• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Climate Change(d)?

It isn't just humans who died in the Northwest heat wave.
N.Y. Times said:
Dead mussels and clams coated rocks in the Pacific Northwest, their shells gaping open as if they’d been boiled. Sea stars were baked to death. Sockeye salmon swam sluggishly in an overheated Washington river, prompting wildlife officials to truck them to cooler areas.

The combination of extraordinary heat and drought that hit the Western United States and Canada over the past two weeks has killed hundreds of millions of marine animals and continues to threaten untold species in freshwater, according to a preliminary estimate and interviews with scientists.

“It just feels like one of those postapocalyptic movies,” said Christopher Harley, a marine biologist at the University of British Columbia who studies the effects of climate change on coastal marine ecosystems.

To calculate the death toll, Dr. Harley first looked at how many blue mussels live on a particular shoreline, how much of the area is good habitat for mussels and what fraction of the mussels he observed died. He estimated losses for the mussels alone in the hundreds of millions. Factoring in the other creatures that live in the mussel beds and on the shore — barnacles, hermit crabs and other crustaceans, various worms, tiny sea cucumbers — puts the deaths at easily over a billion, he said.
...
When he walked to the beach last week on one of the hottest days, the smell of decay struck him immediately. The scientist in him was excited, he admitted, to see the real-life effect of something he’d been studying for so long.

But his mood quickly changed.

“The more I walked and the more I saw, the more sobering it all became,” Dr. Harley said. “It just went on and on and on.”

The dead sea stars, usually the most eye-catching creatures in tidal pools, hit him particularly hard. But the obvious mass victims were blue mussels, an ecologically important species that feeds sea stars and sea ducks and creates habitat for other animals.
...
“We are already at critical temperatures three weeks before the most serious heating occurs,” said Don Chapman, a retired fisheries biologist who specialized in salmon and steelhead trout, talking about conditions along the Snake River in Washington, where four dams are the subject of longstanding controversy. “I think we’re headed for disaster.”

The plight of the salmon illustrates a broader danger facing all kinds of species as climate change worsens. Many animals were already struggling to survive because of human activity degrading their habitats. Throw in extreme heat and drought, and their odds of survival diminish.
The article doesn't clarify whether Dr. Harley is a scientist with a PhD, or a "scientist" with a "PhD."

It is true.

From local reporting shallow water marine life has been literally cooking to death.

High temperatures reduce saturated O2 in shallow waters and spawning salmon suffocate.

Salmon is a sensitive issue in the PNW. Part of it is ties to Native American traditions and treaties that guaranteed fishing rights, some depend on it.

Then there is the fishing industry. Salmon is a high quality food. Salmo

It was reported in the 90s the Pacific Coast marine life is migrating north slowly as water gets warmer.
 
It is a very stupid idea, though--hydrogen is tricky to handle and isn't a power source in the first place.
Zeppelins were designed to contain helium, not hydrogen. But the U.S. was the only source of helium in the world and we wouldn't sell. The rest is history.
The first Zeppelin flew in 1900. The fact that there's even enough helium in the world to float an airship wasn't discovered until 1903. Total world production was less than a cubic meter before WW1. The Germans spent the war bombing allied cities from Zeppelins; meanwhile the U.S. was using our own hydrogen blimps to hunt U-boats and thinking about the advantages of switching to helium if we could figure out how to extract enough; we didn't manage to actually build a helium blimp until after the war was over. Of course Zeppelins were designed to contain hydrogen.
 
It is a very stupid idea, though--hydrogen is tricky to handle and isn't a power source in the first place.
Zeppelins were designed to contain helium, not hydrogen. But the U.S. was the only source of helium in the world and we wouldn't sell. The rest is history.
The first Zeppelin flew in 1900. The fact that there's even enough helium in the world to float an airship wasn't discovered until 1903. Total world production was less than a cubic meter before WW1. The Germans spent the war bombing allied cities from Zeppelins; meanwhile the U.S. was using our own hydrogen blimps to hunt U-boats and thinking about the advantages of switching to helium if we could figure out how to extract enough; we didn't manage to actually build a helium blimp until after the war was over. Of course Zeppelins were designed to contain hydrogen.

5 things to know about the Hindenberg

The airship was designed to be filled with helium gas but because of U.S. export restriction on helium, it was filled with hydrogen.

There's a recent NOVA episode on the disaster where new evidence is presented. It's where I first heard about the helium/hydrogen situation.
 
A worse case scenario.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/06/world/climate-gulf-stream-collapse-warning-study-intl/index.html

Whales swim among icebergs near Greenland. Scientists say a critical ocean circulation in the North Atlantic is showing signs of instability, which could have major implications for Earth's climate.
(CNN)A crucial system of currents in the Atlantic Ocean that helps control temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere and has implications for the entire planet's weather systems is showing signs of instability due to human-made climate change, scientists say.

Its collapse would have dire consequences for our weather and life on Earth.
The Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC) -- which the Gulf Stream is a major part of -- helps maintain the energy balance in the Atlantic Ocean. It is often described as a "conveyor belt" that takes warm surface water from the tropics and distributes it to the north Atlantic. The colder, saltier water then sinks and flows south.
 
Certainly there is concern for some larger scale processes on the globe that could reach thresholds of change. The ocean is a very dangerous thing to screw with.

That said, the study's authors do indicate there is no known connection with climate change and the instability they are seeing.
 
It was a concern in the 90s. Cold water at the poles sink creating currents.

Disrupt Atlantic currents and sea life is disrupted , European-North American weather changes.
 
Highest European temperature recorded possibly reached and by nearly a degree from previous record.
article said:
Authorities in Italy say the island of Sicily may have set an all-time heat record for Europe, hitting a temperature of 48.8 degrees Celsius (119.8 degrees Fahrenheit).

The city of Siracusa hit the blistering record on Wednesday afternoon, as an anticyclone -- which Italian media reports are referring to as "Lucifer" -- swept in and continues to moves north up the country. A persistent heat wave around the Mediterranean in Europe and North Africa has contributed to some of the worst fires seen there in years.

The hottest temperature ever recorded in Europe was 48.0°C (118°F) in Athens, Greece in 1977, according to the World Meteorological Organization (WMO).

The record in Italy was confirmed by Sicilian authorities, but needs to be officially verified by the WMO.
So if confirmed, highest temps recorded for Global (North America) and Europe this year.
 
You Northerners complain about a heat wave that lasts a week or two. Be thankful you weren't here in North Central Thailand where unrelenting heat lasted for eleven weeks in 2016. Scattered during this wave were just a few balmy days when the High was only 39°C or so.
Highest European temperature recorded possibly reached and by nearly a degree from previous record.
article said:
Authorities in Italy say the island of Sicily may have set an all-time heat record for Europe, hitting a temperature of 48.8 degrees Celsius (119.8 degrees Fahrenheit)....
So if confirmed, highest temps recorded for Global (North America) and Europe this year.

Yes, and Tunisia just set all-time records.

[sarcasm on] But here in the Land of Smiles, our mellow summer has refuted global warming. Consider the list of days that exceeded 40°C at weather station 484000, the official station closest to my home which has kept records for over seven decades. Only 21 days have been recorded at that station with temperatures above 43°C, and 15 of those 20 were recorded in 2016. Only two 43+°C days (in April 2020) have occurred since 2016. So the Earth's temperatures — at least from my selfish point of view :) — peaked in 2016 and have since been declining!

Here's a chart that makes the Cooling trend even more clear-cut. It shows the ten years with most 40+°C days.
52 2016
42 1980
38 2015
37 2020
34 1963
33 2010
30 1992
27 2019
25 1998
25 1979
...
3 2021​
For contrast, I show the present year where 40°C was exceeded only thrice. (Yes, I know 2021 isn't over yet, but out of 773 days of 40+°C heat recorded at that weather station, all but 20 were in the March-April-May hot season. Eleven of those 20 exceptions were in June-July 2015.)
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2021/08/13/july-2021-hottest-record-month/


If you thought this July was just toasty, you probably didn’t realize you were living through the hottest month in modern history. On Friday, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration declared July 2021 the world’s hottest month in 142 years of records.
“In this case, first place is the worst place to be,” NOAA Administrator Rick Spinrad said in a statement. “This new record adds to the disturbing and disruptive path that climate change has set for the globe.”


Extreme heat plagued the Northern Hemisphere in particular during July. NOAA determined the land-surface temperature in the Northern Hemisphere was 2.77 degrees above average, the largest departure ever observed for the month.
In July, at least five heat domes scorched various regions of the Northern Hemisphere at once. Record highs were set in Turkey, which has recently been hit with devastating fires. Northern Japan broke records, while Olympic athletes sweltered under exceptional warmth. Northern Ireland broke all-time heat records twice in five days.
 
You Northerners complain about a heat wave that lasts a week or two. Be thankful you weren't here in North Central Thailand where unrelenting heat lasted for eleven weeks in 2016. Scattered during this wave were just a few balmy days when the High was only 39°C or so.
I live in a place that doesn't have that temp because I don't want to live in that type of heat. This summer has been above average, but not as bad as last year (in NE Ohio).
 
I listened to a news reort on a University Of Washington revue of all reports on climate cgnage.

The UW professor said tere are a lot of accumulated small oberservations by people.

Bird watchers reporting population changes. Lakes are warming, fishermen reporting fish are going deeper. Here in the area gardeners can now plant species that previously did not do well. Vegetables can be planted earlier.

In the 90s I hear a report birds are arriving earlier in the north ahead of the usual food availability. Trees are moving north.


The report was supported by 200 scientists. A report is coming on specific predicted economic consequences in the NW. Rught now Esatern Wa whet farmers have lost crops due to drought which will affect food prices..

The Columbia River is expected to draw down due to reduced snow pack melts in the spring. That affects agriculture.



There is also reef die offs agenting the bottom of the ocean food chain.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/22/midd...ate-water-shortage-iran-urmia-intl/index.html

Iran running out of water. Protests against water shortages beginning.

Your link also says that Americans use 10 times the amount of water compared to what Jordanians use each day. When will the water wars start in the Middle East? It also mentioned that the desalination plant that Israel uses doesn't run on green energy, so it adds to global warming. We humans sure do know how to fuck up a planet.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/22/midd...ate-water-shortage-iran-urmia-intl/index.html

Iran running out of water. Protests against water shortages beginning.

Your link also says that Americans use 10 times the amount of water compared to what Jordanians use each day. When will the water wars start in the Middle East? It also mentioned that the desalination plant that Israel uses doesn't run on green energy, so it adds to global warming. We humans sure do know how to fuck up a planet.

We have 10x the people and 10x the industry.

We here are running out of waterr. It was known in the 90s that the aquifer under our Midwest agriculture states is drawing down and can never be replenished. California has been running out for decades.

Maybe the Mid East will go back to being tribal nomads traveling between water holes.

Don't forget China and its industrialization as well.

The only thing I see in th

The next Mid East war will be Israel vs everybody else over water. The Jordan River water rights has always been contested.

future is a global reduction in population due to food and water shortages.

The ceaseless economic growth is not sustainable.
 
And don't forget India with its billion scale population.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/22/midd...ate-water-shortage-iran-urmia-intl/index.html

Iran running out of water. Protests against water shortages beginning.

Your link also says that Americans use 10 times the amount of water compared to what Jordanians use each day. When will the water wars start in the Middle East? It also mentioned that the desalination plant that Israel uses doesn't run on green energy, so it adds to global warming. We humans sure do know how to fuck up a planet.

We have 10x the people and 10x the industry.

We here are running out of waterr. It was known in the 90s that the aquifer under our Midwest agriculture states is drawing down and can never be replenished. California has been running out for decades.

Maybe the Mid East will go back to being tribal nomads traveling between water holes.

Don't forget China and its industrialization as well.

The only thing I see in th

The next Mid East war will be Israel vs everybody else over water. The Jordan River water rights has always been contested.

future is a global reduction in population due to food and water shortages.

The ceaseless economic growth is not sustainable.

I don't think Israel will go to war with anyone over water, they'll just desalinate. I can see wars elsewhere due to water, though.
 
Your link also says that Americans use 10 times the amount of water compared to what Jordanians use each day. When will the water wars start in the Middle East? It also mentioned that the desalination plant that Israel uses doesn't run on green energy, so it adds to global warming. We humans sure do know how to fuck up a planet.

We have 10x the people and 10x the industry.
...
Maybe the Mid East will go back to being tribal nomads traveling between water holes.
...
future is a global reduction in population due to food and water shortages.

The ceaseless economic growth is not sustainable.

Nitpick: The U.S. has 32x as many people as Jordan, but only 1x the people per capita, which is the relevant comparison, since Americans use 10x the water per capita.

But I agree that population is already too high: it is the reason for excessive CO2 emissions, depletion of ground-water and other resources, and other environmental damage We need a new tax policy which discourages having children, while not impacting the poor children themselves. (But as you imply, big corporations are dependent on population growth for share-price growth.)
 
https://wapo.st/3sJPvDO


Tennessee’s flash floods underscore the peril climate change poses even in inland areas, where people once thought themselves immune. A warmer atmosphere that holds more water, combined with rapid development and crumbling infrastructure, is turning once-rare disasters into common occurrences. Yet Americans, who often associate global warming with melting glaciers and intense heat, are not prepared for the coming deluge.

I "gifted" this article so anyone interested should be able to read the entire piece. It goes into a lot of detail about how unusual the recent flooding is and how it's related to climate change.
 
Your link also says that Americans use 10 times the amount of water compared to what Jordanians use each day. When will the water wars start in the Middle East? It also mentioned that the desalination plant that Israel uses doesn't run on green energy, so it adds to global warming. We humans sure do know how to fuck up a planet.

We have 10x the people and 10x the industry.
...
Maybe the Mid East will go back to being tribal nomads traveling between water holes.
...
future is a global reduction in population due to food and water shortages.

The ceaseless economic growth is not sustainable.

Nitpick: The U.S. has 32x as many people as Jordan, but only 1x the people per capita, which is the relevant comparison, since Americans use 10x the water per capita.

This handy map may assist here:

IMG_5062.JPG
 
Back
Top Bottom