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Charles Taze Russel

DrZoidberg

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I'm reading up on Jehova's Witnesses and the focus seems to be what a horrible sect they are, and not on what they actually believe or why. They base their ideas on Charles Taze Russel who was a fraudster and his religious newsletter was just a scam to make money. I don't question this, I'm just wondering what he actually was claiming and how he argues for it. I haven't managed to find anything on-line about it.

Just curious. Any info would be much appreciated.
 
BTW, I think his middle name sounds kick-ass. I think it sounds like a modern hipster name
 
I have no idea, sorry.

I just know that in apologetics debates, they are even more disconnected from reality than most Christians.
 
I'm reading up on Jehova's Witnesses and the focus seems to be what a horrible sect they are, and not on what they actually believe or why. They base their ideas on Charles Taze Russel who was a fraudster and his religious newsletter was just a scam to make money. I don't question this, I'm just wondering what he actually was claiming and how he argues for it. I haven't managed to find anything on-line about it.

Just curious. Any info would be much appreciated.
If what you are looking for is what JWs believe then the likely best way to discover this is to read what they say they believe rather than the claims about what they believe posted by outsiders. The JW do have web sites for those who are curious.

Surprising to me is that even the Amish who do not use electricity have a website to explain their religion for the curious.
 
I'm reading up on Jehova's Witnesses and the focus seems to be what a horrible sect they are, and not on what they actually believe or why. They base their ideas on Charles Taze Russel who was a fraudster and his religious newsletter was just a scam to make money. I don't question this, I'm just wondering what he actually was claiming and how he argues for it. I haven't managed to find anything on-line about it.

Just curious. Any info would be much appreciated.
If what you are looking for is what JWs believe then the likely best way to discover this is to read what they say they believe rather than the claims about what they believe posted by outsiders. The JW do have web sites for those who are curious.

Surprising to me is that even the Amish who do not use electricity have a website to explain their religion for the curious.

I don't want to read it on a Jehova Witness website. I have trust issues. I want to read something with an objective stance. A regular academic piece.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW, I think his middle name sounds kick-ass. I think it sounds like a modern hipster name
Really?
Because these days, it's a verb.

It's like being called "lazer" or something.
 
Surprising to me is that even the Amish who do not use electricity have a website to explain their religion for the curious.

Well, the Amish are not completely without modern conveniences. I expect that their server runs on propane.

Propane is the liquid of the devil. Sure, that's alcohol too, but the devil is a powerful archangel and he has the ability to multitask.

Since the Amish are stuck in the 19th century, their servers are powered by large wheels pushed by enslaved black people and you're a bigot who hates religious freedom if you have a problem with that.
 
If what you are looking for is what JWs believe then the likely best way to discover this is to read what they say they believe rather than the claims about what they believe posted by outsiders. The JW do have web sites for those who are curious.

Surprising to me is that even the Amish who do not use electricity have a website to explain their religion for the curious.

I don't want to read it on a Jehova Witness website. I have trust issues. I want to read something with an objective stance. A regular academic piece.
:confused: Beliefs have nothing to do with objectivity. Only the person who believes can tell you what they believe and why they believe it. What you are apparently looking for is some scholar's "analysis" of what they believe the JW believe justified by what that scholar believes about them.

Does a Catholic who is taking communion really believe that they have a slab of Jesus' flesh in their mouth and that the liquid they sip from the cup is actually Jesus' blood? Or do they just see it as a symbolic ritual, knowing it is only a thin wafer and wine? Official cannon says the first but the reality of what the people believe can be quite different.
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_beliefs

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the present world order, which they perceive as being under the control of Satan, will be destroyed by a direct intervention of Jehovah (God), who will use Jesus Christ to fully establish his heavenly government over earth, destroying existing human governments and non-Witnesses,[6][7][8] and creating a cleansed society of true worshippers. They see their mission as primarily evangelical (disseminating "good news"), to warn as many people as possible in the remaining time before Armageddon.[9][10] All members of the religion are expected to take an active part in preaching.[11] Witnesses refer to all their beliefs collectively as "the Truth".[12]

*boggle*
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_beliefs

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the present world order, which they perceive as being under the control of Satan, will be destroyed by a direct intervention of Jehovah (God), who will use Jesus Christ to fully establish his heavenly government over earth, destroying existing human governments and non-Witnesses,[6][7][8] and creating a cleansed society of true worshippers. They see their mission as primarily evangelical (disseminating "good news"), to warn as many people as possible in the remaining time before Armageddon.[9][10] All members of the religion are expected to take an active part in preaching.[11] Witnesses refer to all their beliefs collectively as "the Truth".[12]

*boggle*
That bit of the JW beliefs and practice looks like it fits in precisely with all the other evangelical Christian sects.

AHA! I found a site that lists the difference in dogma of JW and other Christian sects... enjoy.

http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jwdiff.html
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_beliefs

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the present world order, which they perceive as being under the control of Satan, will be destroyed by a direct intervention of Jehovah (God), who will use Jesus Christ to fully establish his heavenly government over earth, destroying existing human governments and non-Witnesses,[6][7][8] and creating a cleansed society of true worshippers. They see their mission as primarily evangelical (disseminating "good news"), to warn as many people as possible in the remaining time before Armageddon.[9][10] All members of the religion are expected to take an active part in preaching.[11] Witnesses refer to all their beliefs collectively as "the Truth".[12]

*boggle*

In other words, "Meet the new boss .... same as the old boss."
 
If what you are looking for is what JWs believe then the likely best way to discover this is to read what they say they believe rather than the claims about what they believe posted by outsiders. The JW do have web sites for those who are curious.

Surprising to me is that even the Amish who do not use electricity have a website to explain their religion for the curious.

I don't want to read it on a Jehova Witness website. I have trust issues. I want to read something with an objective stance. A regular academic piece.

.

It is difficult to find truly objective about the JW's, simply because most who write about them fall into a few general categories, JW apologists, other religious sects, and former JW's.

The Jehovah's Witness are a Christian sect which professes that the end of the world is near and only a select few will be saved from and brought to God's Kingdom.

The JW's have fallen prey to the perennial problem of all end of the world cults. When you think the end is near, it's hard to resist naming a day for it to happen. It does make planning easier if you have a date. As we all know, that date hasn't actually arrived.

It has been predicted several times, all of which never came to pass. Each time, it's said that more time has been granted to gather more people for the elect. This brings up another problem, which is what to do when you have gathered more than the enumerated elect. The elect still get elected, but a special class of Heaven is reserved for the remainders.

To sum up, the JW's are an evangelical sect which believes in a certain end time, followed by the Kingdom of God, a special selection of those who will enter this kingdom, believe they have been commanded to enlist new people into their group, and follow specific customs about everyday life, which distinguishes them from other Christian sects.

These customs include a refusal to pay honor to governments. JW's will not partake in the US Pledge of Allegiance and claim Conscientious Objector status for military service. They also do not allow blood transfusions, even at the risk of life.

Personal anecdote about Jw's.

In the small farm town where my father grew up, there was a small group of Jehovah's Witness's. Most of the people in the area were either Methodist or Baptist. He dated a JW girl while in high school, but ended the relationship after he met the young woman who eventually would be my mother. The family story relates that the JW girl was devastated and pleaded for him to take her back, to the point of embarrassment. It didn't help.

She eventually married a non-JW man. This guy was later critically injured in a motorcycle accident. He was unconscious and the hospital staff asked his wife to sign the consent forms for his emergency treatment. This would include blood transfusions and she refused. He soon died. Whether or not he would have lived, if given blood, is difficult to say. His family was very angry.

Within 6 months, she had remarried, to another non-JW man and moved to Florida.
 
I don't want to read it on a Jehova Witness website. I have trust issues. I want to read something with an objective stance. A regular academic piece.
:confused: Beliefs have nothing to do with objectivity. Only the person who believes can tell you what they believe and why they believe it. What you are apparently looking for is some scholar's "analysis" of what they believe the JW believe justified by what that scholar believes about them.

Does a Catholic who is taking communion really believe that they have a slab of Jesus' flesh in their mouth and that the liquid they sip from the cup is actually Jesus' blood? Or do they just see it as a symbolic ritual, knowing it is only a thin wafer and wine? Official cannon says the first but the reality of what the people believe can be quite different.

Don't be silly. Comparative religion is a perfectly fine academic subject. There's no problem analysing claims and inferences from an objective stance. Whether or not the cracker is actually the blood of Jesus is irrelevant.
 
:confused: Beliefs have nothing to do with objectivity. Only the person who believes can tell you what they believe and why they believe it. What you are apparently looking for is some scholar's "analysis" of what they believe the JW believe justified by what that scholar believes about them.

Does a Catholic who is taking communion really believe that they have a slab of Jesus' flesh in their mouth and that the liquid they sip from the cup is actually Jesus' blood? Or do they just see it as a symbolic ritual, knowing it is only a thin wafer and wine? Official cannon says the first but the reality of what the people believe can be quite different.

Don't be silly. Comparative religion is a perfectly fine academic subject. There's no problem analysing claims and inferences from an objective stance. Whether or not the cracker is actually the blood of Jesus is irrelevant.
Absolutely. Comparative religion is a valid academic subject. But the information needed to do the comparison can only come from what the various religions say is their cannon and dogma. This is why I suggested that if you want to know what the JW is about then you should read what they say it is about, not what an outsider says it is about. You would have to assume that some scholar did this and accepted what the JW said without any bias or preconceptions if you only want to accept a "scholarly" analysis of them. But then you can read what the JW say their faith is about yourself and not have to wonder if the "scholar" was being fair, thorough, and unbiased when they read what the JW say their principles are.

But then you were talking about beliefs. Maybe I am being overly specific here but I see a big difference in what a religion states as their dogma and cannon and what the followers of that religion actually believe and practice. At one time I was pretty much a religious thrill seeker and studied several very different religions and always found a great deal of differences in the official religious dogma and how the followers saw the religion. It was only in the smaller cults that I saw people accepting or even understanding the "deeper" ideas of the organization - but then there isn't too much "deep" about the cult, usually just a couple idiotic ideas that are easy to understand. That was the reason for the example of Catholic communion. I learned about the official position of transubstantiation and thought it was pretty gross so talked to several Catholics and found that most had never heard of it - only considering communion a ritual they had never thought very deeply about. Those who I spoke with who knew about the idea of transubstantiation thought it was just silly philosophical nonsense. But for the official church it is a very big deal. It was one of the points of contention for the Protestant Reformation.
 
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I made some Jehovah's Witnesses go pale when I offered to read a little of Apocalypse Delayed by M. James Penton to them.

Apparently it's a book they are not allowed to read. Penton was a former Witness and the book is a decent read.

Cheers Jonah
 
Above all else -- from the materialist point of view -- The Witness movement claims human lives every year because of their belief that blood transfusions are against the will of God. In that respect, they are as pernicious as the Christian Scientists who force themselves or their family members to forgo medical treatment because the NT talks about healing by laying on of hands. In the Jehovah's theology, blood transfusions are an anathema not because the OT has a section on microsurgery or emergency room triage (that may be in the Apocrypha, but I haven't looked) but because of DIETARY LAWS FROM FIVE THOUSAND YEARS AGO. And that's reason enough to risk your life or even die.
Russell was an out-and-out zany who was into numerology. He had numerological theories based on dimensions of the EGYPTIAN PYRAMIDS (fer Christsake) that are as nutty as any of Farakkan's pronouncements. (I probably misspelled Farakkan, but he's not worth a Google.)
 
Finally a topic where I can contribute. :)

I was raised as a JW from the time I was about 8 until I was 20, this was from the 1970s to 1991 when I finally told them I was done. My information only applies to that time period, I'm sure their beliefs have changed since then for several reasons.

It is staggering the amount of cognitive dissonance they employ, both about Russel and about the world in general. Russel used the cross and pyramidology in his publications, wore a huge beard and the early church celebrated things like birthdays. Today JWs are not allowed to wear beards, can't celebrate birthdays and view pyramidology as part of the occult. Basically, while holding their founder in high regard they basically are forbidden from doing anything he did- his actions would have gotten him kicked out of the modern church.

Back when I attended college education was forbidden. I think they have changed their tune on that, but us school aged kids were constantly told not to go to college because Jesus was returning soon and our time was better spent knocking on doors to convert people and sell magazines. It sucks, because most of the kids my age listened and took menial jobs making minimal money while spending 60-100 hours per month knocking on doors. There are other measurements of success besides money, but my generation in that church was often living with their parents well into adulthood because they simply couldn't make enough money to live on. Several of my friends even dropped out of high school with the church's blessing, to spend more time knocking on doors.

Their beliefs on the blood issue are constantly changing- they used to deny vaccines for the same reason as blood transfusions but changed theirs stance. They used to not allow any blood derived products, but have slowly changed their position on that as well. I have no idea what is allowed now, but I remember things changing when I was a kid and thinking about the people who had died refusing something that was later allowed. They would occasionally publish an article in their Awake magazine with pictures of all the kids that died refusing blood transfusions and talking about how great and brave they were, basically brainwashing everyone into getting ready to let their kids die for no good reason. In retrospect it's disgusting.

Russel had a few dates picked out for the end of the world- I think they were mostly in the late 1800s. Once that didn't happen, they moved on to 1914. Once that didn't happen, they claimed Jesus took over heaven in 1914 (apparently Satan was in control up until then) and kicked Satan to earth. The belief then was that the generation born in 1914 would still be alive for Armageddon. For a while there was an unofficial (but never discouraged) belief that the end would come in 1976 because that was exactly 6000 years after Adam was created. They are YECs, if that wasn't obvious. That didn't happen, but back in the 1980s when I was still a member there was a very strong belief that it was coming before the end of the century. People born in 1914 were getting old and people love to pick even, round numbers for events. I disassociated myself (you have to formally leave to really not be considered a member) in 1991 so am not sure what happened after 2000 came and went.

Their tag line on their publications used to state that Jesus would return before the generation born in 1914 died out, I'm sure they have since removed that. But to the question about how you can be wrong so many times and still stay in business- the human brain is fantastic and rationalizing things. Combine that with some tried and true brainwashing techniques and you have a recipe for exactly what you see now.
 
Finally a topic where I can contribute. :)

I was raised as a JW from the time I was about 8 until I was 20, this was from the 1970s to 1991 when I finally told them I was done. My information only applies to that time period, I'm sure their beliefs have changed since then for several reasons.

It is staggering the amount of cognitive dissonance they employ, both about Russel and about the world in general. Russel used the cross and pyramidology in his publications, wore a huge beard and the early church celebrated things like birthdays. Today JWs are not allowed to wear beards, can't celebrate birthdays and view pyramidology as part of the occult. Basically, while holding their founder in high regard they basically are forbidden from doing anything he did- his actions would have gotten him kicked out of the modern church.

Back when I attended college education was forbidden. I think they have changed their tune on that, but us school aged kids were constantly told not to go to college because Jesus was returning soon and our time was better spent knocking on doors to convert people and sell magazines. It sucks, because most of the kids my age listened and took menial jobs making minimal money while spending 60-100 hours per month knocking on doors. There are other measurements of success besides money, but my generation in that church was often living with their parents well into adulthood because they simply couldn't make enough money to live on. Several of my friends even dropped out of high school with the church's blessing, to spend more time knocking on doors.

Their beliefs on the blood issue are constantly changing- they used to deny vaccines for the same reason as blood transfusions but changed theirs stance. They used to not allow any blood derived products, but have slowly changed their position on that as well. I have no idea what is allowed now, but I remember things changing when I was a kid and thinking about the people who had died refusing something that was later allowed. They would occasionally publish an article in their Awake magazine with pictures of all the kids that died refusing blood transfusions and talking about how great and brave they were, basically brainwashing everyone into getting ready to let their kids die for no good reason. In retrospect it's disgusting.

Russel had a few dates picked out for the end of the world- I think they were mostly in the late 1800s. Once that didn't happen, they moved on to 1914. Once that didn't happen, they claimed Jesus took over heaven in 1914 (apparently Satan was in control up until then) and kicked Satan to earth. The belief then was that the generation born in 1914 would still be alive for Armageddon. For a while there was an unofficial (but never discouraged) belief that the end would come in 1976 because that was exactly 6000 years after Adam was created. They are YECs, if that wasn't obvious. That didn't happen, but back in the 1980s when I was still a member there was a very strong belief that it was coming before the end of the century. People born in 1914 were getting old and people love to pick even, round numbers for events. I disassociated myself (you have to formally leave to really not be considered a member) in 1991 so am not sure what happened after 2000 came and went.

Their tag line on their publications used to state that Jesus would return before the generation born in 1914 died out, I'm sure they have since removed that. But to the question about how you can be wrong so many times and still stay in business- the human brain is fantastic and rationalizing things. Combine that with some tried and true brainwashing techniques and you have a recipe for exactly what you see now.

So you're saying that the ideas Charles Taze Russell were basically plucked from his ass, and that none of it makes any sense? Not even if we assume that the Bible is correct?
 
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