Canada's nazi problem

[Cheerful Charlie]

A nation that built monuments to Stalin has no room to point fingers at anyone else.

 

[DrZoidberg]

A nation that built monuments to Stalin has no room to point fingers at anyone else.

Meh. Both Canada and Scotland has built war memorials (with public funds) to the Galcian division (ie, Ukrainian SS). That's not saying that the west are pro-Nazi. But it is a mindblowingly bad lapse in judgement.

I think that's problematic. The west was allied to Stalin in WW2. Not out of love for Stalin, of course. But it does make this glas house is very windy.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Stalin was a mass murderer. Not as ambitious as Hitler, but hey. Yet there are indeed monuments to Stalin in Russia. Here in the U.S. we are removing monuments and statues. Statues of Confederate generals, the genocidal Christopher Columbus, and other scum. And even of founding fathers who owned slaves. It is a start.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Stalin was a mass murderer. Not as ambitious as Hitler, but hey. Yet there are indeed monuments to Stalin in Russia. Here in the U.S. we are removing monuments and statues. Statues of Confederate generals, the genocidal Christopher Columbus, and other scum. And even of founding fathers who owned slaves. It is a start.

We've had this discussion before. I don't like it. I think it's about erasing history. London is jam packed with imperialists guilty of genocide. But they're all important parts of British history. The fact that someone at some point thought it was a great idea to raise that monument is reason enough for me to let them stay IMHO.

In the woke narrative of today we only accept successful people who are, in every way, flawless. But nobody is. It's an impossible, and fucked up, standard. Instead, I think we should celebrate a human race, who, in spite of being flawed, has managed to get something right.

I think your ideal is dangerous and unhelpful. It's basically the aestetic sensibilities of ISIS and the Taleban. I assume you don't like them? But you share their views on what public art to keep around.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I am not aware of any American monuments to known Nazis. If other countries have some, shame on them. Perhaps their citizens can demand these monument's removal such as we in the U.S. are removing monuments to pro-slavery Confederate generals.

 

[Harry Bosch]

A nation that built monuments to Stalin has no room to point fingers at anyone else.

Meh. Both Canada and Scotland has built war memorials (with public funds) to the Galcian division (ie, Ukrainian SS). That's not saying that the west are pro-Nazi. But it is a mindblowingly bad lapse in judgement.

I think that's problematic. The west was allied to Stalin in WW2. Not out of love for Stalin, of course. But it does make this glas house is very windy.

Windy glass houses? There was a small Nazi rally in mean streets of Keizer Oregon the other day. There are Nazis in the west. Of course. Lots of them. There are tons of Nazis in Russia too! Shit, Wagner's number 2 was a Nazi. We don't need Russian imperialists to save us from the Nazis. I'd throw rocks and any other defensive measure in my power if the Russians decided to invade Keizer because there are a few Nazis there.

 

[ZiprHead]

We've had this discussion before. I don't like it. I think it's about erasing history. London is jam packed with imperialists guilty of genocide. But they're all important parts of British history. The fact that someone at some point thought it was a great idea to raise that monument is reason enough for me to let them stay IMHO.

Taking down statues honoring scum is not erasing history. It's ackowledging the true history.

 

[laughing dog]

Stalin was a mass murderer. Not as ambitious as Hitler, but hey. Yet there are indeed monuments to Stalin in Russia. Here in the U.S. we are removing monuments and statues. Statues of Confederate generals, the genocidal Christopher Columbus, and other scum. And even of founding fathers who owned slaves. It is a start.

We've had this discussion before. I don't like it. I think it's about erasing history. London is jam packed with imperialists guilty of genocide. But they're all important parts of British history. The fact that someone at some point thought it was a great idea to raise that monument is reason enough for me to let them stay IMHO.

What utter bosh. Removing statutes that honor people is not erasing history - it is about no longer honoring them. Erasing history requires a concentrated effort to eradicate or change the record.

If the people who take your position actually thought about it, removing such statutes is about broadening history since it is about bringing something in the historical record to light.

 

[bilby]

I am not aware of any American monuments to known Nazis.

Really? Your nation is littered with monuments to Wernher von Braun; The city of Huntsville, Alabama has an entertainment complex called the von Braun Center, which has a plaque dedicated to him. There's even a von Braun Conference Center at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

And, for his achievements in rocket design and development, and his contributions to human space exploration, von Braun really does deserve recognition.

Sure, he was a Nazi who used slave labour to build his earliest rockets. Sure, he was directly responsible for new weapons systems used by Nazi Germany to attack civilians in London and Amsterdam. But then, if America took down all the memorials to slave owners, Alabama would barely have a single street left with a name, and GPS (only possible because of von Braun's work) would be rendered useless.

The guy was a deadset evil cunt. But also helped hugely in the advancement of humanity. Reality is complex.

 

[robnisch]

A nation that built monuments to Stalin has no room to point fingers at anyone else.

Meh. Both Canada and Scotland has built war memorials (with public funds) to the Galcian division (ie, Ukrainian SS). That's not saying that the west are pro-Nazi. But it is a mindblowingly bad lapse in judgement.

I think that's problematic. The west was allied to Stalin in WW2. Not out of love for Stalin, of course. But it does make this glas house is very windy.

Windy glass houses? There was a small Nazi rally in mean streets of Keizer Oregon the other day. There are Nazis in the west. Of course. Lots of them. There are tons of Nazis in Russia too! Shit, Wagner's number 2 was a Nazi. We don't need Russian imperialists to save us from the Nazis. I'd throw rocks and any other defensive measure in my power if the Russians decided to invade Keizer because there are a few Nazis there.

I missed that, guess I need to get out more!

 

[Rhea]

There are Nazis in the west. Of course. Lots of them. There are tons of Nazis in Russia too! Shit, Wagner's number 2 was a Nazi. We don't need Russian imperialists to save us from the Nazis. I'd throw rocks and any other defensive measure in my power if the Russians decided to invade Keizer because there are a few Nazis there.

This.

Barbos is poorly informed if he thinks the west is unaware of the Nazis who came here or the sympathizers that exist here. We know they’re here. We hate them here, too.

Some folks have tried to bring them to justice for a long time and didn’t succeed. Others gave up on that and were grateful they survived and unwilling to keep trying to fight. They’re not wrong to say, ‘I’ve done enough, I don ‘t have energy for more.” Those who did keep fighting tried to do more and often lost.

But still, as Harry so aptly writes:

I'd throw rocks and any other defensive measure in my power if the Russians decided to invade [my town] because there are a few Nazis there

 

[robnisch]

A nation that built monuments to Stalin has no room to point fingers at anyone else.

Meh. Both Canada and Scotland has built war memorials (with public funds) to the Galcian division (ie, Ukrainian SS). That's not saying that the west are pro-Nazi. But it is a mindblowingly bad lapse in judgement.

I think that's problematic. The west was allied to Stalin in WW2. Not out of love for Stalin, of course. But it does make this glas house is very windy.

Windy glass houses? There was a small Nazi rally in mean streets of Keizer Oregon the other day. There are Nazis in the west. Of course. Lots of them. There are tons of Nazis in Russia too! Shit, Wagner's number 2 was a Nazi. We don't need Russian imperialists to save us from the Nazis. I'd throw rocks and any other defensive measure in my power if the Russians decided to invade Keizer because there are a few Nazis there.

I missed that, guess I need to get out more!

Oh, that was last year. I was still in Alaska.

 

[ZiprHead]

Russia's Nazi Problem

The origins of this relationship date to the late 1990s, when Russia was shaken by a wave of racist violence committed by neo-Nazi skinhead gangs. After Putin’s accession to the presidency in 2000, his regime exploited this development in two ways.

First, it used the neo-Nazi threat to justify the adoption of anti-extremism legislation, a longstanding demand of some Russian liberals. Ultimately, this legislation would be used to prosecute Russian democrats.

Second, the Kremlin launched “managed nationalism”, an attempt to co-opt and mobilise radical nationalist militants, including neo-Nazis, as a counterweight to an emerging anti-Putin coalition of democrats and leftist radicals.

More in the article.

 

[Copernicus]

Russia's Nazi Problem

The source material for that article can be found in this longer article from The Conversation:

Putin’s fascists: the Russian state’s long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis

The article tells more about Putin's ties to these neo-Nazi groups, particularly the "Nashi" group. Here is a picture from one of their rallies.

 

[laughing dog]

Russia's Nazi Problem

The source material for that article can be found in this longer article from The Conversation:

Putin’s fascists: the Russian state’s long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis

The article tells more about Putin's ties to these neo-Nazi groups, particularly the "Nashi" group. Here is a picture from one of their rallies.

Yeah, but unlike the Canadiana no one expects Russians to behave better than that.

 

[Copernicus]

Yeah, but unlike the Canadiana no one expects Russians to behave better than that.

I don't find the Russian neo-Nazi groups to be less shocking, especially given that the leader of their country seems to have their blessing. That photo looks similar to a Ku Klux Klan rally in the US, and, for me, it calls up images of the Charlottesville "Unite the Right" rally, which had the blessing of the then current US President. Putin is seldom called out as a fascist dictator in the US media, but that is what he has become.

 

[JohnG]

Barbos - you may be the most misinformed poster here - but it's probably not your fault.

Yes - the speaker of the house invited a Ukr war vet ,who fought under a Nazi regime, to the HOC - No they didn't blame Russia. They took responsibility - the Speaker resigned over the mistake, the PM apologized, and yes it was a dumb gaff and it gave Putin something to talk about.

 

[bilby]

Canada's nazi problem​

I can tell English isn't your first language, @barbos

It's spelled "Canada's not the problem"

 

[barbos]

Barbos - you may be the most misinformed poster here - but it's probably not your fault.

Yes - the speaker of the house invited a Ukr war vet ,who fought under a Nazi regime, to the HOC - No they didn't blame Russia. They took responsibility - the Speaker resigned over the mistake, the PM apologized, and yes it was a dumb gaff and it gave Putin something to talk about.

And blamed ..... Russia. By the way, has Freeland apologized yet? Not? why not?

Sorry man, you are the one who is misinformed here.
Meanwhile, Russian Federation issued arrest warrant for that nazi piece of shit.

 

[TomC]

Barbos - you may be the most misinformed poster here - but it's probably not your fault.

Yes - the speaker of the house invited a Ukr war vet ,who fought under a Nazi regime, to the HOC - No they didn't blame Russia. They took responsibility - the Speaker resigned over the mistake, the PM apologized, and yes it was a dumb gaff and it gave Putin something to talk about.

Honestly, I can barely keep up with the idiocy in my own country. "Breaking news from Ottowa" doesn't make the cut.

From @barbos early reports, I kinda got the impression that someone had run for high office on a Nazi platform and won. Apparently, it's more like a guy with a shady past and unpopular opinions gave a speech. Ho Hum.

How that became an international incident is quite illustrative of the difference between Putinist Russia and more enlightened places. The Nazi dude was shown the door, not jailed or defenestrated.
Tom