Christianity and slavery (Split from Who Should Pay Child Support)

[Trausti]

The basic principle is "children are the property of their fathers". If you accept that one axiom, most of what they conclude becomes a compelling conclusion.

Eh? Isn't the RCC position that of universalism, that God loves everyone, especially the meek? That's the whole ethos of Christianity.

 

[bilby]

Your humanity or individuality in no way entitles you to my body, because I TOO AM A HUMAN AND AN INDIVIDUAL

Except when it comes to taxation. Amirite?

No.

I am absolutely unshocked to discover that youarerong. As well as wildly off-topic.

 

[bilby]

The basic principle is "children are the property of their fathers". If you accept that one axiom, most of what they conclude becomes a compelling conclusion.

Eh? Isn't the RCC position that of universalism, that God loves everyone, especially the meek? That's the whole ethos of Christianity.

Their actions are so loud that they completely drown out their words.

 

[steve_bank]

The basic principle is "children are the property of their fathers". If you accept that one axiom, most of what they conclude becomes a compelling conclusion.

Eh? Isn't the RCC position that of universalism, that God loves everyone, especially the meek? That's the whole ethos of Christianity.

As I was taught in catechism, the RCC is THE universal one and only true Christian church. God speaks to pope, pope spaks to children of god, children of god obey.

 

[Trausti]

The basic principle is "children are the property of their fathers". If you accept that one axiom, most of what they conclude becomes a compelling conclusion.

Eh? Isn't the RCC position that of universalism, that God loves everyone, especially the meek? That's the whole ethos of Christianity.

As I was taught in catechism, the RCC is THE universal one and only true Christian church. God speaks to pope, pope spaks to children of god, children of god obey.

I think "Catholic" means universal. But you may recall univeralism was kind of Paul's pitch.

 

[Trausti]

The basic principle is "children are the property of their fathers". If you accept that one axiom, most of what they conclude becomes a compelling conclusion.

Eh? Isn't the RCC position that of universalism, that God loves everyone, especially the meek? That's the whole ethos of Christianity.

Their actions are so loud that they completely drown out their words.

No shit. Once it became political it acted political.

 

[bilby]

The basic principle is "children are the property of their fathers". If you accept that one axiom, most of what they conclude becomes a compelling conclusion.

Eh? Isn't the RCC position that of universalism, that God loves everyone, especially the meek? That's the whole ethos of Christianity.

Their actions are so loud that they completely drown out their words.

No shit. Once it became political it acted political.

So your objection to my comment is about 1500 years out of date.

 

[TomC]

As I was taught in catechism, the RCC is THE universal one and only true Christian church. God speaks to pope, pope spaks to children of god, children of god obey.

I was taught that as well.

I was still in single digits when I stopped believing it. I may have been the only atheist in my Confirmation Class, but maybe not.
Tom

 

[Trausti]

The basic principle is "children are the property of their fathers". If you accept that one axiom, most of what they conclude becomes a compelling conclusion.

Eh? Isn't the RCC position that of universalism, that God loves everyone, especially the meek? That's the whole ethos of Christianity.

Their actions are so loud that they completely drown out their words.

No shit. Once it became political it acted political.

So your objection to my comment is about 1500 years out of date.

Nah, the RCC has done bad things, but the Christian faith holds that as a central tenet. It was the basis for slavery abolition, after all.

 

[TomC]

Nah, the RCC has done bad things, but the Christian faith holds that as a central tenet. It was the basis for slavery abolition, after all.

No the Christian faith does not.

Which is why the bulk of slavers in 1880 were Christians. At least here in the USA.

The RCC was no big ethical improvement over the rest of Christian culture and ethics. But it wasn't very different from most of them.

It wasn't until Christians started adopting secular values and ethics that Christendom started improving, ethically.

Now, Christians like to pretend that secular morality and ethics are Scriptural. But they're not.
Tom

 

[Trausti]

Nah, the RCC has done bad things, but the Christian faith holds that as a central tenet. It was the basis for slavery abolition, after all.

No the Christian faith does not.

Which is why the bulk of slavers in 1880 were Christians. At least here in the USA.

The RCC was no big ethical improvement over the rest of Christian culture and ethics. But it wasn't very different from most of them.

It wasn't until Christians started adopting secular values and ethics that Christendom started improving, ethically.

Now, Christians like to pretend that secular morality and ethics are Scriptural. But they're not.
Tom

What reason, do you think, that it was Western Christians - and no other society or civilization in history - which arrived at the idea that slavery was wrong? And, come one, Western secular morality is just Christianity without the church. Individual rights, protecting the weak, poor, and marginalized. Only a culture steeped in Christianity could produced  Charles_George_Gordon. Ironically, the Great Awokening is just another ripple of Christianity.

 

[laughing dog]

Nah, the RCC has done bad things, but the Christian faith holds that as a central tenet. It was the basis for slavery abolition, after all.

No the Christian faith does not.

Which is why the bulk of slavers in 1880 were Christians. At least here in the USA.

The RCC was no big ethical improvement over the rest of Christian culture and ethics. But it wasn't very different from most of them.

It wasn't until Christians started adopting secular values and ethics that Christendom started improving, ethically.

Now, Christians like to pretend that secular morality and ethics are Scriptural. But they're not.
Tom

What reason, do you think, that it was Western Christians - and no other society or civilization in history - which arrived at the idea that slavery was wrong? And, come one, Western secular morality is just Christianity without the church. Individual rights, protecting the weak, poor, and marginalized. Only a culture steeped in Christianity could produced  Charles_George_Gordon. Ironically, the Great Awokening is just another ripple of Christianity.

Christianity was used to justify slavery for more centuries than it was to abolish it. It is pretty desperate to claim Christianity was the reason for the abolishment of slavery.

 

[Tigers!]

Nah, the RCC has done bad things, but the Christian faith holds that as a central tenet. It was the basis for slavery abolition, after all.

No the Christian faith does not.

Which is why the bulk of slavers in 1880 were Christians. At least here in the USA.

The RCC was no big ethical improvement over the rest of Christian culture and ethics. But it wasn't very different from most of them.

It wasn't until Christians started adopting secular values and ethics that Christendom started improving, ethically.

Now, Christians like to pretend that secular morality and ethics are Scriptural. But they're not.
Tom

What reason, do you think, that it was Western Christians - and no other society or civilization in history - which arrived at the idea that slavery was wrong? And, come one, Western secular morality is just Christianity without the church. Individual rights, protecting the weak, poor, and marginalized. Only a culture steeped in Christianity could produced  Charles_George_Gordon. Ironically, the Great Awokening is just another ripple of Christianity.

Christianity was used to justify slavery for more centuries than it was to abolish it. It is pretty desperate to claim Christianity was the reason for the abolishment of slavery.

If you could name one non-Christian country, group etc. that abolished slavery I would be most obliged.

 

[Elixir]

If you could name one non-Christian country, group etc. that abolished slavery I would be most obliged.

USA
It has a secular Constitution. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
And correlation is not causation. Wording matters, too.
Self-identified Christians make up 63% of the U.S. population in 2021 according to Pewresearch. But "Christian" is a broad umbrella encompassing many different denominations, sects and cults, some of whom differ so wildly with others that they war with each other over their beliefs (though they don't carry out their wars so much in the US).
Many survey respondents probably think of themselves as christian (adjective), and so answer in the affirmative. I was told as a tot that when it came to food I should have "Catholic taste', meaning new or different foods were to be embraced and appreciated. Having a "Christian" attitude of kindness to others was more important than anything about a church.
By any definition though, The United States of America is not a "Christian Country", its many Trumpsuckers' self identification notwithstanding.

 

[Tigers!]

If you could name one non-Christian country, group etc. that abolished slavery I would be most obliged.

USA
It has a secular Constitution. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
And correlation is not causation. Wording matters, too.
Self-identified Christians make up 63% of the U.S. population in 2021 according to Pewresearch. But "Christian" is a broad umbrella encompassing many different denominations, sects and cults, some of whom differ so wildly with others that they war with each other over their beliefs (though they don't carry out their wars so much in the US).
Many survey respondents probably think of themselves as christian (adjective), and so answer in the affirmative. I was told as a tot that when it came to food I should have "Catholic taste', meaning new or different foods were to be embraced and appreciated. Having a "Christian" attitude of kindness to others was more important than anything about a church.
By any definition though, The United States of America is not a "Christian Country", its many Trumpsuckers' self identification notwithstanding.

Sorry I was not clear enough.
If you could name a non-Christian country that did have a majority of its citizens who were not familiar with Christian thought and belief who abolished slavery.
And giving the figures of self-identified Christians in 20201 is irrelevant since slavery was abolished in the 1860s.

 

[laughing dog]

Nah, the RCC has done bad things, but the Christian faith holds that as a central tenet. It was the basis for slavery abolition, after all.

No the Christian faith does not.

Which is why the bulk of slavers in 1880 were Christians. At least here in the USA.

The RCC was no big ethical improvement over the rest of Christian culture and ethics. But it wasn't very different from most of them.

It wasn't until Christians started adopting secular values and ethics that Christendom started improving, ethically.

Now, Christians like to pretend that secular morality and ethics are Scriptural. But they're not.
Tom

What reason, do you think, that it was Western Christians - and no other society or civilization in history - which arrived at the idea that slavery was wrong? And, come one, Western secular morality is just Christianity without the church. Individual rights, protecting the weak, poor, and marginalized. Only a culture steeped in Christianity could produced  Charles_George_Gordon. Ironically, the Great Awokening is just another ripple of Christianity.

Christianity was used to justify slavery for more centuries than it was to abolish it. It is pretty desperate to claim Christianity was the reason for the abolishment of slavery.

If you could name one non-Christian country, group etc. that abolished slavery I would be most obliged.

There is a whole list of countries that abolished slavery ( Timeline_of_abolition_of_slavery_and_serfdom) which includes the Maurya Empire (India) in 3rd century BC and the Xin Dynasty in 9-12 AD. There are quite a few more.

 

[Tigers!]

Nah, the RCC has done bad things, but the Christian faith holds that as a central tenet. It was the basis for slavery abolition, after all.

No the Christian faith does not.

Which is why the bulk of slavers in 1880 were Christians. At least here in the USA.

The RCC was no big ethical improvement over the rest of Christian culture and ethics. But it wasn't very different from most of them.

It wasn't until Christians started adopting secular values and ethics that Christendom started improving, ethically.

Now, Christians like to pretend that secular morality and ethics are Scriptural. But they're not.
Tom

What reason, do you think, that it was Western Christians - and no other society or civilization in history - which arrived at the idea that slavery was wrong? And, come one, Western secular morality is just Christianity without the church. Individual rights, protecting the weak, poor, and marginalized. Only a culture steeped in Christianity could produced  Charles_George_Gordon. Ironically, the Great Awokening is just another ripple of Christianity.

Christianity was used to justify slavery for more centuries than it was to abolish it. It is pretty desperate to claim Christianity was the reason for the abolishment of slavery.

If you could name one non-Christian country, group etc. that abolished slavery I would be most obliged.

There is a whole list of countries that abolished slavery ( Timeline_of_abolition_of_slavery_and_serfdom) which includes the Maurya Empire (India) in 3rd century BC and the Xin Dynasty in 9-12 AD. There are quite a few more.

There is a different between claims to abolish slavery and actually doing it. Alexander II abolished serfdom in Russia in 1861 but it made no appreciate able difference to the peasants.

(Perhaps we are getting close to a derail of this thread)

 

[bilby]

The basic principle is "children are the property of their fathers". If you accept that one axiom, most of what they conclude becomes a compelling conclusion.

Eh? Isn't the RCC position that of universalism, that God loves everyone, especially the meek? That's the whole ethos of Christianity.

Their actions are so loud that they completely drown out their words.

No shit. Once it became political it acted political.

So your objection to my comment is about 1500 years out of date.

Nah, the RCC has done bad things, but the Christian faith holds that as a central tenet. It was the basis for slavery abolition, after all.

Christianity was also the basis for slavery itself.

The central tenet of Christianity is "Whatever you want to do is justified by Christianity".

Oddly, that's also the central tenet of Islam.

 

[bilby]

What reason, do you think, that it was Western Christians - and no other society or civilization in history - which arrived at the idea that slavery was wrong?

Because they had the first Industrial Revolution.

What, did you think it was something special about their religious beliefs?

Christianity was around for 1800 years, before anyone noticed that it condemns slavery? Don't make me laugh.

 

[bilby]

There is a different between claims to abolish slavery and actually doing it.

Careful with those goalposts.

Make sure you lift with your knees, or you could put your back out.