Chronicles in Post Racial America: Bus Fare Violations

[Nice Squirrel]

The survey data was collected between 2014 and 2015. According to a self-reported ridership survey, 56% of Metro Transit riders are white, 27% black, 6% Asian, 3% Native American and 8% identified as other. The report did not factor in youth ridership.

The report found the largest racial disparity was within the black population and native American population. The report says "black adults" were 38% "more likely" to be arrested for fare evasion rather than warned compared with "white adults." Also, "Native Americans" were 93% "more likely" to be arrested rather than warned when compared to "white adults." Those numbers decreased when the report compared citations rather than warnings. The report states, "this analysis cannot distinguish whether uneven enforcement rates are due to bias in enforcement of reflect differences in actual incident levels across racial groups."

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/20...s-racial-disparities-in-enforcement/77518986/

My NA friends have said this for years.

______________________

Have at it guys!

 

[barbos]

what is your/their point?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

That NAs are more likely to be arrested and harassed in my city.

 

[Toni]

That NAs are more likely to be arrested and harassed in my city.

I've always been stunned by the animosity directed towards Native Americans.

 

[barbos]

That NAs are more likely to be arrested and harassed in my city.

Have you tried to suggest paying fares?

 

[Metaphor]

That NAs are more likely to be arrested and harassed in my city.

The article states at least three kinds of punitive outcomes for fare evasion: warnings, citations, and arrests. It is not clear from the article, but presumably that is the order of severity.

Presumably, given your OP and thread title, you regard this as evidence of racist discrimination, even though, as the article itself states,

The report states, "this analysis cannot distinguish whether uneven enforcement rates are due to bias in enforcement of reflect differences in actual incident levels across racial groups."

Now, it seems to me that multiple-occasion evaders warrant increasingly serious outcomes. Additionally, even a 'first time' evader might warrant a citation or arrest if they are physically or verbally abusive to the inspection officer.

So: what evidence is there that there's been discrimination, versus a higher level of fare evasion from black and native American riders?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

The article states at least three kinds of punitive outcomes for fare evasion: warnings, citations, and arrests. It is not clear from the article, but presumably that is the order of severity.

Presumably, given your OP and thread title, you regard this as evidence of racist discrimination, even though, as the article itself states,

The report states, "this analysis cannot distinguish whether uneven enforcement rates are due to bias in enforcement of reflect differences in actual incident levels across racial groups."

Now, it seems to me that multiple-occasion evaders warrant increasingly serious outcomes. Additionally, even a 'first time' evader might warrant a citation or arrest if they are physically or verbally abusive to the inspection officer.

So: what evidence is there that there's been discrimination, versus a higher level of fare evasion from black and native American riders?

What evidence do you have that Native American are 93% more likely to deserve arrest than white people?

The ACLU asked for this report and the police dept supplied it. I don't see the ACLU accepting this report or the police dept fashioning it the way they did if the numbers did not point to a problem which the police admit exists. The police involved and on the hot seat see a problem and yet you can't?

 

[Metaphor]

What evidence do you have that Native American are 93% more likely to deserve arrest than white people?

Nobody deserves to be discriminated against in the justice system. But if Native Americans, through their actions, place themselves in the category of 'warranting arrest' more often, that is not discrimination by the justice system.

The ACLU asked for this report and the police dept supplied it. I don't see the ACLU accepting this report or the police dept fashioning it the way they did if the numbers did not point to a problem which the police admit exists. The police involved and on the hot seat see a problem and yet you can't?

The police did not admit a problem existed. They admitted the possibility of a problem.

Now, as it turns out, I wholeheartedly agree with their recommendations: that first time offenders should never be arrested. If you have the discretion to arrest or provide a citation or provide a warning, then you the discretion to discriminate. As I've said ad nauseam, the way to stop discriminating by race is to stop discriminating by race.

(I make an exception for defined, specific circumstances, like if a first-time violator is physically violent with the inspecting officer -- then they should be arrested).

 

[JonA]

The report states, "this analysis cannot distinguish whether uneven enforcement rates are due to bias in enforcement of reflect differences in actual incident levels across racial groups."

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/20...s-racial-disparities-in-enforcement/77518986/

This is something I was curious about when I first heard the story on the radio. I'm very disappointed that the report doesn't address this at all.

Without this measurement the other numbers in the report mean nothing.

 

[laughing dog]

So: what evidence is there that there's been discrimination, versus a higher level of fare evasion from black and native American riders?

How in the world would the police be able to determine who has an ACTUAL rate of fare evasion from their arrest data? More importantly, why would anyone think that any particular group (racial or otherwise) would have such a radically higher rate of fare evasion to warrant a 93% difference?

While this data does not prove discrimination, it does indicate there is some sort of problem.

Now, if you lived in Minnesota for any length of time, you'd have noticed there is significant animosity/resentment against Native Americans from the white residents.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Nobody deserves to be discriminated against in the justice system. But if Native Americans, through their actions, place themselves in the category of 'warranting arrest' more often, that is not discrimination by the justice system.

The ACLU asked for this report and the police dept supplied it. I don't see the ACLU accepting this report or the police dept fashioning it the way they did if the numbers did not point to a problem which the police admit exists. The police involved and on the hot seat see a problem and yet you can't?

The police did not admit a problem existed. They admitted the possibility of a problem.

Now, as it turns out, I wholeheartedly agree with their recommendations: that first time offenders should never be arrested. If you have the discretion to arrest or provide a citation or provide a warning, then you the discretion to discriminate. As I've said ad nauseam, the way to stop discriminating by race is to stop discriminating by race.

(I make an exception for defined, specific circumstances, like if a first-time violator is physically violent with the inspecting officer -- then they should be arrested).

from the StarTribune

No easy explanation

"This study tells me that we have a problem," said Metro Transit Police Chief John Harrington, who admitted he "doesn't have an easy or facile explanation how this happens." Of the 100 full-time Metro Transit police officers, 35 percent are considered "diverse," up from 5 percent just a few years ago.

Following the study and discussion with the Minneapolis NAACP, Metro Transit police agreed to issue warnings for first-time fare evaders, instead of immediate citations.

The department will also partner with the Minneapolis-based nonprofit Council on Crime and Justice to review its policies and procedures, following with recommendations for the Metropolitan Council to ensure racial equity in policing. After a year, the changes and data will be reviewed again, and the results released to the public, Metro Transit said.

Adam Duininck, chair of the Metropolitan Council, said the "disparity numbers are not acceptable and are something we need to fix."

The study comes at a time when the regional planning agency has placed a premium on advancing equity in the Twin Cities region it covers — a new Equity Advisory Committee will begin to meet next year.

While saying he's proud of the way Metro Transit has tackled issues revealed in the study, Duininck said, "there's got to be a better way to do responsible policing.

http://www.startribune.com/study-na...ro-transit-police-for-fare-evasion/362846081/

 

[Derec]

So what do you think is the solution Athena? Impose racial quotas on citations and arrests no matter how many actual violations there are by race?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So what do you think is the solution Athena? Impose racial quotas on citations and arrests no matter how many actual violations there are by race?

Well, the solution would be to treat all the races equally

Data collected from January 2014 through August involving 7,136 arrests and citations indicate that American Indians are 152 percent more likely and black adults are 26 percent more likely to be cited for first-time fare evasion than their white counterparts.

If whites are vastly more likely to receive a warning instead of a citation than minorities in the exact same situation, that's indicative of far more of a problem on the enforcement side than on the compliance side. The department's solution of creating a policy of always giving a warning for first time offenders is exactly the sort of solution they should be implementing.

 

[rousseau]

The article states at least three kinds of punitive outcomes for fare evasion: warnings, citations, and arrests. It is not clear from the article, but presumably that is the order of severity.

Presumably, given your OP and thread title, you regard this as evidence of racist discrimination, even though, as the article itself states,

The report states, "this analysis cannot distinguish whether uneven enforcement rates are due to bias in enforcement of reflect differences in actual incident levels across racial groups."

Now, it seems to me that multiple-occasion evaders warrant increasingly serious outcomes. Additionally, even a 'first time' evader might warrant a citation or arrest if they are physically or verbally abusive to the inspection officer.

So: what evidence is there that there's been discrimination, versus a higher level of fare evasion from black and native American riders?

Believe me, there is undoubtedly undue racial discrimination toward blacks, native americans, and other non-white races amongst law enforcement.

My city, as an example, has in the past few years allowed random 'carding' of people on the street to try to solve crimes. Even though this practice has had a negligible affect on the solving of crimes, numerous studies have shown that, normalizing for racial proportions, people of colour are way, way more likely to be carded.

Scientifically speaking it's exactly what you'd expect from a policing agency that is predominantly white.

http://www.lfpress.com/2015/10/14/carding-stats-show-racial-bias-on-police-force-critics-say

 

[thebeave]

Do we know what the racial breakdown of the Metro officers are? Whenever I see these kinds of reports about racial discrimination, there seems to be this implicit assumption that its white people who are the ones who are the bullies, but that's not clear from this report. Is it race discrimination if a black bus driver is harsher on black riders? It could also be that its just a handful of officers (whose race we don't know) are the ones who are being consistently harsh on violators, thus skewing the results. I think we need to see more detail on what the race of the Metro officers are, versus the offenders.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

So what do you think is the solution Athena? Impose racial quotas on citations and arrests no matter how many actual violations there are by race?

courtesy. That is the solution. It's an old fashioned notion I know. But it was the first rule of good policing according to my father. 25 years on the job, never pulled his gun.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Do we know what the racial breakdown of the Metro officers are? Whenever I see these kinds of reports about racial discrimination, there seems to be this implicit assumption that its white people who are the ones who are the bullies, but that's not clear from this report. Is it race discrimination if a black bus driver is harsher on black riders? It could also be that its just a handful of officers (whose race we don't know) are the ones who are being consistently harsh on violators, thus skewing the results. I think we need to see more detail on what the race of the Metro officers are, versus the offenders.

Yes, if black officers are being harsher on black riders, it's racial discrimination. It's the race of the target which is important, not the race of the perpetrator. Also, the department in question is 65% white.

 

[Derec]

courtesy. That is the solution.

Courtesy is a two way street.

It's an old fashioned notion I know. But it was the first rule of good policing according to my father. 25 years on the job, never pulled his gun.

He would have if the perp was shooting at him, like this fare violator.
Police: Man initially believed slain by officers killed himself
He ended up shooting himself. Didn't stop the protesters of course.

 

[thebeave]

Do we know what the racial breakdown of the Metro officers are? Whenever I see these kinds of reports about racial discrimination, there seems to be this implicit assumption that its white people who are the ones who are the bullies, but that's not clear from this report. Is it race discrimination if a black bus driver is harsher on black riders? It could also be that its just a handful of officers (whose race we don't know) are the ones who are being consistently harsh on violators, thus skewing the results. I think we need to see more detail on what the race of the Metro officers are, versus the offenders.

Yes, if black officers are being harsher on black riders, it's racial discrimination. It's the race of the target which is important, not the race of the perpetrator. Also, the department in question is 65% white.

Hmm, I guess you could be right about racial discrimination. I've just never heard of a case of someone being charged or dragged into court for discriminating against their own race. I guess it could happen. Doesn't make for a good narrative or media circus, though.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Metaphor raises a good question. Tom Sawyer seems to have supplied the answer. There is a problem here of unequal punishment of the law. Whether it is "racial discrimination" is less important than it is violating their civil rights, lets fucking stop the unequal punishments and move forward.

So what do you think is the solution Athena? Impose racial quotas on citations and arrests no matter how many actual violations there are by race?

I think Athena would more likely suggest equal protection of the law or some shit like that. Jesus fucking christ! What the hell man?!