Charlie Kirk shot at (shot?) in Utah

[Elixir]

One of the points he makes is that cars are very dangerous, about 50,000 people each year die from automobile crashes. That's a cost that we, as a people, have decided is worth it in order to gain the benefits of automobiles. He pointed out that if citizens have the right to own guns, it's impossible to have zero gun-related deaths - it's not going to happen. His argument was that we should do everything we can to minimize those deaths, just as we do everything we can to reasonably minimize auto accidents and deaths. But if we wish to have gun rights in order to protect ourselves from a zealous government, then we as a society are accepting that there's going to be some deaths as a price for that right.

Too bad that we are not doing “everything we can to minimize” gun deaths.

The parallel of guns with cars continues to be used despite the absurdity of the comparison.

We could only hope that guns, designed for killing, were regulated as tightly as cars, not designed for killing.

I’m pro-Emily’s approach to gun control: license, registration, insurance, inspections, recalls. Take a number; I’ll be at window 3.

I think most of us would endorse those measures. I'd elevate traceability of both firearms and ammo to the highest priority level, and strongly restrict transfers of gun ownership, holding registered owners to some degree of accountability for use of a firearm in an illegal act, should they fail to report a transfer of ownership or a lost or stolen gun.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And, yes, sex work.

Sex work is work in the same way that child labor is labor. Call it what it actually is: exploitation and commodification of women's bodies for the sexual gratification of men who don't give a flying fuck about the welfare of the people that they're LITERALLY using.

Kirk supported sex workers! He just wanted them to be unpaid and only have one client... and clean the house and cook and laundry... when they aren't being submissive in bed. Oh, and they need to understand the whole men being men thing... a la Catherine Frazier in The Women.

 

[Emily Lake]

Clearly, she was taunting and triggered and we're not supposed to have any empathy for that (according to conservatives and Kirk), but we should. The truth is that her taunting while out of place was a reaction to feeling taunted herself. The racist language and attacks on Black women by Charlie Kirk were a contributing factor to activating her.

Do you genuinely believe that someone saying hurty words in a generalized sense is justification for such behavior? We should have empathy for the instigator behaving in an uncivil and aggressive manner... because her feelings were hurt by something said many months ago?

All you're doing is justifying the use of aggression and violence in response to words. That can turn against you very, very easily. We all have a duty and responsibility to behave civilly toward our fellow citizens regardless of whether we agree with them, and regardless of whether we even like them.

If Andy says something mean about Bob, that's not at all a good reason for Carl to attack Dave.

 

[Emily Lake]

I have no problem ending shit.

Yet you propose no end to the fascist shit that is going on.
Maybe you have no problem ending shit, but don't regard fascism as "shit".

I disagree with the overly expansive meaning of "fascist" that has been applied, and I think it's incredibly irresponsible and inflammatory. I also disagree with the overly expansive meaning of "nazi" that gets applied to any number of situations, "bigotry" applied to a disagreement over rights and safety, "communist" applied to anyone who wants to reduce the wealth gap, "slavery" applied to wage earners, and all sorts of other abuses of language that are intended to incite an emotional response and override reason.

Which freedoms have we lost?

As of today? The freedom speak out against a president, for one, i.e. freedom of speech.

Trump is an arrogant asshole and he's making piss-poor decisions that weaken the country and he's directly and personally adding to the increasing vitriol in the country.

Gee. Somehow I'm still here, and so are you, and so are a ton of political commentators and comedians who are making a living out of criticising him.

Yeah, I know you can spend the rest of the day listing types of speech that are not (yet) verboten without ever mentioning the types of speech that were once permitted and are now forbidden. The ones still permitted but under assault are more common. Pay attention.

What's forbidden? Please provide support for your assertion, preferably in the form of executive orders or laws. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Yeah, we haven't seen their [Christianity's] insanity in about 400 years or so.

WUT? You mean god no longer sends those he loves to eternal torture?
Which do you belief to have been purged in the last 400 years - that god loves us or that he sends people to eternal torture?
I'm less than 400 years old and have heard that shit right up to today, represented as "Christian" doctrine. And it's insane.

Let me guess - none of that is TROOO Xtian doctrine, right?

This is stupid, Elixir. You're quoting bible bullshit and pretending like the belief that sinners burn in hell is exactly the same as actual terrorists declaring the rest of the world to be infidels who should be murdered, blowing up people who make cartoons of mohammed, and women being denied even the most basic forms of human rights.

 

[Emily Lake]

One of the points he makes is that cars are very dangerous, about 50,000 people each year die from automobile crashes. That's a cost that we, as a people, have decided is worth it in order to gain the benefits of automobiles. He pointed out that if citizens have the right to own guns, it's impossible to have zero gun-related deaths - it's not going to happen. His argument was that we should do everything we can to minimize those deaths, just as we do everything we can to reasonably minimize auto accidents and deaths. But if we wish to have gun rights in order to protect ourselves from a zealous government, then we as a society are accepting that there's going to be some deaths as a price for that right.

Too bad that we are not doing “everything we can to minimize” gun deaths.

The parallel of guns with cars continues to be used despite the absurdity of the comparison.

We could only hope that guns, designed for killing, were regulated as tightly as cars, not designed for killing.

First off... you've entirely missed the point, and you've snipped my post in order to support your wrong point. But I'm not surprised.

I support licensing, with required training. I don't support the removal of a constitutional right.

 

[Elixir]

I disagree with the overly expansive meaning of "fascist" that has been applied, and I think it's incredibly irresponsible and inflammatory.

You may disagree, but you are unable to iterate how the current administration is variant in its pursuit of autocracy from 1930s Germany.
I think it’s incredibly irresponsible, unAmerican and reprehensible to condemn people for noticing internal corruption of democracy.

You're quoting bible bullshit and pretending like the belief that sinners burn in hell is exactly the same as actual terrorists

Putting words in my mouth AGAIN. So stupid and weak. Nowhere did I make that equivocation - it’s all yours and methinks she doth protest too much.

What it is, is what I offered it as an example of, and what you said disappeared 400 years ago;
CHRISTIAN INSANITY.

Calling it Bible bullshit might sort of absolve YOU, but not Christianity.

 

[ZiprHead]

Officials Reveal Whether Kirk Shooter Had Ties To Left-Wing Groups | iHeart

Multiple officials have revealed whether Tyler Robinson, the suspect arrested in the assassination of conservative political activist Charlie Kirk, had ties to left-wing groups. | iHeart

www.iheart.com

A federal investigation into Tyler Robinson, the suspect arrested in the assassination of conservative political activist Charlie Kirk, has reportedly has no link to left-wing groups, three sources with knowledge of the situation confirmed to NBC News.

“Thus far, there is no evidence connecting the suspect with any left-wing groups," one source said. “Every indication so far is that this was one guy who did one really bad thing because he found Kirk’s ideology personally offensive."

President Donald Trump and his administration have pledged to crack down on left-wing groups that they presumed to be linked to Robinson, 22, following Kirk's shooting. The president announced he planned to designate Antifa as a "major terrorist organization" in a post shared on his Truth Social account.

 

[Shadowy Man]

One of the points he makes is that cars are very dangerous, about 50,000 people each year die from automobile crashes. That's a cost that we, as a people, have decided is worth it in order to gain the benefits of automobiles. He pointed out that if citizens have the right to own guns, it's impossible to have zero gun-related deaths - it's not going to happen. His argument was that we should do everything we can to minimize those deaths, just as we do everything we can to reasonably minimize auto accidents and deaths. But if we wish to have gun rights in order to protect ourselves from a zealous government, then we as a society are accepting that there's going to be some deaths as a price for that right.

Too bad that we are not doing “everything we can to minimize” gun deaths.

The parallel of guns with cars continues to be used despite the absurdity of the comparison.

We could only hope that guns, designed for killing, were regulated as tightly as cars, not designed for killing.

First off... you've entirely missed the point, and you've snipped my post in order to support your wrong point. But I'm not surprised.

Why are you not surprised? Are you assuming things about me you don’t know?

I snipped the part I wanted to respond to. Perhaps it is a different point but it is still a valid point to address. I agree that if we constitutionally allow guns there will be unwanted gun deaths.

I support licensing, with required training. I don't support the removal of a constitutional right.

I agree with your first sentence. However, it’s not like constitutional rights are absolute. I support the process for amending the constitution should the people desire to do so. I don’t think the second would be repealed but I don’t hold it in such high regard that I feel it shouldnt or couldnt be.

 

[Elixir]

However, it’s not like constitutional rights are absolute.

That one is. It is holier than Jesus to the insecure gun-toting wimps that comprise the bulk of the gun customer base. It’s not like the right to abortion.

 

[southernhybrid]

Officials Reveal Whether Kirk Shooter Had Ties To Left-Wing Groups | iHeart

Multiple officials have revealed whether Tyler Robinson, the suspect arrested in the assassination of conservative political activist Charlie Kirk, had ties to left-wing groups. | iHeart

www.iheart.com

A federal investigation into Tyler Robinson, the suspect arrested in the assassination of conservative political activist Charlie Kirk, has reportedly has no link to left-wing groups, three sources with knowledge of the situation confirmed to NBC News.

“Thus far, there is no evidence connecting the suspect with any left-wing groups," one source said. “Every indication so far is that this was one guy who did one really bad thing because he found Kirk’s ideology personally offensive."

President Donald Trump and his administration have pledged to crack down on left-wing groups that they presumed to be linked to Robinson, 22, following Kirk's shooting. The president announced he planned to designate Antifa as a "major terrorist organization" in a post shared on his Truth Social account.

Trump doesn't want to know the truth. All he cares about is punishing anyone who speak out against him. That, at least most of us know is a violation of the first amendment, as well as the 4th amendment, considering how ICE sweeps people off of the street without any evidence they are here illegally etc.

The only amendment Trump and company care about is the 2nd amendment. I know plenty of gun owners who use guns safely, but I still hate guns and wish the 2nd had never been passed. Plus the disgusting members of SCOTUS have made it easy for anyone to own guns, no background checks, no safety training, no problem. if you've been treated for mental illness in the past, no problem. Fuck it. Guns are all these people care about.

 

[robnisch]

MSN

Jimmy is coming back!
Wonder what he said that changed their mind?

 

[Shadowy Man]

However, it’s not like constitutional rights are absolute.

That one is. It is holier than Jesus to the insecure gun-toting wimps that comprise the bulk of the gun customer base. It’s not like the right to abortion.

Emily didn’t say she doesn’t support removal of the second amendment, she said “a Constitutional right”, seemingly implying that once a right is granted within the constitution it shan’t be removable. I disagree with this. But perhaps I am “unsurprisingly” misquoting her.

 

[southernhybrid]

MSN

Jimmy is coming back!
Wonder what he said that changed their mind?

I just read that but you beat me to it. I'm guessing that sometimes fighting for our rights works, so let's not give up the fight. I'm going to read the entire NYT articles about it so see what it says.

 

[Elixir]

she said “a Constitutional right”, seemingly implying that once a right is granted within the constitution it shan’t be removable.

Did she forget about Roe?
FWIW I don’t support the removal of the 2nd. Amendment. I do support a modernized interpretation, given the “arms” the “right to bear” referred to when it was written and ratified.

 

[Arctish]

But to have the Governor of Texas bragging about the arrest of the hat-knocker and saying it was because they made a taunt is a ridiculous overreaction. It's like Gov. Abbot celebrating the arrest of someone who smashed a pumpkin. Yes, it's a civil offense. No, it doesn't deserve the attention of the highest levels of state governance even if what was carved on the pumpkin was offensive to someone.

Agree, it was completely inappropriate for Abbot to portray it that way. Had she actually been arrested merely for taunting protestors, that would have been an extreme abuse of power.

It might have been an assault. Or it might have been the result of careless contact in a crowd. Or it might have been the result of a defensive move, like putting up hands to ward off someone screaming in your face.

Well, in this case we've got a fair bit of video of her being the one screaming in people's faces and being disorderly.

We have video evidence of what happened now that I found some and posted a link for the rest of us to see.

Where do you see her screaming in people's faces, though? The loudest she got in the video I posted was when she was shouting and clapping her hands for emphasis. There was a fair bit of separation between her and the person she was shouting at. Is there a video of her screaming at multiple people at very close range?

 

[Derec]

Second, Harris’s loss was primarily tied to the economy. As vice president, she was seen as the de facto incumbent and bore responsibility for public dissatisfaction with inflation, interest rates, and economic uncertainty (Pew Research, 2024).

Saying that nothing comes to mind when asked what she would do differently from Joe Biden hurt her a lot in that regard.

Immigration was also a major issue, but much of today’s crisis stems from policies and structural issues dating back to Trump’s administration, broader economic push factors in sending countries, and Trump explicitly instructing his party not to participate in bipartisan immigration legislation during the Biden presidency.

The crisis has its origins well before the Trump administration, for example sanctuary city policies of Dem strongholds or weaponization of asylum by economic migrants (we see that a lot in Europe too).

The “culture war” talking points (DEI, “wokeness,” etc.) were secondary—amplified by pundits and influencer wannabes who already opposed liberal positions on those issues and are now using Harris’s loss as an excuse to push their own agendas.

Inability of some Dems to moderate on these issues certainly hurt the Dem brand. Attacking Dems who dare suggest trans women should not compete in women's sports because they have essentially male bodies comes to mind. Or holding fast to the idea of racial preferences when the idea is so unpopular it could not pass in California in 2020. Kamala's plan for forgivable loans for blacks only is part of that nonsense as well.

On performance, Harris decisively outmatched Trump in the debates—fact-checkers consistently noted she was far more accurate and composed.

And yet she lost the election. And to say that this was chiefly because the voters are racist and/or sexist is giving her a pass for her mistakes, and the Biden administration a pass for theirs. Chief among them, Biden not bowing out in Summer 2023 so Dems could have a proper primary season.

 

[Derec]

Disagree. Radical Christianity is way out there, also. It's just we haven't seen much of their insanity.

At their historical worst, they are comparable.
As far as their actual practice in the here and now, there is no comparison.

 

[Derec]

It has been pointed out to you consistently that the left doesn't defend "Islamism" but rather we just happen not to believe every single Muslim is an evil terrorist.

Nobody is saying that "every single Muslim is a terrorist". But Muslims are highly overrepresented among terrorists.
And the Left certainly has a soft spot for Islamism. That's why it embraces people like Linda "Cockroach" Sarsour and Hasan Piker.

You just conflate the two things because you're an idiot.

Throwing insults around is the typical tactic of the Left.

 

[Derec]

There were people using the protests as cover for criminal activity. The BLM crowd was very unhappy with being blamed for the acts of those who followed in their wake. I don't believe it was so much false flag as opportunistic.

I disagree that rioting and other violence can be neatly separated from #BLM. Sure, looting for monetary gain can be apolitical, but even there, #BLMers have defended it.
‘Winning Has Come Through Revolts’: A Black Lives Matter Activist On Why She Supports Looting
But rioting and breaking/burning stuff has always been part of the #BLM MO, ever since Ferguson.

 

[Politesse]

Throwing insults around is the typical tactic of the Left.

He says, in the very same five-sentence long post in which he also calls someone a "cockroach"...