Cash for the poor doesn't work very well

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.straighttalkonevidence.o...break-the-poverty-cycle-in-the-united-states/

The left keeps being after this but the data says it doesn't work.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

http://www.straighttalkonevidence.o...break-the-poverty-cycle-in-the-united-states/

The left keeps being after this but the data says it doesn't work.

Why would merely giving cash to the poor help them long term? It helps them get by short term. Education is the key to the long term. They should have free college.

 

[untermensche]

I assure you just giving poor people money will help them. Only a complete idiot could think otherwise.

Just keep doing it as long as there are poor people.

And it will greatly help the economy.

As far as breaking the cycle of poverty. That will take a lot more than just giving poor people money.

You have to give them security, a good home life, safe neighborhoods, an education beginning at birth and opportunity too.

You have to care about more than money and see human development as more than having a little more money.

 

[bilby]

CONDITIONAL cash is not really the same as CASH, now is it?

The whole point of cash is that it's use is entirely without strings.

This article is not even talking about the subject claimed for it by the OP.

 

[Jayjay]

CONDITIONAL cash is not really the same as CASH, now is it?

The whole point of cash is that it's use is entirely without strings.

This article is not even talking about the subject claimed for it by the OP.

If conditional cash is not incentivizing people to do what the cash is conditional for, why would unconditional cash? Sure it might encourage them to do other things, so this study just shows that cash is not working to improve health care participation or children's school results (or whatever else was there, I just glanced it over).

 

[bilby]

CONDITIONAL cash is not really the same as CASH, now is it?

The whole point of cash is that it's use is entirely without strings.

This article is not even talking about the subject claimed for it by the OP.

If conditional cash is not incentivizing people to do what the cash is conditional for, why would unconditional cash? Sure it might encourage them to do other things, so this study just shows that cash is not working to improve health care participation or children's school results (or whatever else was there, I just glanced it over).

Why would the opinion of anyone other than the poor person about what goals they should pursue be relevant to anything?

If you want to improve someone's life, then you have to start by understanding that THEIR idea about what is an improvement is the only one that actually works. Somebody else's guesses just don't cut it.

 

[James Brown]

Debunking the Stereotype of the Lazy Welfare Recipient: Evidence from Cash Transfer Programs Worldwide

We re-analyze the data from 7 randomized controlled trials of government-run cash transfer programs in six developing countries throughout the world, and find no systematic evidence
that cash transfer programs discourage work.

The short-term impact of unconditional cash transfers to the poor: experimental evidence from Kenya

These results suggest that unconditional cash transfers have significant impacts on economic outcomes and psychological wellbeing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

http://www.straighttalkonevidence.o...break-the-poverty-cycle-in-the-united-states/

The left keeps being after this but the data says it doesn't work.

You mean all of the metrics that are responsible for poverty don't magically stop if you give a poor person money.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

http://www.straighttalkonevidence.o...break-the-poverty-cycle-in-the-united-states/

The left keeps being after this but the data says it doesn't work.

You mean all of the metrics that are responsible for poverty don't magically stop if you give a poor person money.

Well, there are two kinds of poor people. There are those who are poor and those who deserve to be poor. Loren is clearly talking about those who deserve to be poor.

 

[laughing dog]

http://www.straighttalkonevidence.o...break-the-poverty-cycle-in-the-united-states/

The left keeps being after this but the data says it doesn't work.

I am unaware that anyone promotes cash transfers as long-run solutions to poverty (the conclusion of the OP study). The issue is whether cash transfers are better shorter term remedies than in-kind transfers. As a result, the OP claim is poorly stated and misleading.

 

[Jokodo]

http://www.straighttalkonevidence.o...break-the-poverty-cycle-in-the-united-states/

The left keeps being after this but the data says it doesn't work.

You mean all of the metrics that are responsible for poverty don't magically stop if you give a poor person money.

Well, there are two kinds of poor people. There are those who are poor and those who deserve to be poor. Loren is clearly talking about those who deserve to be poor.

And I guess those who deserve to be poor are those who haven't figured out that they can avoid paying rent by buying property.

That's what our (Austrian) chancellor seems to think. And since it would be unfair towards people barely above the poverty line to take away what little they have and also encourage people to stay poor, an inheritance tax is out of the question - although the proposals on the table actually talk about keeping the first million euros tax free anyway. That is, if you inherit a villa with an assessed value (almost always lower than the market value, and often by quite a lot) of 1,000,000 euros, your tax would be 0.0. If you inherit a villa with a value of 1.4 million euros, your tax, assuming a nominal 25% rate, would be 100,000.

According to right wing logic, everyone who doesn't need to be concerned about something like this probably deserves to be poor.

 

[Bronzeage]

http://www.straighttalkonevidence.o...break-the-poverty-cycle-in-the-united-states/

The left keeps being after this but the data says it doesn't work.

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for one night. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

These kinds of observations about what works and what doesn't work, would carry more weight, if there was some real interest in moving people out of the poor classification, and not just moving them off public aid.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

You know what really doesn't work well for poor folk?
Starvation and exposure.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You know what really doesn't work well for poor folk?
Starvation and exposure.

Maybe instead of being poor, they should try and get some white collar jobs.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

You know what really doesn't work well for poor folk?
Starvation and exposure.

So give them food and shelter instead of cash?

 

[SimpleDon]

http://www.straighttalkonevidence.o...break-the-poverty-cycle-in-the-united-states/

The left keeps being after this but the data says it doesn't work.

This is not a surprise to me. What the poor need isn't an UBI or welfare payments, it is higher wages for the work that they do. The poor work hard in the US, often at two or more jobs. There is no reason for the US, the richest country in the world, to have anyone who is willing to work to be living in poverty. If your choices are to work hard and to still be poor or to accept support from the government and to be poor, why would we expect anyone to choose to work?

What is obscene in the US and the main reason that people who are willing to work are so often mired in poverty is our income and wealth inequality that you fully support. Instead of the sensible option of eliminating poverty by increasing wages and decreasing profits you prefer the obscene option of discouraging work and preserving poverty in order to increase profits and the income of the rich. You then blame the poor themselves for the existence of poverty.

I hate to be so impolite and personal but you don't seem to understand when I am not being this way. You seem to confuse subtlety for a lack of commitment to the strength of one's ideas.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Debunking the Stereotype of the Lazy Welfare Recipient: Evidence from Cash Transfer Programs Worldwide

We re-analyze the data from 7 randomized controlled trials of government-run cash transfer programs in six developing countries throughout the world, and find no systematic evidence
that cash transfer programs discourage work.

The short-term impact of unconditional cash transfers to the poor: experimental evidence from Kenya

These results suggest that unconditional cash transfers have significant impacts on economic outcomes and psychological wellbeing.

It works when the problem is a lack of jobs. It doesn't work when the problem is people nobody wants to hire.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.straighttalkonevidence.o...break-the-poverty-cycle-in-the-united-states/

The left keeps being after this but the data says it doesn't work.

This is not a surprise to me. What the poor need isn't an UBI or welfare payments, it is higher wages for the work that they do. The poor work hard in the US, often at two or more jobs. There is no reason for the US, the richest country in the world, to have anyone who is willing to work to be living in poverty. If your choices are to work hard and to still be poor or to accept support from the government and to be poor, why would we expect anyone to choose to work?

By far the biggest cause of poverty is a lack of hours worked.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

You know what really doesn't work well for poor folk?
Starvation and exposure.

So give them food and shelter instead of cash?

Or give them cash. OR BETTER YET, where applicable, gainful and fulfilling employment, worker's rights, tenant's rights, a living wage, and rent control. And for people who can't work, clean and safe public housing and a universal basic income (which would be money)

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Debunking the Stereotype of the Lazy Welfare Recipient: Evidence from Cash Transfer Programs Worldwide




The short-term impact of unconditional cash transfers to the poor: experimental evidence from Kenya

It works when the problem is a lack of jobs. It doesn't work when the problem is people nobody wants to hire.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.straighttalkonevidence.o...break-the-poverty-cycle-in-the-united-states/

The left keeps being after this but the data says it doesn't work.

This is not a surprise to me. What the poor need isn't an UBI or welfare payments, it is higher wages for the work that they do. The poor work hard in the US, often at two or more jobs. There is no reason for the US, the richest country in the world, to have anyone who is willing to work to be living in poverty. If your choices are to work hard and to still be poor or to accept support from the government and to be poor, why would we expect anyone to choose to work?

By far the biggest cause of poverty is a lack of hours worked.

The biggest cause of poverty is not properly valuing the hours worked. And as technology advances, hours worked will shrink, so to talk of working more hours isn't an answer but more a desire to make poor folk work long hours because certain people's sensibilities demand poor people work, struggle, and work.

 

[bilby]

What 'works' depends on what the objective is.

If you give a poor person cash, and they are still poor, then by definition, you didn't give them enough cash to not be poor.

If you set a goal that is not shared by the recipient, and the recipient fails to achieve that goal, then that proves only that you are shithouse at setting goals.