Can you be spiritual without being religious?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Can you be spiritual without being religious?

Spirituality might be exemplified by this quote.
John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

One can practice spirituality alone. One cannot practice religiosity without a group/tribe.

Religiosity, I would define roughly, as promoting an organized or local church/temple/tribe etc.

Spirituality ignores our tribal instincts. Our religiosity demand that we cater to our tribal/fellowship needs.

If you are spiritually minded and have a working moral system that you think is the best, I think that you should want to share it and have others follow it. To share it should have you join a church or religion so as to promote your good thinking.

Does a spiritual mind, if truly spiritual, have to join a religion, even if not morally up to your standard, in order to share your view and perhaps help that religion rise up to your better standard of excellence?

If you answer yes to that question, is that why spiritually minded atheists and others now forming atheist churches or churches that take a more secular role within society?

Regards
DL

 

[Tom Sawyer]

You can be anything that you want to be. All you need to do is try hard and believe in yourself.

 

[southernhybrid]

Define what you mean by spirituality. Everyone seems to define the term differently.

As far as atheist organizations go, they are mostly a way of enjoying community with other non religious people. I've been a member of quite a few of them over the past twenty years, and I never felt that there was anything spiritual about them, unless hanging out with friends is spiritual. Maybe it is. I always have a little happy buzz after hanging out for a couple of hours in a non stop talkathon with my fellow atheists. Our monthly dinner is tonight. It will probably be fun. As I like to say, whenever two or more are not gathered in His name, a good time will be had by all.

Regardless, most humans benefit from social engagement. People who have lots of social engagement tend to have longer lives and are often healthier. Maybe spirituality is just the buzz that you feel when you enjoy being around people or pets that you like, appreciating the beauty of nature, or doing things you enjoy, or learning something new and refreshing. Yeah. I think that's how I will define spirituality for myself. No gods required.

 

[bilby]

Atheism only requires a lack of belief in gods. It's perfectly possible to not believe in gods, while still believing in spiritual stuff like ghosts and hauntings; astrology; psychic powers; telekenesis; etc.; etc.

Believing in those things, but not in any gods, might make you poorly informed about reality, but it doesn't make you not an atheist.

Of course, if your definition of 'spiritual' is broader still, it might even include such things as general feelings of wellbeing; wonder; awe; dread; imagination; dreams; etc.; etc. I imagine that few atheists are not 'spiritual' in that broader sense of being able to feel awe.

 

[aupmanyav]

Atheism only requires a lack of belief in gods. It's perfectly possible to not believe in gods, while still believing in spiritual stuff like ghosts and hauntings; astrology; psychic powers; telekenesis; etc.; etc.

Believing in those things, but not in any gods, might make you poorly informed about reality, but it doesn't make you not an atheist.

Just can't understand this kind of behavior.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Atheism only requires a lack of belief in gods. It's perfectly possible to not believe in gods, while still believing in spiritual stuff like ghosts and hauntings; astrology; psychic powers; telekenesis; etc.; etc.

Believing in those things, but not in any gods, might make you poorly informed about reality, but it doesn't make you not an atheist.

Just can't understand this kind of behavior.

I don't know, a lot of people just seem to think that the world is a more interesting place when it includes all of this weird stuff. Given that for 99% of them, it makes absolutely no difference to their lives if they think the stars are mapping out their destiny or if the lady at the corner table in the coffee shop can give them advice about their love life by looking at a deck of cards, there's no particular upside or downside to holding or abandoning these beliefs. They may waste a few bucks here and there paying for these things as opposed to spending it on something more useful like superhero action figures like I do, but overall it's irrelevant.

 

[Keith&Co.]

One can practice spirituality alone. One cannot practice religiosity without a group/tribe.

Why not?

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

You can be anything that you want to be. All you need to do is try hard and believe in yourself.

Nice, when child rearing.

Twer so easy.

Nature and genetics come before nurture and decides our skill set.

I do agree that a positive outlook helps quite a bit for achieving goals.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Define what you mean by spirituality. Everyone seems to define the term differently.

Which is exactly why my definition would not be worth much. Your definition is not likely to offend me.

As far as atheist organizations go, they are mostly a way of enjoying community with other non religious people. I've been a member of quite a few of them over the past twenty years, and I never felt that there was anything spiritual about them, unless hanging out with friends is spiritual. Maybe it is.

Bingo.

All a church is is a small tribal unit bonding and enjoying fellowship.

The need for them is reducing but will be with us for another, what, 50 years.

I always have a little happy buzz after hanging out for a couple of hours in a non stop talkathon with my fellow atheists. Our monthly dinner is tonight. It will probably be fun. As I like to say, whenever two or more are not gathered in His name, a good time will be had by all.

If I was there, it would be my tab. Eh. Not too many please.

Regardless, most humans benefit from social engagement. People who have lots of social engagement tend to have longer lives and are often healthier. Maybe spirituality is just the buzz that you feel when you enjoy being around people or pets that you like, appreciating the beauty of nature, or doing things you enjoy, or learning something new and refreshing. Yeah. I think that's how I will define spirituality for myself. No gods required.

Gods are a hindrance.

Given that the more right wing religions do a lot of damage to society as a whole, do you seek them out to shine on the dull bulbs?

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Atheism only requires a lack of belief in gods. It's perfectly possible to not believe in gods, while still believing in spiritual stuff like ghosts and hauntings; astrology; psychic powers; telekenesis; etc.; etc.

Believing in those things, but not in any gods, might make you poorly informed about reality, but it doesn't make you not an atheist.

Of course, if your definition of 'spiritual' is broader still, it might even include such things as general feelings of wellbeing; wonder; awe; dread; imagination; dreams; etc.; etc. I imagine that few atheists are not 'spiritual' in that broader sense of being able to feel awe.

I only believe what I know to be a fact. I would not believe in telepathy, as an example, unless my fellow communication partner or target/victim confirmed it.

Gnostic Christianity is rather agnostic as we have to be if we are to cherry pick the best rules and laws to live by.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

One can practice spirituality alone. One cannot practice religiosity without a group/tribe.

Why not?

Church etc. are just names for a meeting house of a certain tribe.

In the tribe is the only place to practice being tribal.

If spirituality were swimming, you would need water to learn to swim.

Regards
DL

 

[Underseer]

"I'm spiritual but not religious" is a fatuous excuse used by people who are starting to figure out that their religious beliefs have no basis, but aren't yet ready to stop believing in pixies.

They think it makes their unsupported beliefs sound more reasonable.

See, if I believe in a talking snake as part of a group that meets every Sunday, then that would be unreasonable, but if I believe in the talking snake without meeting with like-minded people every Sunday, then my belief in the talking snake is reasonable.

 

[Keith&Co.]

One can practice spirituality alone. One cannot practice religiosity without a group/tribe.

Why not?

Church etc. are just names for a meeting house of a certain tribe.

In the tribe is the only place to practice being tribal.

If spirituality were swimming, you would need water to learn to swim.

Regards
DL

Can't hermits be religious? Seriously, if god reveals his word and rules for living to someone living alone in the desert for some reason, and only that person, and then HermitDave observes those rules, worships that god, you think it's not religiosity until he convinces a tribe to agree with him?

I know the law requires a minimum of three to make a church, two of them not related to one another, but that's taxes, not religiousity....

 

[braces_for_impact]

Originally posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop

If you are spiritually minded and have a working moral system that you think is the best, I think that you should want to share it and have others follow it. To share it should have you join a church or religion so as to promote your good thinking.

I'm not so presumptive. If I have a "spiritual, not religious" method that works for me, it may not work for others, that's one reason it's "spiritual" and not "religion". Religion is cookie cutter, one method for everyone. I put these in quotes because they mean something different to so many people.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

One can practice spirituality alone. One cannot practice religiosity without a group/tribe.

Why not?

Christianity has a long history of religious hermits. Of course, not everybody is cut out for the hermit's lifestyle.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

"I'm spiritual but not religious" is a fatuous excuse used by people who are starting to figure out that their religious beliefs have no basis, but aren't yet ready to stop believing in pixies.

They think it makes their unsupported beliefs sound more reasonable.

See, if I believe in a talking snake as part of a group that meets every Sunday, then that would be unreasonable, but if I believe in the talking snake without meeting with like-minded people every Sunday, then my belief in the talking snake is reasonable.

I see that you have meet some Christians.

They leave a bad taste in my mouth as well.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Church etc. are just names for a meeting house of a certain tribe.

In the tribe is the only place to practice being tribal.

If spirituality were swimming, you would need water to learn to swim.

Regards
DL

Can't hermits be religious? Seriously, if god reveals his word and rules for living to someone living alone in the desert for some reason, and only that person, and then HermitDave observes those rules, worships that god, you think it's not religiosity until he convinces a tribe to agree with him?

I know the law requires a minimum of three to make a church, two of them not related to one another, but that's taxes, not religiousity....

I showed what spirituality and religiosity was. You do not want to accept my definitions so I do not know where you want to go now.

Your hermit can be spiritual but needs a tribe to be tribal which is what a religion gives him.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Originally posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop

If you are spiritually minded and have a working moral system that you think is the best, I think that you should want to share it and have others follow it. To share it should have you join a church or religion so as to promote your good thinking.

I'm not so presumptive. If I have a "spiritual, not religious" method that works for me, it may not work for others, that's one reason it's "spiritual" and not "religion". Religion is cookie cutter, one method for everyone. I put these in quotes because they mean something different to so many people.

Spirituality and spiritual thinking is supposed to work for all, and if it does not, it likely need amending and good discourse is great for dotting the Is and slashing Ts and a spiritual person would likely seek to confirm or amend his vies to make then universal.

I am sure that that happens often here with members on other non-spiritual matters as well as spiritual ones.

Regards
DL

 

[abaddon]

Originally posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop

If you are spiritually minded and have a working moral system that you think is the best, I think that you should want to share it and have others follow it. To share it should have you join a church or religion so as to promote your good thinking.

I'm not so presumptive. If I have a "spiritual, not religious" method that works for me, it may not work for others, that's one reason it's "spiritual" and not "religion". Religion is cookie cutter, one method for everyone. I put these in quotes because they mean something different to so many people.

Spirituality and spiritual thinking is supposed to work for all, and if it does not, it likely need amending and good discourse is great for dotting the Is and slashing Ts and a spiritual person would likely seek to confirm or amend his vies to make then universal.

I am sure that that happens often here with members on other non-spiritual matters as well as spiritual ones.

The more universal your views, the more a compliant self-effacing weenie you are.

That's essential in the distinction between "spiritual" and "religious". The aim is to connect on a personal level with the universe (or with whatever is conceived as "most real") in your own unique way, and not merge with the group. It is the relation of self and world, and not truth, that is key here... Spirituality is relating one's life with the rest of existence. To make a meaning and significance to that individual life. To gain a sense of belonging without submersion into groupthink. That's why "spiritual" people are keen to make disclaimers about NOT meaning what they say as universally applicable, to avoid coming across as dogmatic and rude.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Spirituality and spiritual thinking is supposed to work for all, and if it does not, it likely need amending and good discourse is great for dotting the Is and slashing Ts and a spiritual person would likely seek to confirm or amend his vies to make then universal.

I am sure that that happens often here with members on other non-spiritual matters as well as spiritual ones.

The more universal your views, the more a compliant self-effacing weenie you are.

That's essential in the distinction between "spiritual" and "religious". The aim is to connect on a personal level with the universe (or with whatever is conceived as "most real") in your own unique way, and not merge with the group. It is the relation of self and world, and not truth, that is key here... Spirituality is relating one's life with the rest of existence. To make a meaning and significance to that individual life. To gain a sense of belonging without submersion into groupthink. That's why "spiritual" people are keen to make disclaimers about NOT meaning what they say as universally applicable, to avoid coming across as dogmatic and rude.

I would imagine that Einstein would not agree with your first. Neither do I.

You offer it as a universal concept which makes you a compliant self-effacing weenie.

But hey. If you want to see yourself that way, enjoy.

But to you intelligent reply.

Personal connection with the universe would include the people in it.

I am not sure about your belonging to the world.

Jesus, for instance said he was not of this world and I do not think he was referring to being from another planet, but perhaps to referring to himself as spiritually above such concerns and having his soul in mind rather than his body politic.

At the same time, it seems to me, that if a person has a spiritual view that is not the common view of the groups and religions around him, it is his duty to voice his view so as to perhaps improve the thinking of the masses.

Regards
DL