Census Citizenship Question

[fast]

I guess I might have made an argument or two in there, but I’m not sharing it for the purpose of espousing it; I’m just looking to explore the divide of right and wrong between legal duty and moral duty.

Why bother? We have an executive who doesn't respect either his legal duty or his moral duty, setting the example for the country.
Get rid of that flaming asshole, and maybe we can talk.

I bother because you said, “Everyone should be counted because that is the census mandate, period[,]” and I don’t want your position undermined by some sense of a greater moral obligation.

 

[Politesse]

Why on earth would we not want to know how many people are living in the country? I am honestly baffled as to how undercounting benefits anyone. To whose advantage is it to not have any idea what the current population is?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Why on earth would we not want to know how many people are living in the country? I am honestly baffled as to how undercounting benefits anyone. To whose advantage is it to not have any idea what the current population is?

Everything that the republicans do is connected to their trying to maintain power with a diminishing base. Undocumented people tend to live in democratic areas. If they are undercounted, they will have fewer representatives. They'll also get less government services.

 

[Politesse]

Why on earth would we not want to know how many people are living in the country? I am honestly baffled as to how undercounting benefits anyone. To whose advantage is it to not have any idea what the current population is?

Everything that the republicans do is connected to their trying to maintain power with a diminishing base. Undocumented people tend to live in democratic areas. If they are undercounted, they will have fewer representatives. They'll also get less government services.

How are underfunded and inefficient government services helpful to anyone? Aren't most Republican voters on said services?

 

[Keith&Co.]

How are underfunded and inefficient government services helpful to anyone? Aren't most Republican voters on said services?

if California is undercounted, and gets less money for people in the state, people there, Democrat or Republican, will be dissatisfied with their current leadership. The GOP can hope that they will elect GOP representation, because they will be able to point to how satisfied the people are in bastions of Republican power, where the reporting was more accurate.

 

[Politesse]

How are underfunded and inefficient government services helpful to anyone? Aren't most Republican voters on said services?

if California is undercounted, and gets less money for people in the state, people there, Democrat or Republican, will be dissatisfied with their current leadership. The GOP can hope that they will elect GOP representation, because they will be able to point to how satisfied the people are in bastions of Republican power, where the reporting was more accurate.

Ah. Well, just as well their "reform" got delayed. I don't there will be a Republican Party as such in 2030, though their replacements may not be especially comforting to the spirit.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why on earth would we not want to know how many people are living in the country? I am honestly baffled as to how undercounting benefits anyone. To whose advantage is it to not have any idea what the current population is?

Because the areas with more illegals tend to be blue areas. Undercounting the illegals (and legal non-citizens) reduces the number of seats in blue areas.

It's all about power to the GOP, never mind the harm done in the process.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How are underfunded and inefficient government services helpful to anyone? Aren't most Republican voters on said services?

if California is undercounted, and gets less money for people in the state, people there, Democrat or Republican, will be dissatisfied with their current leadership. The GOP can hope that they will elect GOP representation, because they will be able to point to how satisfied the people are in bastions of Republican power, where the reporting was more accurate.

Ah. Well, just as well their "reform" got delayed. I don't there will be a Republican Party as such in 2030, though their replacements may not be especially comforting to the spirit.

There would still be a GOP--there are areas that vote very, very red and even fixing the voting situation won't make them blue. There would be a lot more blue in the statehouses, though.

 

[Politesse]

Ah. Well, just as well their "reform" got delayed. I don't there will be a Republican Party as such in 2030, though their replacements may not be especially comforting to the spirit.

There would still be a GOP--there are areas that vote very, very red and even fixing the voting situation won't make them blue. There would be a lot more blue in the statehouses, though.

I didn't mean because of electoral politics. I just think their party is imploding and being replaced politically by the "moderate" Democrats.

 

[Elixir]

I guess I might have made an argument or two in there, but I’m not sharing it for the purpose of espousing it; I’m just looking to explore the divide of right and wrong between legal duty and moral duty.

Why bother? We have an executive who doesn't respect either his legal duty or his moral duty, setting the example for the country.
Get rid of that flaming asshole, and maybe we can talk.

I bother because you said, “Everyone should be counted because that is the census mandate, period[,]” and I don’t want your position undermined by some sense of a greater moral obligation.

"When moral acts are outlawed ...". But again, why try to hold ourselves to any standard that is ignored by our Chief Executive, Commander in Chief and his entire administration?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

14th Amendment:

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed.

Residents, not citizens.

The question wasn't intended to only count citizens. Rather, the purpose is to make illegals afraid to answer the census.

Illegals or legals that know illegals?

 

[fast]

Republicans are charged with wanting to lower the count, but it seems to me that the Democrats should be charged with wanting to raise the count. Having illegal aliens unjustly skews the numbers upwards, and if upward skewed numbers predominantly benefit the Democrats, there’s more to say about the agenda of the Republicans and Democrats. While the Republicans seek to lower the numbers, it’s to level the playing field while Democrats seek to raise the numbers, it’s to have an unjust advantage.

 

[Politesse]

Republicans are charged with wanting to lower the count, but it seems to me that the Democrats should be charged with wanting to raise the count. Having illegal aliens unjustly skews the numbers upwards, and if upward skewed numbers predominantly benefit the Democrats, there’s more to say about the agenda of the Republicans and Democrats. While the Republicans seek to lower the numbers, it’s to level the playing field while Democrats seek to raise the numbers, it’s to have an unjust advantage.

What do Democrats have to do with this at all? They aren't advocating any changes, nor do they have anything especially to do with the decisions of the court. Some of the judges are presumably Democrats I guess, but fewer are than aren't.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Republicans are charged with wanting to lower the count, but it seems to me that the Democrats should be charged with wanting to raise the count. Having illegal aliens unjustly skews the numbers upwards, and if upward skewed numbers predominantly benefit the Democrats, there’s more to say about the agenda of the Republicans and Democrats. While the Republicans seek to lower the numbers, it’s to level the playing field while Democrats seek to raise the numbers, it’s to have an unjust advantage.

We don't need to. We just let millions of illegals vote in elections every year, regardless of the census count. Isn't that what Trump claimed? How would the exclusion of the question benefit Democrats if they just use those illegals (Census or not) to vote in elections?

The aim, as demonstrated by private documents of the guy who came up with the question idea, was to add it to the Census in order to help streamline gerrymandering.

 

[Gun Nut]

President Dickweed has "lost" his fight to include a citizenship question intended to intimidate immigrants to keep them from responding to the 2020 census. At least that's the story line being pushed by left wing media. In fact, they are being played; the more they talk about it, them more Cheato gets to threaten the target audience. IOW, the effect of the battle against his stupid question might very well do more to intimidate non-citizens than would the inclusion of the question.
I wonder how stupid the producers of those CNN/MSNBC news shows really are. They complain about "the bully pulpit" constantly, even as they form the major part of its influence by talking Trump Trump Trump 24/7. I'd like to see a moratorium against showing that fucker's face, re-playing anything he says in his own voice, or even mentioning his name for a month or few...

If Cheato gets re-elected, it won't be on the strength of FOX pushing the Trumputin propaganda agenda, but rather on the kneejerk stupidity of the supposedly opposing media.

This is my thesis for being here, talking to you guys. If this is a point of view I in some way inspired from my posts, then my work here is done. No idea if I had anything to do with it or not... just saying.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Ah. Well, just as well their "reform" got delayed. I don't there will be a Republican Party as such in 2030, though their replacements may not be especially comforting to the spirit.

There would still be a GOP--there are areas that vote very, very red and even fixing the voting situation won't make them blue. There would be a lot more blue in the statehouses, though.

I didn't mean because of electoral politics. I just think their party is imploding and being replaced politically by the "moderate" Democrats.

You don't really understand the mind of joe sixpack the xenophobic, right wing, idealist voter who hates blacks because they get gubmint assistance too.

 

[Gun Nut]

I didn't mean because of electoral politics. I just think their party is imploding and being replaced politically by the "moderate" Democrats.

You don't really understand the mind of joe sixpack the xenophobic, right wing, idealist voter who hates blacks because they get gubmint assistance too.

Don't need to... just need to convince them the way to vote this year is to tweet their preference and Trump will personally record it for them. problem solved.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

#NotMyPresident #NotMyCensus

If the citizenship question is included, the only option is to boycott it.

 

[ZiprHead]

#NotMyPresident #NotMyCensus

If the citizenship question is included, the only option is to boycott it.

Census form burning parties?

Boycotting is probably the worst response. That is exactly what they want.

 

[Gun Nut]

I do not get the SCOTUS ruling. Where in the constitution does it say you can't have a citizenship question?

It is a good idea to know that information.

The court didn't say there can't be such a question. The court said the process by which they decided the question should be there was fatally flawed.

It's like it's perfectly legal to hire a man, but it's illegal to hire a man specifically because he's male.

Where does it say in the Department of Labor that you can't hire a male!!?!?!??!one