College Football Players Union Nixed

[dismal]

None of those people come to see little Bobby Johnson play football. They mostly come the see Northwestern laundry try to beat Michigan State laundry.

If little Bobby Johnson wishes to dispute this he can form his own league and sell tickets and keep all the money for himself.

So... like I was saying, assuming sellouts all home games, that averages about $100,000 of gate revenue per player, per game! That means $660,000 of gate revenue per player for the 7 game season. Sure, there are expenses for having a football player, transportation, health care, etc... but of course, I excluded all other revenue generated from the Conference, concessions, television, etc...

That's an 11 to 1 revenue to compensation ratio.

I support your right to ask Northwestern for $660,000 to go play football there.

Good luck.

 

[dismal]

But as you just pointed out: they aren't professional athletes.

People who aren't professional athletes don't get paid to play sports.

So the point of contention is whether or not they should be considered professional athletes.

If they want to be considered professional athletes they should join a professional sports league.

That's kinda how it works. It's necessary for there to be someone willing to pay you to play.

People playing pickup basketball at the Y don't just decide they want to be considered professional athletes.

 

[Toni]

I don't understand people's attachment to this ruse (well stated, Toni) that players are students first. I can only conclude that it is a very important part of the NCAA's brand. It's a very romantic notion, I must admit, but so transparently false that I can't understand how people can really fall for it.

That football players and basketball players don't get paid is a gross injustice, especially in the context of multi-million dollar salaries for coaching positions and absurdly high revenues for the NCAA.

Much of academia is shrouded in this man-behind-the-curtain bullshit. The worst part is that there largely no shame. This gets particularly sickening in collegiate sports, though.

My thought is that players should be students first. In my perfect world, they'd be students first, second and third. THEN they'd be players on teams.

That all athletic programs have an absolute duty to ensure that their student athletes are students first--and get the academic support necessary to help them graduate with a degree that will serve them well in their life after graduation. Let's face it: only a very, very small minority of student athletes go on to play or earn a living from sports post university. And even if they are among those lucky, lucky few who do play or work professionally, they still need a good educational foundation that will serve them when their playing careers end and to help protect them from abuses of those who 'work' for them managing their money and career.

Some schools actually do have players who are (for the most part) students first. More often these days, they are women playing for women's programs. Yes, it's a totally retro idea but it would serve these athletes who risk their health and bodies and minds for the entertainment and profit of others much better.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yes, it's a totally retro idea but it would serve these athletes who risk their health and bodies and minds for the entertainment and profit of others much better.

You know what would help with that? A union.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So... like I was saying, assuming sellouts all home games, that averages about $100,000 of gate revenue per player, per game! That means $660,000 of gate revenue per player for the 7 game season. Sure, there are expenses for having a football player, transportation, health care, etc... but of course, I excluded all other revenue generated from the Conference, concessions, television, etc...

That's an 11 to 1 revenue to compensation ratio.

I support your right to ask Northwestern for $660,000 to go play football there.

Good luck.

You have absolutely no idea how to have a discussion without strawman arguments, do you?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So the point of contention is whether or not they should be considered professional athletes.

If they want to be considered professional athletes they should join a professional sports league.

You seem to be failing to grasp something here. Your defense of a multi-billion dollar industry that generates its income off the work of student athletes is that if athletes want to be paid, they should go into the pros. How does that deal with the multi-billion dollar industry that is making huge sums of money off the effort of unpaid student athletes?

 

[dismal]

Yes, it's a totally retro idea but it would serve these athletes who risk their health and bodies and minds for the entertainment and profit of others much better.

You know what would help with that? A union.

How would a Northwestern players union help? What do you imagine a union would even do?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

You know what would help with that? A union.

How would a Northwestern players union help? What do you imagine a union would even do?

And ... welcome to the beginning of the thread.

 

[dismal]

If they want to be considered professional athletes they should join a professional sports league.

You seem to be failing to grasp something here. Your defense of a multi-billion dollar industry that generates its income off the work of student athletes is that if athletes want to be paid, they should go into the pros. How does that deal with the multi-billion dollar industry that is making huge sums of money off the effort of unpaid student athletes?

Did you miss the post were I noted people go out to see the laundry, not the players?

Take the Northwestern and Michigan State laundry away and how many people do you think would show up to watch those guys play football?

 

[laughing dog]

It is true that technically, college athletes on scholarships are not employees. However, they receive compensation for their efforts and they are expected to follow many rules and regulations of their school concerning conduct and their efforts. So, college athletes with scholarships are functionally employees if not technically employees. It is telling that the ruling is based the non-jurisdiction over public institutions. That implies to me that if a college athletes at a private institution tried to unionize, the NLRB might give a different ruling.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

But as you just pointed out: they aren't professional athletes.

People who aren't professional athletes don't get paid to play sports.

So the point of contention is whether or not they should be considered professional athletes.

Pretty much so. Technically they do everything the pros do and don't get paid for it. The schools can use them for publicity, etc. If they don't finish school after four years of eligibility the schools drop them like a rock. I've seen it and it is ugly.

 

[Toni]

Yes, it's a totally retro idea but it would serve these athletes who risk their health and bodies and minds for the entertainment and profit of others much better.

You know what would help with that? A union.

Oh, I agree completely. Just as I agree that grad students who teach classes and perform research should also be able to join or form a union.

BUT my idea is still that education is the first, second and third most important part of the players' time in the university. If it takes a union to make it happen, then I'm all for it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So the point of contention is whether or not they should be considered professional athletes.

Pretty much so. Technically they do everything the pros do and don't get paid for it. The schools can use them for publicity, etc. If they don't finish school after four years of eligibility the schools drop them like a rock. I've seen it and it is ugly.

Their likeness is also sold to video game companies and jersey companies. So their likeness is generating even more revenue, yet they don't get a dime of that.

Honestly, I have no problem with them only getting a scholarship for the effort. The problem is, billions are being made off of their effort and likeness. They either should get a piece of this or that money shouldn't be made.

 

[Derec]

About 45,000 stadium capacity, seasons tickets are $159 to $299 a season (let's average $200. 7 home games. 100 players on roster.
Assuming sellouts all home games, that averages about $100,000 of gate revenue per player, per game! That means $660,000 of gate revenue per player for the 7 game season. Sure, there are expenses for having a football player, transportation, health care, etc... but of course, I excluded all other revenue generated from the Conference, concessions, television, etc...

In the world I live in, we are allowed about a 3.0 multiplier on our wages for pay. So a person making $33 an hour is billed at $100 to the client. The multiplier for the football player just compared to the gate revenue is 11.0. So even if it cost the university $60k per player to give them a free year of tuition and room and board (it doesn't), they are getting an 11.0 multiplier on that cost.

You are assuming all the seats are filled with season ticket buyers and that they are all paying full price. But a number of seats are reserved for students that can get in for free or heavily discounted.
Also a football program has other student participants (such as cheerleaders, mascots and the band) as well as actual employees like coaches, trainers, medics. Not to mention stadium staff itself - ticket sales/check, janitors/maintenance, security.
Also I think you made a mistake with your math: 45,000*$200/100=$90,000 revenue per player. You don't get to multiply the cost of a season ticket with the number of games in a season.

I may need to clear up some confusion, I'm not Nancy Pelosi and therefore are not beholden to her conservative positions.

You might be the only one who has ever called Nancy Pelosi a conservative.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Pretty much so. Technically they do everything the pros do and don't get paid for it. The schools can use them for publicity, etc. If they don't finish school after four years of eligibility the schools drop them like a rock. I've seen it and it is ugly.

Their likeness is also sold to video game companies and jersey companies. So their likeness is generating even more revenue, yet they don't get a dime of that.

Honestly, I have no problem with them only getting a scholarship for the effort. The problem is, billions are being made off of their effort and likeness. They either should get a piece of this or that money shouldn't be made.

I'm a bit torn, but I can totally see their point.

 

[dismal]

Their likeness is also sold to video game companies and jersey companies. So their likeness is generating even more revenue, yet they don't get a dime of that.

Honestly, I have no problem with them only getting a scholarship for the effort. The problem is, billions are being made off of their effort and likeness. They either should get a piece of this or that money shouldn't be made.

I'm a bit torn, but I can totally see their point.

What does any of that have to do with there being a union of Northwestern football players?

It's against NCAA rules to pay players.

Northwestern isn't going to pay them because they have a union.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I'm a bit torn, but I can totally see their point.

What does any of that have to do with there being a union of Northwestern football players?

It's against NCAA rules to pay players.

Northwestern isn't going to pay them because they have a union.

I'm not sure what part of my statement is unclear. Could you elaborate?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You are assuming...

Alot, yes, thanks for pointing out an obvious fact. What you'll notice is that I indicate as such and also indicate that it is revenue not profit they are generating. Most importantly, it does a good job at indicating a magnitude for the average gate revenue generated per player.

Also I think you made a mistake with your math: 45,000*$200/100=$90,000 revenue per player. You don't get to multiply the cost of a season ticket with the number of games in a season.

Now that indeed is an error! A huge one. So $90k per player per season. Egad that was a mistake.

I may need to clear up some confusion, I'm not Nancy Pelosi and therefore are not beholden to her conservative positions.

You might be the only one who has ever called Nancy Pelosi a conservative.

Not really. Liberals say that all the time.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

cheerleaders, mascots and the band

While these are participants, they do not draw in the crowds.

 

[Derec]

While these are participants, they do not draw in the crowds.

Neither do most of the players, especially bench warmers. So should only the stars on the team get paid?