Cocked and Loaded on Behalf of the Saudis

[barbos]

Sorry, "internationally recognized government" ran away and as "Yanukovich vs. protesters" precedent shows they are no longer recognized.

And that makes it ok that a foreign power (and one openly hostile to US and our allies) establish a sort of Vichy government?

Yes, Yanukovich precedent makes it OK. That was the purpose of my original post to say it was OK.

 

[lpetrich]

Trump’s Bizarre Argument for Defending Saudi Arabia

Trump himself used to frequently rail against American support for the kingdom. He expressed the same disdain for Saudi Arabia as he did for all American allies — they were a bunch of leeches getting rich off American generosity:

Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "Saudi Arabia should fight their own wars, which they won't, or pay us an absolute fortune to protect them and their great wealth-$ trillion!" / Twitter
(Aug 31, 2014)

The largest mystery hovering over Trump’s reversal is not how much the Saudis are paying the United States, but how much they’re paying Trump personally. The Saudis spend extravagant sums of money at his hotels in Washington and New York. Earlier this summer, a Saudi entourage of more than two dozen stayed at Trump’s resort in Scotland. These are just some details that have leaked out piecemeal. The overall scope of Trump’s financial ties to the kingdom are opaque, because Trump, with the support of the conservative movement and Republicans in Congress, refuses to disclose basic financial information.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Meanwhile, VP's Chief of Staff had this to say about 'locked and loaded':

"I think that 'locked and loaded' is a broad term and talks about the realities that we're all far safer and more secure domestically from energy independence," said Vice President Mike Pence's chief of staff Marc Short on Monday morning.

So what Trump meant was completely unrelated to what he actually said.

No surprise there.

This is why all the MAGAts voted for the shithead, because he says what he means!

 

[laughing dog]

Seems to me there is a still a reasonable doubt who is really responsible for this attack. Now, if this attack were a sexual assault, someone who be demanding "innocent until proven guilty". One would think the grounds for starting a possible war in the ME would have to meet the same standard.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Seems to me there is a still a reasonable doubt who is really responsible for this attack. Now, if this attack were a sexual assault, someone who be demanding "innocent until proven guilty". One would think the grounds for starting a possible war in the ME would have to meet the same standard.

If eighteen cruise missiles hit refineries in Houston you'd think we'd be able to figure out where they came from and at least see them visually or with radar before they hit. What's different about SA?

 

[Derec]

Seems to me there is a still a reasonable doubt who is really responsible for this attack.

There really isn't much doubt.

Now, if this attack were a sexual assault, someone who be demanding "innocent until proven guilty". One would think the grounds for starting a possible war in the ME would have to meet the same standard.

Sexual assault cases are often "he said she said" with no corroborating evidence, much less satellite photos. Now, are you done with your derail?

 

[ZiprHead]

Disputing Trump Claims, Japan Says No Evidence Iran Was Behind Saudi Attack

Japanese Defense Minister Taro Kono told reporters Wednesday that he has not seen any intelligence indicating Iran was behind the attacks on Saudi Arabian oil facilities over the weekend, contradicting Saudi and Trump administration claims about the incident.

"We are not aware of any information that points to Iran," Kono said during a press briefing. "We believe the Houthis carried out the attack based on the statement claiming responsibility."

The only evidence the Trump administration has released to substantiate its claim of Iranian responsibility are satellite photos that experts said are not clear enough to assign blame. Ret. Gen. Mark Hertling, a CNN intelligence analyst, said the images "really don't show anything, other than pretty good accuracy on the strike of the oil tanks."

 

[Derec]

This is why all the MAGAts voted for the shithead, because he says what he means!

You anti-war leftists should be donning your MAGA hats now. Even Hillary would have struck Iran when they downed our drone.

 

[ZiprHead]

This is why all the MAGAts voted for the shithead, because he says what he means!

You anti-war leftists should be donning your MAGA hats now. Even Hillary would have struck Iran when they downed our drone.

It would be so nice for the rest of us if you could keep your hard-on for Hillary down to a slight bulge.

 

[laughing dog]

Seems to me there is a still a reasonable doubt who is really responsible for this attack.

There really isn't much doubt.

Apparently there is enough doubt, because our CIC has not definitely blamed Iran nor has he ordered the USA to militarily retaliate.

Now, if this attack were a sexual assault, someone who be demanding "innocent until proven guilty". One would think the grounds for starting a possible war in the ME would have to meet the same standard.

Sexual assault cases are often "he said she said" with no corroborating evidence, much less satellite photos. Now, are you done with your derail?

Please stop using terms you do not understand. I simply stated the standard for potentially starting a war should be at least as high as it is for convicting someone of a crime.

 

[Derec]

Disputing Trump Claims, Japan Says No Evidence Iran Was Behind Saudi Attack

I wonder how much Iran paid Japan for that.
View attachment 23822

"We are not aware of any information that points to Iran," Kono said during a press briefing. "We believe the Houthis carried out the attack based on the statement claiming responsibility."

That is a pretty weak reason to believe Houthis did it, especially when the attack came from the opposite direction.
U.S. official says drone and missile attack on Saudi Arabia was launched from Iran

One of the missiles flew through Kuwait's airspace and the U.S. is working with a number of other countries to analyze data on the attack, which could help make the case against Iran.

Yemen to Khurais and Abaqaiq via Kuwait? Really?

Houthis are taking the fall to protect their liege lords in Tehran. Which means that even if Houthis had "pulled the trigger" Iran would still be ultimately responsible for ordering the "hit".

 

[ZiprHead]

I wonder how much Iran paid Japan for that.
View attachment 23822


That is a pretty weak reason to believe Houthis did it, especially when the attack came from the opposite direction.
U.S. official says drone and missile attack on Saudi Arabia was launched from Iran

One of the missiles flew through Kuwait's airspace and the U.S. is working with a number of other countries to analyze data on the attack, which could help make the case against Iran.

Yemen to Khurais and Abaqaiq via Kuwait? Really?

Houthis are taking the fall to protect their liege lords in Tehran. Which means that even if Houthis had "pulled the trigger" Iran would still be ultimately responsible for ordering the "hit".

Every official in the Bonespurs administration will lie, cheat, and steal for the orange God-On-High. Examples of this come out daily.

 

[Derec]

Apparently there is enough doubt, because our CIC has not definitely blamed Iran nor has he ordered the USA to militarily retaliate.

Oh now the incompetent orangutan occupying the Oval Office is "our CIC"? I chalk his indecisiveness to his general incompetence and his particular ignorance of matters of foreign and military policy.

Please stop using terms you do not understand.

I do understand. Much better than you.

I simply stated the standard for potentially starting a war should be at least as high as it is for convicting someone of a crime.

And there is, especially compared to most "sexual assault" cases that have no evidence other than the accusation itself. There are photos of the damage. There is forensic evidence of the missiles and/or drone remains. There is evidence that at least one of the vehicles flew through Kuwaiti air space, which is inconsistent with Houthis taking the fall for their bosses.

 

[Derec]

Every official in the Bonespurs administration will lie, cheat, and steal for the orange God-On-High. Examples of this come out daily.

Can you lay aside partisan politics? Especially since in this case "Bonespurs" is more on your side than mine. That's probably why he fired Bolton.

 

[ZiprHead]

Every official in the Bonespurs administration will lie, cheat, and steal for the orange God-On-High. Examples of this come out daily.

Can you lay aside partisan politics?

Can you? You don't see the lies coming out of this administration daily?

 

[Derec]

Yes, Yanukovich precedent makes it OK. That was the purpose of my original post to say it was OK.

There is a difference between home-grown protesters and armed insurgents that are the puppets of a foreign power.
By the way, these are the guys you support here:
View attachment 23823
It reads "Allah is great, death to the US, death to Israel, curse the Jews, and victory for Islam".

 

[Derec]

Can you? You don't see the lies coming out of this administration daily?

This is not a thread specifically about the administration, but about an international crisis.

 

[Derec]

I don't believe what the "officials say",

Unless they are Iranian and Houthi officials ...

now that they've had plenty of time to think up a spin that supports their objective of going to war with Iran.

If anything, the Trump administration is too reluctant to use military force against Iran.

And there's never been a revolutionary/terrorist/freedom fighter organisation in history that has been a wholly owned subsidiary of their sponsors.

[citation needed]

So I don't believe your spin, either. It would be just as reasonable, and just as wrong, to say that the Saudis are a wholly owned subsidiary of the Pentagon.

That would be wrong to say. But it is not wrong to say that about Houthis and Hezbollah relative to Iran. They always do their master's bidding.

 

[ZiprHead]

Can you? You don't see the lies coming out of this administration daily?

This is not a thread specifically about the administration, but about an international crisis.

No, it's not. It's a crisis for no one but the Saudis.

 

[laughing dog]

Oh now the incompetent orangutan occupying the Oval Office is "our CIC"?

The POTUS is the CIC. You should familiarize yourself with the US form of government.

I chalk his indecisiveness to his general incompetence and his particular ignorance of matters of foreign and military policy.

Perhaps, although there is no evidence his particular ignorance of matters of foreign and military policy is greater than yours.

I do understand. Much better than you.

There is no evidence in your responses.

And there is, especially compared to most "sexual assault" cases that have no evidence other than the accusation itself. There are photos of the damage. There is forensic evidence of the missiles and/or drone remains.

Which is evidence of damage, not of the who the culprit is.

There is evidence that at least one of the vehicles flew through Kuwaiti air space, which is inconsistent with Houthis taking the fall for their bosses.

It is pretty slim evidence. Since it is possible that some other actor is trying to frame Iran.