Charlie Kirk shot in Utah

[Toni]

For the last several years, in the US, firearms have been the leading cause of death for children and teenagers, eclipsing automobile or other accidents, cancer and other diseases.

One of the reasons is that life has become so much safer for children and teenagers that others causes of death have become very rare. That's a good thing.
But you also have to consider that the risk of firearm death is much, much higher for teenagers than for children, and that's because teenagers who get killed with firearms are often participants in these crimes - for example, they get involved in robberies or are victims and perpetrators of gang shootings.

For example this one: Suspects in deadly shooting near Atlantic Station take guilty pleas

Without easy access to firearms, fewer minors would lose their lives to gun violence.

I never quite get how it is that to you, once someone is over the age of 12, they no longer count: they are fuckable and deserve to die violent deaths, especially if they are not white.

Gun deaths among U.S. kids rose 50% from 2019 to 2021 | Pew Research Center

In 2021, there were 2,590 gun deaths among U.S. children and teens under the age of 18, up from 1,732 in 2019.

www.pewresearch.org

The number of children and teens killed by gunfire in the United States increased 50% between 2019 and 2021, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of the latest annual mortality statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

What in the holy fuck?

?

I was referencing your crude, malicious, uncalled for comment about Derec that I bolded. That is:

I never quite get how it is that to you, once someone is over the age of 12, they no longer count: they are fuckable and deserve to die violent deaths, especially if they are not white.

It is hard for me to imagine anyone so vile that that would accurately describe them. You need to read rule #7 of the IIDB rules. You really should apologize, IMHO.

Yeah I thought that was what you meant. And I agree with you.

You're probably not aware of Derec's stance on Brooke Shields.

I looked up his "stance" on Brooke Shields. It was a dark comedy joke about Brooke playing the role of Ginger on "Epstein's Island" given she's a minor and lived on an island in the movie "The Blue Lagoon" (similar to "Gilligan's Island). He's not expressing any lust for her or wishing her to die a violent death.

I’m sorry you don’t find anything inappropriate about some of the hand waving re: casting a 12 year old as a prostitute in a romanticized way or ‘joking’ about a 14 year old in a sexual relationship while stranded on and island or Epstein’s island. That is all beyond crass in my opinion.

 

[Elixir]

I'm not even a conservative though! It's intensely frustrating,

It is was a free country; you can call yourself whatever you fancy.
I s’pose not worshiping Trump makes you a screaming lib’rul in his book.
Requiring legal oversight/second opinions on emergency abortions and allowing punks carrying loaded rifles to demonstrations and shoot people with impunity might just make you a xenophobic conservotard to others.
My opinion is just my opinion, based on a presumably small sample of Emily. Don’t take it so hard.

 

[ZiprHead]

Yes. Several people in this thread have taken the position that Rittenhouse did NOT have a right to self-defense... because he shouldn't have been present in the first place, and the fact that he was present and in possession of a firearm makes Rittenhouse the aggressor, and it makes Rosenbaum's actions of chasing down, cornering, and attacking Rittenhouse into a defensive action, and therefore Rittenhouse is a murderer.

Rittenhouse was in violation of the clean hands law doctrine. He purchased the weapon illegally. He entered a closed zone illegally, He was carrying the weapon illegally and it was reported he brandished the weapon which is very illegal and can get you shot if you do it towards police officers.

I know, I know. He totally brought it on himself, he's to blame for being chased, cornered, and attacked by someone else. Did you see what he was wearing?

There's not a single person that night (except for perhaps cops and EMTs) who was there legally - therefore not a single person had clean hands by your logic.

I agree, actually. But people get pissed/anxious when someone points a semi auto weapon at them.

People also get terrified and anxious when a grown-ass adult chases them, corners them, and tries to physically attack them.

Why were grown ass adults chasing him?

 

[ZiprHead]

You are doing nothing but making the perfect the enemy of the good.

Me: I think firearms should require training, qualifying, and licensing
You: You're making perfect the enemy of good!

Somehow me not supporting a complete ban on firearms and the overturning of a fundamental constitutional right fits your description? Please explain.

That's not what you said that I responded to and quite dishonest to imply it was.

You said "Making firearms illegal doesn't entirely eliminate firearm deaths. And we have laws against shooting people too." which is what I responded to with

You are doing nothing but making the perfect the enemy of the good.

How does training, qualifying, and licensing change the attitude of person who wants to use their gun for nefarious purposes? Or someone who obtained their gun illegally without background check or training?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I'm not even a conservative though! It's intensely frustrating,

Yeah, and I'm not saying people should physically attack Rittenhouse "purely for his political beliefs" but you keep baselessly claiming that anyway. Oh you're so misunderstood, boo fucking hoo.

 

[Elixir]

Re gun laws:

@ZiprHead -
Do you consider the AU model too lax?
@Emily Lake -
Do you consider the AU model too restrictive?

Just trying to narrow down the point of disagreement, if there is one.

 

[ZiprHead]

What in the holy fuck?

?

thebeave was questioning the loaded text suggesting they care about the age or race of gun violence victims, when in reality, they simply don't care about gun violence victims (regardless of race or age) enough to suggest government needs to do anything more about firearms.

He can suggest away but I have a feeling he’d look at things differently if middle aged middle class white guys on their way to work were ‘collateral damage’ in gang wars.

These people didn't care enough to suggest any change when white elementary school children were mowed down in Connecticut.

This has nothing to do with race or age. It has everything to do with a sense of extreme overemphasis of personal freedom over that of public safety.

You are putting words in my mouth as usual. In my 24 years on this forum I have said very little about guns or gun control. I searched on myself under "guns" and found only one time where I contributed to a gun control discussion, and it was pretty basic milquetoast stuff. I mostly lurk and learn on this topic, as I don't feel I have the necessary knowledge about guns and gun control in general to make a meaningful contribution. My silence on the subject does not mean I want to see children mowed down with guns in school or don't care, which is what you seem to be implying. For what its worth (not that you will remember), I don't own a gun, I don't want to ever own a gun and I haven't fired a gun in decades. They are not a part of my life in any way. I'm not a staunch 2A advocate. I simply recognize that guns and the 2A is here and is not going away anytime soon. I don't have answers or strong opinions for how to cure the gun ills in this country. Whether its a "left wing" or "right wing" solution I don't give a shit. Just that they be effective, and definitely don't make matters worse.

On a lighter note, I came across this thread while searching my past comments on guns. Watch the video in the link. Its pretty hilarious. I think Ziprhead and myself are going to need to do a walk of shame for our comments.
.
You Will Love This

Oh, I still think she is hot but she's a right wing moron one step above trailer trash. Jerking off a guy in a theater, marrying a guy that exposes himself to kids in a bowling alley, raising a child to become a criminal.

 

[ZiprHead]

Re gun laws:

@ZiprHead -
Do you consider the AU model too lax?
@Emily Lake -
Do you consider the AU model too restrictive?

Just trying to narrow down the point of disagreement, if there is one.

I think the Aussie model to be just fine. I might tweak some of the details if I cared enough to study it further but I accept Bilby's description of it.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Re gun laws:

@ZiprHead -
Do you consider the AU model too lax?
@Emily Lake -
Do you consider the AU model too restrictive?

Just trying to narrow down the point of disagreement, if there is one.

I think the Aussie model to be just fine. I might tweak some of the details if I cared enough to study it further but I accept Bilby's description of it.

Hang on, Bilby personally confirmed to me Australia doesn't exist.

 

[ZiprHead]

Re gun laws:

@ZiprHead -
Do you consider the AU model too lax?
@Emily Lake -
Do you consider the AU model too restrictive?

Just trying to narrow down the point of disagreement, if there is one.

I think the Aussie model to be just fine. I might tweak some of the details if I cared enough to study it further but I accept Bilby's description of it.

Hang on, Bilby personally confirmed to me Australia doesn't exist.

He was injured by a drop bear attack and it affected his memory. He probably just forgot it was there.

 

[Elixir]

Re gun laws:

@ZiprHead -
Do you consider the AU model too lax?
@Emily Lake -
Do you consider the AU model too restrictive?

Just trying to narrow down the point of disagreement, if there is one.

I think the Aussie model to be just fine. I might tweak some of the details if I cared enough to study it further but I accept Bilby's description of it.

Hang on, Bilby personally confirmed to me Australia doesn't exist.

That’s one solution to any “gun problem”.

 

[Derec]

I sincerely apologize if I broke any rules or offended anyone, including Derec.

The problem is that you get personal every I disagree with you about issues of laws affecting minors.

I am often stunned by some of the logic applied as to whose lives and deaths matter and whose do not, based upon the posts of some of the posters here.

It's not about not mattering, it's about recognizing that innocent bystanders are different than active participant in gang crimes. Innocent bystanders can be any age, but it is teenagers (and sometimes older preteens too) that get involved with gangs.
And I will always see somebody like 11 year old Tyesha Edwards, killed while she was doing homework in her room, very differently than somebody like Myon Burrell, then 16, who shot her while aiming at a rival gang member. No matter how much the likes of Walz, Ellison and Moriarty like him.

My shock and disbelief created a longer and stronger than I realized effect which affected my judgement.

Shock and disbelief that I think children and teenagers are different when it comes to behavior and judgment we may expect of them? Really?

 

[Derec]

You're probably not aware of Derec's stance on Brooke Shields.

I enjoyed seeing her in that Blue Lagoon movie when I saw it couple of years younger than she was in it (in real life, she is a more than few years older, I saw it on VHS).
I guess I'm a monster for it ...

What does that have to do with the issue I was making about how "guns are biggest cause of death for minors" has mostly to do with teenagers, not children? It was Toni who somehow brought sex into it, apropos of nothing except her personal obsessions.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Re gun laws:

@ZiprHead -
Do you consider the AU model too lax?
@Emily Lake -
Do you consider the AU model too restrictive?

Just trying to narrow down the point of disagreement, if there is one.

I think the Aussie model to be just fine. I might tweak some of the details if I cared enough to study it further but I accept Bilby's description of it.

Hang on, Bilby personally confirmed to me Australia doesn't exist.

Yeah, it is a made up place of awfulness where everything can kill people and cricket is the top sport, in order to scare people into behaving... kind of like hell but hotter and less hospitable.

 

[Toni]

I sincerely apologize if I broke any rules or offended anyone, including Derec.

The problem is that you get personal every I disagree with you about issues of laws affecting minors.

I am often stunned by some of the logic applied as to whose lives and deaths matter and whose do not, based upon the posts of some of the posters here.

It's not about not mattering, it's about recognizing that innocent bystanders are different than active participant in gang crimes. Innocent bystanders can be any age, but it is teenagers (and sometimes older preteens too) that get involved with gangs.
And I will always see somebody like 11 year old Tyesha Edwards, killed while she was doing homework in her room, very differently than somebody like Myon Burrell, then 16, who shot her while aiming at a rival gang member. No matter how much the likes of Walz, Ellison and Moriarty like him.

My shock and disbelief created a longer and stronger than I realized effect which affected my judgement.

Shock and disbelief that I think children and teenagers are different when it comes to behavior and judgment we may expect of them? Really?

Yes, I am still shocked and incredulous that you seem to believe that a 16 year old reasons more like a 22 year old than like a 12 year old.

A 16 year old is more likely to engage in all sorts of risky behavior than a 12 year old but they do not have sufficient life experience nor brain development compared with someone in their 20’s. But because many physically resemble adults, some people conflate body size and secondary sexual characteristics with maturity and adulthood . To the great detriment of the 16 year olds and society as a whole.

I’m not certain why you believe that Myron Burrell is liked by individuals who have not met him. At least you have compassion for Tyesha Edwards. Too bad you could find none for Tamir Rice.

 

[Derec]

Wait, are we pretending Derec cares about whether or not certain people die when he literally doesn't care if George Floyd died?

Since I did not know him, I do not see why I should care about him more than any other person dying.
I think his takedown was improper, but it was manslaughter at most, not murder, as there was no intent and because Floyd's extreme fentanyl and methamphetamine intoxication (leading to pulmonary edema which already diminished his lung's gas exchange) as well as chronic drug abuse (leading to e.g. cardiomegaly) greatly contributed to his death, but these factors were downplayed to appease the rioters. Chauvin is certainly no more culpable than Noor, who gunned down an innocent woman for no reason and only served five years.

Floyd's death certainly did not justify months of very destructive and deadly rioting. Nor does it justify the overreaches in our culture and corporate America regarding "reckoning on race" that followed. I firmly believe that these overreaches set the stage for Trump's return in 2024 once the insanity of 2020 itself faded from public consciousness.

 

[Toni]

You're probably not aware of Derec's stance on Brooke Shields.

I enjoyed seeing her in that Blue Lagoon movie when I saw it couple of years younger than she was in it (in real life, she is a more than few years older, I saw it on VHS).
I guess I'm a monster for it ...

What does that have to do with the issue I was making about how "guns are biggest cause of death for minors" has mostly to do with teenagers, not children? It was Toni who somehow brought sex into it, apropos of nothing except her personal obsessions.

Teenagers are children.

 

[Derec]

Do you remember the thread on the death of Tamir Rice? I do. More than one poster blamed the twelve year old playing in the park for his death at the hands of police.

His actions contributed to it, especially removing of the orange tip of the realistic replica he was playing with. Nobody was claiming that the two cops do not share in the blame as well.

More than one poster has no problem with Blue Lagoon or Pretty Baby starring a young girl.

We have already discussed that, and it has nothing to do with the issue of gun crime.
Why do you keep bringing it up?

Perhaps that should not affect me as much as it does.

Definitely.

Perhaps that should bother people more than it does.

No. And it certainly has no place in this thread.

 

[Derec]

Teenagers are children.

Wrong. These are distinct stages of human development. And some teenagers (18-19) are not even minors.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Floyd's death certainly did not justify months of very destructive and deadly rioting.

Yup, lots of people here agree, rioting bad. They would disagree on the extent of the rioting.

(And saying BLM set the stage for Trump's return is wild, while ignoring decades of conservative policy but whatever). Not to mention, a big thing about 2024 was them egg prices.