College Football Players Union Nixed

[Nice Squirrel]

In a victory for the NCAA, federal labor board blocks effort by Northwestern University football players to unionize.

Thoughts?

 

[Trausti]

They're not employees. It never had a chance.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

They're not employees. It never had a chance.

No, they're just people who work for the organization in a way that provides it with revenue. Nothing employee-like about that.

 

[Trausti]

They're not employees. It never had a chance.

No, they're just people who work for the organization in a way that provides it with revenue. Nothing employee-like about that.

So they get W-2s?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

No, they're just people who work for the organization in a way that provides it with revenue. Nothing employee-like about that.

So they get W-2s?

Wow. If someone had attempted to miss the point deliberately, they couldn't have missed it more than you.

 

[Trausti]

So they get W-2s?

Wow. If someone had attempted to miss the point deliberately, they couldn't have missed it more than you.

But they are not employees. And in any case, they are being compensated. The annual cost of attending Northwestern University is over $60,000 - which the players do not pay for: no loans, no having to work two jobs, etc. If the players chose to waste the educational opportunity provided to them, that's there own choice. Then again, perhaps the players could unionize, give up their cushy all-expense-paid scholarships, and find some way to pay for the expense of attending the university themselves.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Wow. If someone had attempted to miss the point deliberately, they couldn't have missed it more than you.

But they are not employees. And in any case, they are being compensated. The annual cost of attending Northwestern University is over $60,000 - which the players do not pay for: no loans, no having to work two jobs, etc. If the players chose to waste the educational opportunity provided to them, that's there own choice. Then again, perhaps the players could unionize, give up their cushy all-expense-paid scholarships, and find some way to pay for the expense of attending the university themselves.

So, they're not employees of the organization, they're just people who are getting compensated for working for the organization?

You and I seem to have different ideas of what an employee is.

 

[Toni]

Wow. If someone had attempted to miss the point deliberately, they couldn't have missed it more than you.

But they are not employees. And in any case, they are being compensated. The annual cost of attending Northwestern University is over $60,000 - which the players do not pay for: no loans, no having to work two jobs, etc. If the players chose to waste the educational opportunity provided to them, that's there own choice. Then again, perhaps the players could unionize, give up their cushy all-expense-paid scholarships, and find some way to pay for the expense of attending the university themselves.

Sadly, the choice to 'waste' or not waste the academic opportunities provided to them ---so long as they continue to perform on the field and keep their noses relatively clean--is not often as much a choice as universities like to pretend. If a player fails to perform or is seriously injured---well, even those limited opportunities disappear.

Playing football or basketball is a full time job, regardless of what universities like to pretend. Most programs do not allow players to hold other jobs. In fact, there are some pretty specific rules and regulations limiting what kinds of compensation players and their families can receive, in order to maintain the ruse that the players are students first and that athletics are just an extra curricular activity. Only the university coaches and trainers and other university employees directly associated with the programs are allowed to make any money.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The decision came down to the fact that the NLRB does not have jurisdiction over public institutions.

 

[J842P]

I don't understand people's attachment to this ruse (well stated, Toni) that players are students first. I can only conclude that it is a very important part of the NCAA's brand. It's a very romantic notion, I must admit, but so transparently false that I can't understand how people can really fall for it.

That football players and basketball players don't get paid is a gross injustice, especially in the context of multi-million dollar salaries for coaching positions and absurdly high revenues for the NCAA.

Much of academia is shrouded in this man-behind-the-curtain bullshit. The worst part is that there largely no shame. This gets particularly sickening in collegiate sports, though.

 

[dismal]

I don't understand people's attachment to this ruse (well stated, Toni) that players are students first. I can only conclude that it is a very important part of the NCAA's brand. It's a very romantic notion, I must admit, but so transparently false that I can't understand how people can really fall for it.

That football players and basketball players don't get paid is a gross injustice, especially in the context of multi-million dollar salaries for coaching positions and absurdly high revenues for the NCAA.

Much of academia is shrouded in this man-behind-the-curtain bullshit. The worst part is that there largely no shame. This gets particularly sickening in collegiate sports, though.

Some football and basketball players do get paid. But not college football and basketball players. If you want to get paid to pay football of basketball don't go to college.

 

[J842P]

I don't understand people's attachment to this ruse (well stated, Toni) that players are students first. I can only conclude that it is a very important part of the NCAA's brand. It's a very romantic notion, I must admit, but so transparently false that I can't understand how people can really fall for it.

That football players and basketball players don't get paid is a gross injustice, especially in the context of multi-million dollar salaries for coaching positions and absurdly high revenues for the NCAA.

Much of academia is shrouded in this man-behind-the-curtain bullshit. The worst part is that there largely no shame. This gets particularly sickening in collegiate sports, though.

Some football and basketball players do get paid. But not college football and basketball players. If you want to get paid to pay football of basketball don't go to college.

I thought it would be clear from the context that I'm talking about college athletes. That professional athletes get paid does not address the point of contention: that college athletes should be able to get paid.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

They're not employees. It never had a chance.

Interesting. Kind of like how Interns aren't really employees either. Odd how they can do work for a company though.

 

[dismal]

They're not employees. It never had a chance.

Interesting. Kind of like how Interns aren't really employees either. Odd how they can do work for a company though.

Nancy Pelosi says unpaid interns are OK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pFC3LKMIQo

 

[dismal]

Some football and basketball players do get paid. But not college football and basketball players. If you want to get paid to pay football of basketball don't go to college.

I thought it would be clear from the context that I'm talking about college athletes. That professional athletes get paid does not address the point of contention: that college athletes should be able to get paid.

But as you just pointed out: they aren't professional athletes.

People who aren't professional athletes don't get paid to play sports.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wow. If someone had attempted to miss the point deliberately, they couldn't have missed it more than you.

But they are not employees. And in any case, they are being compensated. The annual cost of attending Northwestern University is over $60,000 - which the players do not pay for: no loans, no having to work two jobs, etc.

About 45,000 stadium capacity, seasons tickets are $159 to $299 a season (let's average $200. 7 home games. 100 players on roster.

Assuming sellouts all home games, that averages about $100,000 of gate revenue per player, per game! That means $660,000 of gate revenue per player for the 7 game season. Sure, there are expenses for having a football player, transportation, health care, etc... but of course, I excluded all other revenue generated from the Conference, concessions, television, etc...

In the world I live in, we are allowed about a 3.0 multiplier on our wages for pay. So a person making $33 an hour is billed at $100 to the client. The multiplier for the football player just compared to the gate revenue is 11.0. So even if it cost the university $60k per player to give them a free year of tuition and room and board (it doesn't), they are getting an 11.0 multiplier on that cost.

So I call bullshit to the "free education as reasonable compensation" argument.

- - - Updated - - -

Interesting. Kind of like how Interns aren't really employees either. Odd how they can do work for a company though.

Nancy Pelosi says unpaid interns are OK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pFC3LKMIQo

I may need to clear up some confusion, I'm not Nancy Pelosi and therefore are not beholden to her conservative positions.

 

[dismal]

But they are not employees. And in any case, they are being compensated. The annual cost of attending Northwestern University is over $60,000 - which the players do not pay for: no loans, no having to work two jobs, etc.

About 45,000 stadium capacity, seasons tickets are $159 to $299 a season (let's average $200. 7 home games. 100 players on roster.

Assuming sellouts all home games, that averages about $100,000 of gate revenue per player, per game! That means $660,000 of gate revenue per player for the 7 game season. Sure, there are expenses for having a football player, transportation, health care, etc... but of course, I excluded all other revenue generated from the Conference, concessions, television, etc...

In the world I live in, we are allowed about a 3.0 multiplier on our wages for pay. So a person making $33 an hour is billed at $100 to the client. The multiplier for the football player just compared to the gate revenue is 11.0. So even if it cost the university $60k per player to give them a free year of tuition and room and board (it doesn't), they are getting an 11.0 multiplier on that cost.

So I call bullshit to the "free education as reasonable compensation" argument.

None of those people come to see little Bobby Johnson play football. They mostly come the see Northwestern laundry try to beat Michigan State laundry.

If little Bobby Johnson wishes to dispute this he can form his own league and sell tickets and keep all the money for himself.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

About 45,000 stadium capacity, seasons tickets are $159 to $299 a season (let's average $200. 7 home games. 100 players on roster.

Assuming sellouts all home games, that averages about $100,000 of gate revenue per player, per game! That means $660,000 of gate revenue per player for the 7 game season. Sure, there are expenses for having a football player, transportation, health care, etc... but of course, I excluded all other revenue generated from the Conference, concessions, television, etc...

In the world I live in, we are allowed about a 3.0 multiplier on our wages for pay. So a person making $33 an hour is billed at $100 to the client. The multiplier for the football player just compared to the gate revenue is 11.0. So even if it cost the university $60k per player to give them a free year of tuition and room and board (it doesn't), they are getting an 11.0 multiplier on that cost.

So I call bullshit to the "free education as reasonable compensation" argument.

None of those people come to see little Bobby Johnson play football. They mostly come the see Northwestern laundry try to beat Michigan State laundry.

If little Bobby Johnson wishes to dispute this he can form his own league and sell tickets and keep all the money for himself.

So... like I was saying, assuming sellouts all home games, that averages about $100,000 of gate revenue per player, per game! That means $660,000 of gate revenue per player for the 7 game season. Sure, there are expenses for having a football player, transportation, health care, etc... but of course, I excluded all other revenue generated from the Conference, concessions, television, etc...

That's an 11 to 1 revenue to compensation ratio.

 

[barbos]

Perfect solution would be to shut down the whole thing.
Because it is total lie, they are not students and they are not getting education, but they have to keep an appearance because if you make them professional athletes then they will not be students.

 

[J842P]

I thought it would be clear from the context that I'm talking about college athletes. That professional athletes get paid does not address the point of contention: that college athletes should be able to get paid.

But as you just pointed out: they aren't professional athletes.

People who aren't professional athletes don't get paid to play sports.

So the point of contention is whether or not they should be considered professional athletes.