Life]

That's not free will. That's just unfortunate.

So why does God allow such unfortunate things to happen?

Don't know. But, one would think if your point was so wise and intellectual, everyone would become an atheist.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There is good that comes out of bad things.

And more often than not, bad that comes out of bad things, but gee, Pollyanna. It's only people's lives we're talking about casually destroying with a bumper-sticker platitude, so gee willikers, let's use the power of the State for force other people into compliance with voodoo beliefs because "there's good things what cums outa bads, hyuck!"

Nobody forces anyone to do anything. Unless a woman is raped, she made the choice to have sex with another man. One thing that can happen as a result of sex is pregnancy. If you don't want the risk of pregnancy, don't have sex.

This is not some radical new idea here. This is common sense and safety.

As we virtually always see with the "pro-life" community it's about punishing sex that you don't like.

Some of us do not choose to be parents, should we remain virgins for life? And risk the mind-warping that tends to come with that? (Just look at the abuse rate amongst the clergy to see this.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He does not NEED bad things to happen. Bad things happen. God can make good come out of the situation.

Then why does he let bad things happen?

Because we have free will. You guys are just going in circles now.

Repeating this doesn't make it relevant. Free will lets us make bad choices, it doesn't make bad things happen for other reasons.

 

[Half-Life]

Because we have free will. You guys are just going in circles now.

Repeating this doesn't make it relevant. Free will lets us make bad choices, it doesn't make bad things happen for other reasons.

This discussion never goes anywhere on forums. I ask atheists, "Should God do everything for us?" and it always ends up with atheists flip-flopping back and forth between yes and no.

Should we work or have God give us money?
Should I have to drive to the grocery store or should God fill my fridge magically?
Should I have to use my remote to turn on my TV or should God do it for me?

Atheists can never agree on where the line starts and stops.

 

[Keith&Co.]

That is what the right wonders about.

Since abortion became legal, how many times have we aborted the next Einstein?

And how many Hitlers?

And how many Einsteins weren't born because she had a headache?

Hell, how many Einsteins or Motzarts WERE born, but languished in poverty, or underfunded foster homes, because The Right does not give a flaming fuck about the kids in their fourth trimester. Maybe the cure for cancer was aborted, or maybe she dropped out of school, joined a gang, and can't spell cancer.

Or got pregnant at 15, couldn't get an abortion, and instead of college works three part-time jobs with no benefits.

What If is fun.

 

[Brian63]

Atheists can never agree on where the line starts and stops.

We are taking our cues from the theists who cannot seem to agree on that line either.

 

[Ford]

That is what the right wonders about.

Since abortion became legal, how many times have we aborted the next Einstein?

And how many Hitlers?

And how many Einsteins weren't born because she had a headache?

Hell, how many Einsteins or Motzarts WERE born, but languished in poverty, or underfunded foster homes, because The Right does not give a flaming fuck about the kids in their fourth trimester. Maybe the cure for cancer was aborted, or maybe she dropped out of school, joined a gang, and can't spell cancer.

Or got pregnant at 15, couldn't get an abortion, and instead of college works three part-time jobs with no benefits.

What If is fun.

What about all the kids that weren't Einstein or Mozart or Hitler, but were born into a relatively safe, secure white middle class household, and for whatever reason found themselves in the position of not having a better life than their parents? Maybe they expected to become wealthy because that's what they'd been told would happen if they just worked hard enough. And even though they were born on third base - white, Christian, and not poor - they couldn't close the deal.

They felt angry and bitter because working hard and being white wasn't enough, and they didn't see the truth that the system was rigged...even against them! Then someone came along and showed them an alt-truth: That all their woes were really the fault of "the secular left," minorities, social justice warriors, "socialists," and liberal scientists, who had all teamed up to keep them down.

They found refuge in talk radio, or an evangelical church who preached the gospel of "blame it on abortion," or worse...Ben Shapiro. They found websites and social media accounts that reinforced this sense of victimization, and thought that perhaps they could find purpose in taking all of this "truth" they'd discovered and evangelizing the "secular left." When that failed (because facts are persistent), they stumbled upon a new purpose: To be a troll.