Climate Change(d)?

[southernhybrid]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/22/midd...ate-water-shortage-iran-urmia-intl/index.html

Iran running out of water. Protests against water shortages beginning.

Your link also says that Americans use 10 times the amount of water compared to what Jordanians use each day. When will the water wars start in the Middle East? It also mentioned that the desalination plant that Israel uses doesn't run on green energy, so it adds to global warming. We humans sure do know how to fuck up a planet.

We have 10x the people and 10x the industry.

We here are running out of waterr. It was known in the 90s that the aquifer under our Midwest agriculture states is drawing down and can never be replenished. California has been running out for decades.

Maybe the Mid East will go back to being tribal nomads traveling between water holes.

Don't forget China and its industrialization as well.

The only thing I see in th

The next Mid East war will be Israel vs everybody else over water. The Jordan River water rights has always been contested.

future is a global reduction in population due to food and water shortages.

The ceaseless economic growth is not sustainable.

No, that's not what I meant. The link said that each individual in Jordon uses about 40 liters per day, while the average American uses 400 liters per day.

n Jordan, one of the most water stressed countries in the world, people have become used to living with very little water.
A study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences showed that Jordanians will have to halve their per capita use of water by the end of the century. Most Jordanians on lower incomes will live on 40 liters a day, for all their needs -- drinking, bathing and washing clothes and dishes, for example. The average American today uses around 10 times that amount.
In many Jordanian homes, water isn't necessarily available every day, said Daniel Rosenfeld, a professor with the Program of Atmospheric Sciences at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

Sure, we have more water, but as you've said, we are already experiencing some water shortages in parts of the country. I doubt enough people are taking the situation seriously. At least not yet.

And yes. It does look as if water wars are on the horizon. I was just pointing out that it's not just Iran that currently has serious problems with water shortages.

We Americans are so spoiled rotten when it comes to making personal sacrifices for the greater good. Will this change or will it lead to more divisiveness? I think we know the answer.

 

[Bomb#20]

Your link also says that Americans use 10 times the amount of water compared to what Jordanians use each day. When will the water wars start in the Middle East? It also mentioned that the desalination plant that Israel uses doesn't run on green energy, so it adds to global warming.

... future is a global reduction in population due to food and water shortages.

The ceaseless economic growth is not sustainable.

... Jordanians will have to halve their per capita use of water by the end of the century. Most Jordanians on lower incomes will live on 40 liters a day, for all their needs -- drinking, bathing and washing clothes and dishes, for example. ...

...
We Americans are so spoiled rotten when it comes to making personal sacrifices for the greater good. Will this change or will it lead to more divisiveness? I think we know the answer.

Or, the Jordanians could reform their economy, increase their productivity, turn their country into another Asian tiger, and then the Israelis will sell them desalinated seawater. Or, the Jordanians could acquire more nuclear reactors from the Russians and South Koreans and desalinate their own seawater. Jordanians make more personal sacrifices than Americans, not for the greater good, but because Americans know better ways to deal with scarcity.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In Akron-Canton, we are fighting with 2016 for hottest August on record. August has a tendency to be not as hot as July, this year, it was hotter than July, which was warmer than average, but not terribly so. Meanwhile August had 11 days of 90 plus degrees... which is greater than what the average summer used to be... not a single month, about 7 days were 10 degrees or higher than average for the high and about 21 days 5 degrees or higher than average for the daily high.

The bothersome thing is I'm pretty certain we didn't hit a record daily temp, it was just an average hot August.

So July 2020 was the hottest July on average, August 2021 might be the hottest August on average (if not the top three).

 

[steve_bank]

That COVID will persist and mutate until a large percentage of us are vaccinated is what I hear from the CDC and local commentary from the University Of Washington.

It will never go away or be 'defeated' any more than the flu and common cold.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That COVID will persist and mutate until a large percentage of us are vaccinated is what I hear from the CDC and local commentary from the University Of Washington.

It will never go away or be 'defeated' any more than the flu and common cold.

Climate Change thread.

 

[SLD]

https://issuesinsights.com/2021/09/07/theres-nothing-the-u-s-can-do-to-affect-global-temperature/

This is a contrarian article, stating that eliminating greenhouse emissions in the US through the Green new deal would have insignificant impact on global warming. Granted, the study was done by the conservative Heritage Foundation, but it claims that of the top 25 emitting cities, 23 are in China. None in the US. Without a full scale effort by the most populous nation in the world, can we achieve anything?

 

[Shadowy Man]

https://issuesinsights.com/2021/09/07/theres-nothing-the-u-s-can-do-to-affect-global-temperature/

This is a contrarian article, stating that eliminating greenhouse emissions in the US through the Green new deal would have insignificant impact on global warming. Granted, the study was done by the conservative Heritage Foundation, but it claims that of the top 25 emitting cities, 23 are in China. None in the US. Without a full scale effort by the most populous nation in the world, can we achieve anything?

Well, we all know the best leading is done from behind.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Every ppm matters! I think there is fear that we are boned without actually removing CO2 from the atmosphere at this point.

 

[bilby]

https://issuesinsights.com/2021/09/07/theres-nothing-the-u-s-can-do-to-affect-global-temperature/

This is a contrarian article, stating that eliminating greenhouse emissions in the US through the Green new deal would have insignificant impact on global warming. Granted, the study was done by the conservative Heritage Foundation, but it claims that of the top 25 emitting cities, 23 are in China. None in the US. Without a full scale effort by the most populous nation in the world, can we achieve anything?

China is China's problem, and they are working on it.

China has 49 nuclear reactors in operation with a capacity of 47.5 GW, third only to the United States and France. And 17 under construction with a capacity of 18.5 GW. 100 more with an anticipated capacity of over 100 GW, are planned by 2035. This will be close to half the world’s nuclear capacity. And they won’t stop there. They should double that again by 2060.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2021/07/27/china-to-build-the-first-small-modular-nuclear-reactor--of-course/

That their problem is larger than America's is neither excuse nor justification for America to ignore her own.

And of course a non trivial fraction of Chinese fossil fuel consumption is in manufacturing goods for export to the USA. So their emissions are, in part, your responsibility.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

https://issuesinsights.com/2021/09/07/theres-nothing-the-u-s-can-do-to-affect-global-temperature/

This is a contrarian article, stating that eliminating greenhouse emissions in the US through the Green new deal would have insignificant impact on global warming. Granted, the study was done by the conservative Heritage Foundation, but it claims that of the top 25 emitting cities, 23 are in China. None in the US. Without a full scale effort by the most populous nation in the world, can we achieve anything?

China is China's problem, and they are working on it.

China has 49 nuclear reactors in operation with a capacity of 47.5 GW, third only to the United States and France. And 17 under construction with a capacity of 18.5 GW. 100 more with an anticipated capacity of over 100 GW, are planned by 2035. This will be close to half the world’s nuclear capacity. And they won’t stop there. They should double that again by 2060.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesc...rst-small-modular-nuclear-reactor--of-course/

That their problem is larger than America's is neither excuse nor justification for America to ignore her own.

And of course a non trivial fraction of Chinese fossil fuel consumption is in manufacturing goods for export to the USA. So their emissions are, in part, your responsibility.

Fuck that, no backsies. We off-shored our emissions so they are no longer related to us. USA! USA!

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Every ppm matters! I think there is fear that we are boned without actually removing CO2 from the atmosphere at this point.

Think? Dude, we're definitely boned.

 

[steve_bank]

Starting with Mao the primary Chinese goal was rapid industrialization. Coal was needed for energy.

They are also the biggest consumer of solar panels, they are not stupid. They have experimented with solar powered transportation systems.

Chinese pollution actualy effects the USA. Te PNW gets smoke from Siberian fires.

There is no isolation frpm pollution. What happens in China and the Amazon as well affects the world.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

https://issuesinsights.com/2021/09/07/theres-nothing-the-u-s-can-do-to-affect-global-temperature/

This is a contrarian article, stating that eliminating greenhouse emissions in the US through the Green new deal would have insignificant impact on global warming. Granted, the study was done by the conservative Heritage Foundation, but it claims that of the top 25 emitting cities, 23 are in China. None in the US. Without a full scale effort by the most populous nation in the world, can we achieve anything?

Dealing with CO2 is not going to happen unless all the world's major producers are behind it. So long as even one player such as China won't cooperate all we do is shift the production to the places where the ecology rules are lax. We are already seeing this with Freon--looks like Chinese factories are producing a lot of it, expect a return of the ozone hole.

Anything less than an enforceable agreement involving all the producers isn't worth the paper it's written on. That's why I have opposed both Kyoto and Paris--they are exercises in shutting up the rabble, not in doing anything meaningful.

 

[barbos]

Well, Australia refused to stop/reduce coal export to China. So much for being green and shit.
Apparently Australia is the largest exporter of coal. You are doomed.

 

[Swammerdami]

https://issuesinsights.com/2021/09/07/theres-nothing-the-u-s-can-do-to-affect-global-temperature/

This is a contrarian article, stating that eliminating greenhouse emissions in the US through the Green new deal would have insignificant impact on global warming. Granted, the study was done by the conservative Heritage Foundation, but it claims that of the top 25 emitting cities, 23 are in China. None in the US. Without a full scale effort by the most populous nation in the world, can we achieve anything?

Of the 250 largest cities in the U.S., only two are in Wisconsin. Should that state be exempt from any climate change mitigation?

Luxembourg contributed a negligible portion of Europe's emissions. Should it be exempt?

China, whatever its problems, is attempting mitigation. For example, it added more wind power capacity in the past year than all the rest of the world added together.

At some point trade sanctions can be imposed to encourage other countries to behave responsibility. Does the U.S. now have the "moral high ground" needed to lead on such sanctions?

 

[steve_bank]

Everybody partakes in the material benefits of large scale global industrialization.

 

[steve_bank]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/20/world/carbon-capture-storage-climate-iceland-intl-cmd/index.html

A solution to climate change, giant fans and air filters.

 

[skepticalbip]

https://issuesinsights.com/2021/09/07/theres-nothing-the-u-s-can-do-to-affect-global-temperature/

This is a contrarian article, stating that eliminating greenhouse emissions in the US through the Green new deal would have insignificant impact on global warming. Granted, the study was done by the conservative Heritage Foundation, but it claims that of the top 25 emitting cities, 23 are in China. None in the US. Without a full scale effort by the most populous nation in the world, can we achieve anything?

Of the 250 largest cities in the U.S., only two are in Wisconsin. Should that state be exempt from any climate change mitigation?

Luxembourg contributed a negligible portion of Europe's emissions. Should it be exempt?

China, whatever its problems, is attempting mitigation. For example, it added more wind power capacity in the past year than all the rest of the world added together.

At some point trade sanctions can be imposed to encourage other countries to behave responsibility. Does the U.S. now have the "moral high ground" needed to lead on such sanctions?

China also built more new coal fired power plants last year than all the rest of the world added together.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

https://issuesinsights.com/2021/09/07/theres-nothing-the-u-s-can-do-to-affect-global-temperature/

This is a contrarian article, stating that eliminating greenhouse emissions in the US through the Green new deal would have insignificant impact on global warming. Granted, the study was done by the conservative Heritage Foundation, but it claims that of the top 25 emitting cities, 23 are in China. None in the US. Without a full scale effort by the most populous nation in the world, can we achieve anything?

Of the 250 largest cities in the U.S., only two are in Wisconsin. Should that state be exempt from any climate change mitigation?

Luxembourg contributed a negligible portion of Europe's emissions. Should it be exempt?

China, whatever its problems, is attempting mitigation. For example, it added more wind power capacity in the past year than all the rest of the world added together.

At some point trade sanctions can be imposed to encourage other countries to behave responsibility. Does the U.S. now have the "moral high ground" needed to lead on such sanctions?

China also added more coal fired power plants than all the rest of the world added together.

China and India are certainly a huge chunk of the problem today and they need to work hard to reduce emissions. The reality of it all, is the Western Hemisphere is still a chunk of the problem today and substantial amount of the excess CO2 in the atmosphere today, from emissions in the 19th and 20th centuries. The warmth today is virtually all the Western Hemisphere's doing. The warming coming up is more on the developing Eastern Hemisphere. We need to reduce the CO2 in the atmosphere, not merely slow the growth.

In the SE US, we are seeing potential impacts to the Gulf Stream which impacts sea level at the coast as well. We could already be past a tipping point and idiots are arguing about who needs to make changes. We all do, else the costs will be high, how high, we simply haven't a clue. They could be a hassle or they could be devastating.

 

[bilby]

https://issuesinsights.com/2021/09/07/theres-nothing-the-u-s-can-do-to-affect-global-temperature/

This is a contrarian article, stating that eliminating greenhouse emissions in the US through the Green new deal would have insignificant impact on global warming. Granted, the study was done by the conservative Heritage Foundation, but it claims that of the top 25 emitting cities, 23 are in China. None in the US. Without a full scale effort by the most populous nation in the world, can we achieve anything?

Of the 250 largest cities in the U.S., only two are in Wisconsin. Should that state be exempt from any climate change mitigation?

Luxembourg contributed a negligible portion of Europe's emissions. Should it be exempt?

China, whatever its problems, is attempting mitigation. For example, it added more wind power capacity in the past year than all the rest of the world added together.

At some point trade sanctions can be imposed to encourage other countries to behave responsibility. Does the U.S. now have the "moral high ground" needed to lead on such sanctions?

China also built more new coal fired power plants last year than all the rest of the world added together.

Also, "capacity" is (when discussing renewable energy) bullshit.

Wind power capacity is beloved of wind power enthusiasts, because it looks seriously fucking impressive, by overstating actual generation threefold (solar power capacity gives a fourfold or greater overstatement), while simultaneously ignoring that almost all generation from these sources is propped up by pricing shenanigans, because it occurs when wholesale prices are minuscule.

1GW of wind capacity gets you maybe 300MW of wind generated electricity, at a time when the wholesale price is low or negative; and gets you fuck-all electricity when wholesale prices are high.

That's the market signalling that your business is utterly pointless. But fortunately governments will either pay direct subsidies to you to do this pointless business, or (more commonly) will hide their incompetence by setting a minimum price at which grid operators must buy your electricity, regardless of how low the actual wholesale price might be at the time.

As the general public and most politicians believe (falsely) that electricity can be stored for later, this idiocy is able to persist. It's effect is to promote highly dispatchable generation (usually gas), while making less dispatchable sources less competitive.

This is all very bad, whether your definition of 'bad' is 'unnecessarily expensive for consumers', or 'promotes the use of fossil fuels', or 'reduces the reliability of electricity supply', or any combination of these three.

And then people present "...added more wind power capacity" as though it were laudable and worthy of praise, rather than the vandalism and environmental destruction that it actually is; And then wonder why I get angry about it.

I feel slightly more respect for those who destroy my quality of life and say "because fuck you, bilby, I wanna get rich and you're in my way", than I do for those who destroy my quality of life and say "because were the good guys, doing this because it's virtuous and nice, and you should thank us for it".

That the latter group sincerely believes that they are doing good, and have zero clue that they are badly mistaken, does not make me feel one iota better.