barbos
Contributor
No, you are talking about permafrost 300 million years ago.
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Climatologist says Arctic Carbon Release could mean “We're Fucked”
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No, you are talking about permafrost 300 million years ago.
We are talking about methane hydrates that are locked in various locations (it's not just cold places--the Deepwater Horizons blast was probably methane hydrates.) If they're all dumped in the atmosphere we fry.
If we see the 15C rise that's the guess of what would happen I find typical summer temperatures here to be lethal at 25% humidity. While in theory people could live underground and simply never venture out during most of the day I don't think the city would still be here.
Grabbing some other cities around the globe, I'm looking at the average highs for July, adding the warming and figuring the humidity will be the same. Shanghai--gone. Los Angeles--gone. San Francisco--just barely within limits. New York--gone. London--just barely within limits. Toronto--gone. Chicago--gone. Moscow--gone. Paris--gone. Harbin, China (known for it's ice festival)--gone.
Singapore--even underground won't protect you. It's AC or die.
In other words, we would be basically forced underground or into domes.
repoman
Contributor
So, if you figure that the Permian may be a worst case scenario of what may happen if all the methane hydrate get released, what factor does the increased age of the sun (250 MY older) do to a comparison. The earth receives about 1360 W/m2 now and was about 1.6% weaker in the Permian or about 22 W/m2 less radiation. So what the CO2 levels were then is not directly related to now. In fact, the CO2 levels were higher because the weathering was slower. It is the silicate-carbonate weathering thermostat that governs very long term climate.
Basically because the sun is more powerful we can less afford to release greenhouse gases than in the past.
One other aspect which is long term scary is that previously when there was a large release of CO2 from volcanism (ignoring methane hydrates) that there was also much mountain building or big amounts of flood basalts that would eventually be chemically weathered and sequester the CO2. That is not what is happening now.
Basically because the sun is more powerful we can less afford to release greenhouse gases than in the past.
One other aspect which is long term scary is that previously when there was a large release of CO2 from volcanism (ignoring methane hydrates) that there was also much mountain building or big amounts of flood basalts that would eventually be chemically weathered and sequester the CO2. That is not what is happening now.
repoman
Contributor
I thought that temps will raise more further away from the equator and that humidity will keep pace fairly well. The temperature gradients will become much weaker and ocean currents will slow and the oceans will lose fresh sources of gas exchange. The top layer of the ocean will be anoxic and have toxic sulfur loving bacteria.
repoman
Contributor
300 MYA was the Carboniferous-Permian transition. Wiki says (no time to get more academic):
So, I would imagine that coming off of the Carboniferous that there was a huge amount of trapped carbon in tundra.
repoman
Contributor
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Lee-commentary-on-Burgess-et-al-PNAS-Permian-Dating.html
good article
I need to read about Carbon Compensation Depth. I tried before and got a bit lost.
good article
I need to read about Carbon Compensation Depth. I tried before and got a bit lost.
barbos
Contributor
But there was no Tundra.
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barbos
Contributor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_methane_release
Science agrees with me:
And there are many hypothesis about P-T extinction and one is ironically suggest massive coal burning
Science agrees with me:
And there are many hypothesis about P-T extinction and one is ironically suggest massive coal burning
dystopian
Veteran Member
Got to love it when someone quotemines in order to be able to say that science agrees with them; only to have us find that the best quote they can come up with literally says "Well uh, we don't really know. It *could* be overblown, I guess, I dunno. Maybe."
barbos
Contributor
Do you have anything else to do besides running around and making meaningless comments to my posts?
repoman
Contributor
Is there any paleochemical (?) proof that massive coal fires occurred during that time. There is chemical proof of sulfur bacteria during the Permian extinction. Coal fires seem very plausible considering that is was the Era following the Carboniferous. But proof would be useful.
Info like this sinking in gives me a sense of (future) loss and paralysis. Is that why some people think it is bullshit, to mentally protect themselves? Talking to you Barbos.
Info like this sinking in gives me a sense of (future) loss and paralysis. Is that why some people think it is bullshit, to mentally protect themselves? Talking to you Barbos.
HelixSpiral
New member
Jesus Christ. Almost all of Florida and most of the current East Coast disappear with a 20-30 m rise.
barbos
Contributor
They found coal ash, so yes.
dystopian
Veteran Member
If you think that it is meaningless to point out the fact that the text you quote as 'proving science agrees with you', *literally says they don't know", then I imagine the only things you consider to be meaningful are posting either arguments in favor of your position, or arguments you think you can easily demolish.
And while I know it must no doubt be very frustrating to deal with someone like me who calls you out on your shit; it is more than a bit presumptuous of you to imagine I'm following you specifically around.
barbos
Contributor
You must be smoking too much that legal pot of yours.
doubtingt
Senior Member
For any remotely sane and rational person, there is not much difference in the level alarm warranted between the near total end of all living organisms versus the "mere" extinction of the human race and most mammals or even just near extinction of humans and all the species we directly depends upon which would entail the total dissolution of civilization with nonstop violence and wars and use of every nuclear weapon and meltdown of every nuclear energy plant, and generally a reality that makes zombie apocalypse movies look like a picnic. What is it about most species dying but a few species of lizards thriving makes you feel like that is nothing to be concerned about?
No, you were promised no such thing. Your ignorance of the ToE and the process of fossilization is what led you to leap to that invalid inference despite nothing that others said implying it.
barbos
Contributor
doubtingt, ignorance is all yours.
Extinction is a normal process, which get accelerated when climate changes.
Species which were sensitive to particular environment died when that environment changed.
Climate change is just that - climate change.
Extinction is a normal process, which get accelerated when climate changes.
Species which were sensitive to particular environment died when that environment changed.
Climate change is just that - climate change.
dystopian
Veteran Member
Actually yes, it *has*. It's not just surface temperatures that have risen; oceans have in fact been warming straight down to the bottom.
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010/20100920_oceanwarming.html
http://www.skepticalscience.com/deep_ocean_warming.html
So you don't care if it wipes us out?
Also, the KT impactor was a natural event. Are you saying we shouldn't do anything if we see another one heading for us?