Climate Change(d)?

[bilby]

My car's speed has always fluctuated, and often exhibited fairly rapid deceleration to zero.

Therefore crashing it into a brick wall at 100km/h is nothing to worry about.

 

[lpetrich]

Yes, the earth’s climate has always been subject to change, sometimes rapid changes at that. It fluctuates naturally.

Like how? Go into detail. Show your work. General assertions like those aren't good enough.

It’s not possible to stop it by putting in a few bike lanes and banning plastic straws. It’s just annoying.

I agree that teeny tiny half-measures won't do it. Bike lanes are good, and banning plastic straws is pointless and excessive. What we need is an end to fossil-fuel use, and fortunately, renewable energy sources are being developed at a surprisingly rapid pace.

 

[steve_bank]

Yes, the earth’s climate has always been subject to change, sometimes rapid changes at that. It fluctuates naturally. It’s not possible to stop it by putting in a few bike lanes and banning plastic straws. It’s just annoying.

Hnandwaving and misdirection. Ignoring that the most probable cause of our icreasing climate problems is man made.

Here in Seattle 7 day weter forcasts are pretty accurate. The models look at conditions out over the Pacific. The same kind of modeling and scince is used to analyze climate change,

 

[TSwizzle]

Hnandwaving and misdirection. Ignoring that the most probable cause of our icreasing climate problems is man made.

Hand waving and misdirection!? Lol. Stevie boy, I have no desire to get into it with religious fanatics. You believe what you do in the same way the christians believe in the resurrection or holy trinity. You’re an end of times, rapture believer. You believe what’s put in front of you and there will be no changing your mind. After all “the science is settled”, right? It’s not that important to me, I honestly think it has a comical slant to it. “We only have x years to save the planet”. How many times have we heard that? Lol. Give me peace.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, the earth’s climate has always been subject to change, sometimes rapid changes at that. It fluctuates naturally. It’s not possible to stop it by putting in a few bike lanes and banning plastic straws. It’s just annoying.

Just because it changes naturally doesn't mean we can't influence it.

Death is natural. Does that mean it's ok for me to kill you?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, the earth’s climate has always been subject to change, sometimes rapid changes at that. It fluctuates naturally.

Like how? Go into detail. Show your work. General assertions like those aren't good enough.

Most of us live in non-flat terrain. And we don't always drive with cruise control on. (Nor does the cruise control in most cars maintain an exact speed in encountering terrain anyway.)

It’s not possible to stop it by putting in a few bike lanes and banning plastic straws. It’s just annoying.

I agree that teeny tiny half-measures won't do it. Bike lanes are good, and banning plastic straws is pointless and excessive. What we need is an end to fossil-fuel use, and fortunately, renewable energy sources are being developed at a surprisingly rapid pace.

Bike lanes are not actually useful for reducing CO2 anyway. While bikes are good for fitness and are efficient when looked at directly they have an exceedingly inefficient power source and thus are not green.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, the earth’s climate has always been subject to change, sometimes rapid changes at that. It fluctuates naturally. It’s not possible to stop it by putting in a few bike lanes and banning plastic straws. It’s just annoying.

Hnandwaving and misdirection. Ignoring that the most probable cause of our icreasing climate problems is man made.

Here in Seattle 7 day weter forcasts are pretty accurate. The models look at conditions out over the Pacific. The same kind of modeling and scince is used to analyze climate change,

"Pretty accurate" is rather subjective. I wouldn't consider heading into the wilderness based on a forecast from 7 days out.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Hnandwaving and misdirection. Ignoring that the most probable cause of our icreasing climate problems is man made.

Hand waving and misdirection!? Lol. Stevie boy, I have no desire to get into it with religious fanatics. You believe what you do in the same way the christians believe in the resurrection or holy trinity. You’re an end of times, rapture believer. You believe what’s put in front of you and there will be no changing your mind. After all “the science is settled”, right?

Correct. The science is settled. We have changed the climate (past tense). What is unsettled science is how this impacts us down the road. The changes could be nuisance, severe nuisance, problematic, catastrophic. At the moment, categories 2 and 3 seem more likely. But we are seeing sea level increases in the SE coast of the US due to impacts on the Gulf Conveyor (slowing), which is thought to be caused by Greenland melting.

If the Conveyor modifies greatly, that could be very problematic to catastrophic for Europe. But that is the unsettled part of the equation. What we do know is we impacted the environment. We are the reason it is warming. We currently are continuing to cause future warming.

The impact, is unknown, but you are quite certain that there will be no important impacts. I'm not certain what you base that on, but you can have your gut feelings all you'd like, and name call whomever you want because, that makes you giggle and feel happy.

 

[TSwizzle]

Hnandwaving and misdirection. Ignoring that the most probable cause of our icreasing climate problems is man made.

Hand waving and misdirection!? Lol. Stevie boy, I have no desire to get into it with religious fanatics. You believe what you do in the same way the christians believe in the resurrection or holy trinity. You’re an end of times, rapture believer. You believe what’s put in front of you and there will be no changing your mind. After all “the science is settled”, right?

Correct. The science is settled. We have changed the climate (past tense).

Hosanna!!

What is unsettled science is how this impacts us down the road. {snip the if buts and maybes.}

The impact, is unknown, but you are quite certain that there will be no important impacts. I'm not certain what you base that on, but you can have your gut feelings all you'd like, and name call whomever you want because, that makes you giggle and feel happy.

The impacts are unknown?! No, the impact is certainly that the climate is going to breakdown!!!! Whatever that means. How many times does the end of times due to climate change need to be recalibrated before you give up?

Any impacts of climate (change?) will not be any worse than what has been experienced before. The predictions coming from the IPCC, Teh Grauniad and the rest of the climate zealots are not based in science. They are based on wonky computer models, not observations.

It really is a rapture like cult.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Hnandwaving and misdirection. Ignoring that the most probable cause of our icreasing climate problems is man made.

Hand waving and misdirection!? Lol. Stevie boy, I have no desire to get into it with religious fanatics. You believe what you do in the same way the christians believe in the resurrection or holy trinity. You’re an end of times, rapture believer. You believe what’s put in front of you and there will be no changing your mind. After all “the science is settled”, right?

Correct. The science is settled. We have changed the climate (past tense).

Hosanna!!

Noticed there wasn't an actual refutation there.

What is unsettled science is how this impacts us down the road. {snip the if buts and maybes.}

The impact, is unknown, but you are quite certain that there will be no important impacts. I'm not certain what you base that on, but you can have your gut feelings all you'd like, and name call whomever you want because, that makes you giggle and feel happy.

The impacts are unknown?!

Yes, the future impacts are unknown. They could be very difficult to adapt to. Time will tell. Doesn't seem wise to push the threshold though, if it isn't necessary.

No, the impact is certainly that the climate is going to breakdown!!!! Whatever that means. How many times does the end of times due to climate change need to be recalibrated before you give up?

Any impacts of climate (change?) will not be any worse than what has been experienced before.

*what has been "experienced before" unreferenced

The predictions coming from the IPCC, Teh Grauniad and the rest of the climate zealots are not based in science. They are based on wonky computer models, not observations.

We can't observe the future. And the impacts of climate change

 

[TSwizzle]

We can't observe the future.

Did I say "we" could? No.

Previous predictions of end of times due to climate change have failed to materialize.

 

[bilby]

Any impacts of climate (change?) will not be any worse than what has been experienced before.

So, much of Europe and North America under three kilometres of ice, for example?

Or a world without any permanent ice, in which palm trees and crocodilians are happily living above the Arctic Circle?

Those are the extremes of 'what has been experienced before'*, and it does seem trivial. now that you mention it.





*Assuming we discount the Hadean Era, when median surface temperatures were in the order of 2,600°C

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We can't observe the future.

Did I say "we" could? No.

Previous predictions of end of times due to climate change have failed to materialize.

Natural climate swings have rendered the Earth pretty much uninhabitable in both directions. Therefore catastrophe is certainly possible.

 

[Swammerdami]

Since the topic of this thread has veered into wilful ignorance and children posting, I don't think it's off-topic to ask about "Let's go Brandon!" Does this not resemble the inane taunting of a fourth-grade old bully? I know there are American "adults" who've adopted this meme, but are any of those "adults" noteworthy? Alex Jones? MTG?

Let's go Brandon!
Yes, the earth’s climate has always been subject to change, sometimes rapid changes at that. It fluctuates naturally. It’s not possible to stop it by putting in a few bike lanes and banning plastic straws. It’s just annoying.

In post #492 I pretended that your view might be based on reason, and provided graphs where you could point to make your point. As is, we really don't know if your "rapid changes" refers to the Great Oxidation Event of the Paleoproterozoic Era . . . or refers to last month's snowfall in Michigan.

But you were unable to use the graphs in #492 to inform us of your concerns? What a pity.

I've reddened comments that may merit clarification. Has anyone suggested that global warming can be reversed by "putting in a few bike lanes and banning plastic straws"? I don't think so.

Frankly, it's hard to tell from your comments whether you are of the 'Climate Change ain't happening' ilk, or of the 'Too late to fix' ilk.

What does all this have to do with "Let's go Brandon!"? I see no attempt by Mr. Swizzle to move beyond fourth-grade thinking on climate change. In #492 I invited clarification but he ignored the opportunity.

 

[steve_bank]

I am not going to post plots. Anyone can look up time plots of ice ages and the causes.

A long standing question was how sub Saharan people migrated across the desert on the way north. Realively recnt finds uncoverd cave paintings f a lush region with animals. The Sahara has green wet periods.

Crocodile fossils in the artic.

When crocodiles roamed the Arctic

The poles were once covered by lakes and forests instead of ice. Anil Ananthaswamy finds out what the world was like in the last great warming

www.newscientist.com

I think the question of how mammoths ended up frozen in ice with undersigned food in the belly and no physical trauma is unanswered.

Does anyone with a high school education not understand the Earth has gone through climate cycles? Dinosaur fossils around Chicago is a clue. In an anthropolyglass the teacher put up a slide of ce ages. Knowing electronics it looked like a dampened oscillation, as if something perturbed the solar system and it was ringing out.

 

[bilby]

Does anyone with a high school education not understand the Earth has gone through climate cycles?

Climate cycles are completely irrelevant to anthropogenic climate change.

"My car stops and starts all the time" is a fact. It's not a relevant fact when trying to determine whether stopping from 160km/h by hitting a solid brick wall will be a harmless non-event.

The rate of change is more important than the fact of change.

And the rate at which global temperature is climbing as a direct result of our burning of fossil fuels is unprecedented outside mass extinction events.

Climate has always changed. Species have always gone extinct. People die all the time.

All true statements. None imply that it won't be a big deal for us, as inhabitants of the climate who do not wish to see our species go extinct, and don't want to die prematurely.

The planet will be just fine without human civilisation. But humans will not. And as a human, that's something I feel is a reasonable thing to be concerned about.

 

[Politesse]

Does anyone with a high school education not understand the Earth has gone through climate cycles? Dinosaur fossils around Chicago is a clue. In an anthropolyglass the teacher put up a slide of ce ages. Knowing electronics it looked like a dampened oscillation, as if something perturbed the solar system and it was ringing out.

Everyone understands that there are climate cycles. But that is not comforting knowledge. At least three of the five mass extinction events in our planet's history have been tied directly to that cycle, and even much smaller shifts have massive effects on ecosystems, some of which our species has already thinly survived. And instead of planning ahead for what's coming, we're still arguing about whether it's happening, and artificially accelerating the process to velocity and severity beyond any paleontological precedent. Noah's actively loading up his boat as the waters, and the idiots on the shore are complaining about the cost to taxpayers.

 

[steve_bank]

I think there is more to it.

Our middle calss is fat, dumb, and happy gogring on pizza and ice cream 24/7. Nothing is going to wake them up.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think there is more to it.

Our middle calss is fat, dumb, and happy gogring on pizza and ice cream 24/7. Nothing is going to wake them up.

What if we had a pizza and ice cream social?

 

[steve_bank]

I am starting to wonder about all this climate change stuff.

I mean really, we have had the 6th coldest April on record.