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CIA says "High Confidence" that Putin involved with Hacking

Is Russian hacking, assuming it's so, a threat only if it can be proved to your satisfaction that it influenced the election?

Unsuccessful attempts to influence the election don't count?

There are so many threats that can't be proven. That's why it's important to have so many intelligence agencies run by paranoid fantasists.

That's why it's important to send your young men to die in wars you never win. It all makes sense.

Are Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction only a threat when you can prove they exist? Or are they are threat when someone lies and tells you they exist?

Threats can be insured against with proactive measures. I think the intelligence services have done a good job on this. Here there is the accusation of interference with a US election, proof is required for such a serious accusation.

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Is Russian hacking, assuming it's so, a threat only if it can be proved to your satisfaction that it influenced the election?

Unsuccessful attempts to influence the election don't count?

Not if you're an alt-right European who subscribes to a faux "religion" whose founder has announced that foudning a religion is a great money making scam. :rolleyes:

Your missing the point again.
 
I don't see why that's any less true for Russia than the US.

And.....?

And...Russia has a clear geopolitical interest in getting Trump elected. So when Russia and Trump say they didn't, and US intelligence says they did, there aren't many places to go when they're all liars.

To my mind, the biggest argument in favor is Trumps consistent pro-Russia attitude, one of his few consistencies. At the same time, he was denying as late as July that he'd ever met Putin. Why should he give a shit? He displays no principles at any other time.

I doubt it made much difference. Comey I think was more influential. But that doesn't mean it wasn't attempted.
 
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And.....?

And...Russia has a clear geopolitical interest in getting Trump elected. So when Russia and Trump say they didn't, and US intelligence says they did, there aren't many places to go when they're all liars.

To my mind, the biggest argument in favor is Trumps consistent pro-Russia attitude, one of his few consistencies. At the same time, he was denying as late as July that he'd ever met Putin. Why should he give a shit? He displays no principles at any other time.

I doubt it made much difference. Comey I think was more influential. But that doesn't mean it wasn't attempted.
Having motive is not enough for conviction. Saddam Husein had a motive too.

So far, public part of the CIA report can be summed up as "We don't like that guy, he looks guilty, russian propaganda blah-blah-blah"
Leaks from the secret part of the report imply that NSA (I guess) have phone conversations where russian officials congratulate each other on Trump victory.
I have a question for NSA/CIA (I know you are listening :) ) Have you considered that these congratulations could have been jokes?
 
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And...Russia has a clear geopolitical interest in getting Trump elected. So when Russia and Trump say they didn't, and US intelligence says they did, there aren't many places to go when they're all liars.

To my mind, the biggest argument in favor is Trumps consistent pro-Russia attitude, one of his few consistencies. At the same time, he was denying as late as July that he'd ever met Putin. Why should he give a shit? He displays no principles at any other time.

I doubt it made much difference. Comey I think was more influential. But that doesn't mean it wasn't attempted.
Having motive is not enough for conviction. Saddam Husein had a motive too.

So far, public part of the CIA report can be summed up as "We don't like that guy, he looks guilty, russian propaganda blah-blah-blah"
Leaks from secret part of the report implies that NSA (I guess) have phone conversations where russian officials congratulate each other on Trump victory.
I have a question for NSA/CIA (I know you are listening :) ) Have you considered that these congratulations could have been jokes?

Correct: Them total of evidence to support the theory that the Russians lost the election for the Democrats is zilch, nil, zero, dick, nought.

I have some latest information below which confirms there is still nothing of substance 'worth writing home about.'

Some lengthy but interesting reading which shows nothing has been concluded as given in the Pro Clinton Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/04/what-do-we-actually-know-about-the-russia-assange-hacking-allegations/?utm_term=.4bcd1c24f267

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ng-on-russian-hacking/?utm_term=.93a5219e56b7


QUOTE: The three intelligence officers released a statement before the hearing. One key line in it read that only “Russia's senior-most officials” could have authorized the hacking of the Democratic Party's emails.UNQUOTE

And here
QUOTE: Most recently, Trump promoted a theory by WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange that Russia had nothing to do with the hack — taking him at his word, despite the findings of his own intelligence community.
Clapper dismissed that idea outright on Thursday, and The Post's nonpartisan fact-checking team said Assange's claims that Russia wasn't involved are a “distortion of the facts.” UNQUOTE

And Here where I have highlighted and coloured in blue.
QUOTE: No one alleging Russian hacking has insinuated that it propelled Trump to victory, and intelligence officials repeated that Thursday.
Clapper: “We have no way of gauging the impact, certainly the intelligence community can’t gauge the impact, it had on choices the electorate made.”
Senate Republicans tried to make that clear as well:a
UNQUOTE

Assage claimed that with the Democrats accidentally revealing its password, a 14 year old could have hacked into its account.
Per the latest news there is still nothing to show how any hacking affected the Democrat votes.

So if there no way to prove it was the Russians and any impact in such a case what's all the bleating about. Are the Russians are so b-a-a-a-ah-d?
 
Clearly the Russians now control you, through their fat, idiotic puppet. What you deserve!
 
And.....?

And...Russia has a clear geopolitical interest in getting Trump elected. So when Russia and Trump say they didn't, and US intelligence says they did, there aren't many places to go when they're all liars.

To my mind, the biggest argument in favor is Trumps consistent pro-Russia attitude, one of his few consistencies. At the same time, he was denying as late as July that he'd ever met Putin. Why should he give a shit? He displays no principles at any other time.

I doubt it made much difference. Comey I think was more influential. But that doesn't mean it wasn't attempted.

While the trump chumps choose to focus myopically on repeating that Russia's efforts were not a factor in the electoral outcome, they align themselves quite neatly, exactly as Putin directs them. "I don't want conclusions, I want EVIDENCE!" is a call for the US to reveal all means and methods by which the intelligence community has come to the grave conclusion that Russia is trying to destroy the American democracy. THAT is the issue, not the orange moron's personal quest for credibility (that he will never have). Uncle Vlad is giggling in glee, as his orange puppet complies with the directive to destroy the credibility and effectiveness of the US intelligence community in the eyes of the public and the mind of the US groper-in-chief.
 
I'm not claiming conviction, so I don't know why you're in a tither.

But, besides Russia having a clear motive, what's the rational for US intelligence's motive?

The suggestion among the Putin apologists here is that US intelligence is deliberately lying. With all the accusations in the air, they have to weigh in. They could've said no evidence, yes evidence or no comment. Saying there's evidence puts them at odds with the man who's going to be their boss in a couple of weeks. The FBI in particular, who did everything they could for Trump, and had more influence in the outcome, has agreed. I don't see what they gain by that.

One person who has credibility with me is Garry Kasparov, and for him there is no doubt:

While Putin and his supporters use investments and advertising in the Western world, hacking has become another ideal method to gain influence, Kasparov wrote.
"Hacking is an ideal new front in this type of shadow war. It's difficult to trace and, like terrorist attacks, cyberwar has a very high impact-to-cost ratio," he continued.

Also it seems obvious to me that Assange & Co. has a great deal to lose if Wikileaks appears to be a tool of intelligence agencies. Plenty of motive there.

So, while granted there's no proof, I think it's more likely than not that Putin is behind it.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ga...Putin-hacking-sanctions/2017/01/03/id/766533/
 
Your missing the point again.

You have no point. Continually reciting the mantra you have been given is not the same as making a point.
Attempts to influence our elections are a paramount concern. The (lack of) credibility of a giant orange buffoon is not the issue.
 
I'm not claiming conviction, so I don't know why you're in a tither.

But, besides Russia having a clear motive, what's the rational for US intelligence's motive?
What motive do they have? Are you serious? Neocons have always hated Russia, and especially Putin.
 
One person who has credibility with me is Garry Kasparov, and for him there is no doubt:
Sure, the guy who tried to bribe his way into president of chess federation. And the one who has a temper that of a Trump actually.
US administration has a knack for choosing assholes as allies, as long as they say "I hate Putin" you are fine it seems. Who else has credibility with you? Saakashvili?
 
One person who has credibility with me is Garry Kasparov, and for him there is no doubt:
Sure, the guy who tried to bribe his way into president of chess federation. And the one who has a temper that of a Trump actually.
US administration has a knack for choosing assholes as allies, as long as they say "I hate Putin" you are fine it seems. Who else has credibility with you? Saakashvili?

Compared to authoritarian dictators like Putin, sure. Can you prove FIDE is not directed by the Russian govt?

And you're right. Look at Trump sucking up to Putin.

So who has credibility with you besides Putin and Saddam Hussein?
 
I'm not claiming conviction, so I don't know why you're in a tither.

But, besides Russia having a clear motive, what's the rational for US intelligence's motive?
What motive do they have? Are you serious? Neocons have always hated Russia, and especially Putin.

So there's no logic, no gain, only blind hatred behind their lies?
 
Sure, the guy who tried to bribe his way into president of chess federation. And the one who has a temper that of a Trump actually.
US administration has a knack for choosing assholes as allies, as long as they say "I hate Putin" you are fine it seems. Who else has credibility with you? Saakashvili?

Compared to authoritarian dictators like Putin, sure. Can you prove FIDE is not directed by the Russian govt?
I don't know whether or not russian government runs FIDE but the fact of a bribe is not in dispute by anybody including Kasparov and his accomplice.
Kasparov is potentially a bigger dictator than a dozen of Putins.
And you're right. Look at Trump sucking up to Putin.

So who has credibility with you besides Putin and Saddam Hussein?
Certainly not assholes who say things which Western media automatically likes.
The whole thing with this credibility is exactly what is wrong with this. Everything seems to rest on credibility now, not on any kind of facts.
 
And...Russia has a clear geopolitical interest in getting Trump elected. So when Russia and Trump say they didn't, and US intelligence says they did, there aren't many places to go when they're all liars.

To my mind, the biggest argument in favor is Trumps consistent pro-Russia attitude, one of his few consistencies. At the same time, he was denying as late as July that he'd ever met Putin. Why should he give a shit? He displays no principles at any other time.

I doubt it made much difference. Comey I think was more influential. But that doesn't mean it wasn't attempted.

While the trump chumps choose to focus myopically on repeating that Russia's efforts were not a factor in the electoral outcome, they align themselves quite neatly, exactly as Putin directs them. "I don't want conclusions, I want EVIDENCE!" is a call for the US to reveal all means and methods by which the intelligence community has come to the grave conclusion that Russia is trying to destroy the American democracy. THAT is the issue, not the orange moron's personal quest for credibility (that he will never have). Uncle Vlad is giggling in glee, as his orange puppet complies with the directive to destroy the credibility and effectiveness of the US intelligence community in the eyes of the public and the mind of the US groper-in-chief.

Take aside whether the Russians did it or not, whether we actually believe they did, how do does anyone disprove a negative? That is to say there is nothing by way of evidence to answer. Even the CIA (as I quoted from the Washington Post which is favourable to the Democrats) says there is no evidence the ‘Russians actually influenced the election.’
The CIA has not established the Russians hacked the particular files in question, and has not established how this affected the election.
There may be ‘certainty the Russians ‘’did it’ but even the CIA is saying (as I quoted earlier) this isn’t proven. So why does anyone need to disprove something that cannot be proven.
Realistically, it would take a considerable more objectivity on the part of the CIA who to be honest are very disappointing in their performance on this.

I’m sure an Atheist would not want to prove there is no God’. However this works in the same way’; you can’t disprove a negative
However given the password was inadvertently released, and then anyone who noticed it would have access to the Democrat files.

In the first instance the investigators will have the task of establishing a direct line of activities to establish this originating from the Russians to the Democrat files. This will involve your expertise but the CIA would need to establish links where emails were not used. It's a lot of work.

I think an investigation through the chaos of different sources and dead ends and sometimes false information so I am sure this would take a considerable amount of time.
Did the Russians pass information from their sources to others in a chain of persons? It could have done. However once this is established, how did this information affect the Clinton Campaign and make it lose the election, for which no one has given an answer yet.

To solve this will require a grope effort, sorry group effort.
 
I don't know whether or not russian government runs FIDE but the fact of a bribe is not in dispute by anybody including Kasparov and his accomplice.
Kasparov is potentially a bigger dictator than a dozen of Putins.

I'll take the first point as a "yes" which explains the second. Kasparov denies it was a bribe. So, pick your baby.

Certainly not assholes who say things which Western media automatically likes.
The whole thing with this credibility is exactly what is wrong with this. Everything seems to rest on credibility now, not on any kind of facts.

So your criteria for credibility is opposition to western media. How objective.

As for facts, they're not available to us, so we have to make judgments as best we can.

Putin is a corrupt murdering dictator. Hardly enemy number one, hardly a national emergency, especially given Russia's weakness, but more enemy than friend.
 
Sure, the guy who tried to bribe his way into president of chess federation. And the one who has a temper that of a Trump actually.
US administration has a knack for choosing assholes as allies, as long as they say "I hate Putin" you are fine it seems. Who else has credibility with you? Saakashvili?

Compared to authoritarian dictators like Putin, sure. Can you prove FIDE is not directed by the Russian govt?

And you're right. Look at Trump sucking up to Putin.

So who has credibility with you besides Putin and Saddam Hussein?

Is FIDE directed by the Russian government? This is the question.
 
I'll take the first point as a "yes" which explains the second. Kasparov denies it was a bribe. So, pick your baby.
He may be be denying calling it a bribe but he does not deny any of the facts which went into his 2 year ban for that.
Certainly not assholes who say things which Western media automatically likes.
The whole thing with this credibility is exactly what is wrong with this. Everything seems to rest on credibility now, not on any kind of facts.

So your criteria for credibility is opposition to western media. How objective.
That's not what I said. I said that your criteria for credibility is hating Putin.
As for facts, they're not available to us, so we have to make judgments as best we can.

Putin is a corrupt murdering dictator. Hardly enemy number one, hardly a national emergency, especially given Russia's weakness, but more enemy than friend.
Who did he murder?
 
That's not what I said. I said that your criteria for credibility is hating Putin.

I don't hate him, or think Putin is different from other strongmen, not especially distinctive as dictators go, beyond being more capable than most. At the same time, I don't buy into the Putin is good meme I see floating around the left.

But I think US policy towards Russia needs to be more balanced. Allowing Estonia into NATO and sending trrops and weapons there while simultaneously lifting sanctions isn't a coherent policy.

I doubt Trump has much idea of what he's doing.

Who did he murder?

Do some research. I'm not here to type essays for you.
 
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