Colorado club shooter is non-binary, CNN repeatedly misgenders them.

[laughing dog]

No. Strawmen, ridicule, hate, insinuations and slander concocted from whole cloth, and mocking dismissal are not the kind of responses I want.I

I expect the irony of that statement is only lost on you.

 

[TomC]

No. Strawmen, ridicule, hate, insinuations and slander concocted from whole cloth, and mocking dismissal are not the kind of responses I want.I

I expect the irony of that statement is only lost on you.

This thread is utterly soaked in irony. It's a little interesting to note who notices which parts enough to comment on. But only a little, mostly it's as predictable as the sun.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Nobody's changing the definition.

Consider the example I used a while back:

"Somebody broke into the store. They are stealing the apples."

One person. The correct pronoun is "they".

(Yeah, apples are a pretty stupid thing to steal from a store, but there were previous examples with apples.)

"They" is only used when the sex of the person is unknown.

"Someone left their laptop in the meeting room"

"Jenny left her laptop in the meeting room"

And it's not unknown in the case of someone who identifies as non-binary?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, they is also used when the gender is irrelevant.

When someone borrows the shovel, they should return it to the garage.

I don't really understand why there is this fixation on how English addresses gender. There are many, many languages, some of which assign gender to inanimate objects, some of which assign no gender at all.

That's an even better example than mine.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You dont have the right to make me learn a new definition of a word which does not need or should need a definition. If we submit to this, then we submit that this is natural and normal and should be accepted. This is the issue. Another issue is that in the past five years, there has been so many stupid, unneeded words added to the language. Everything has to have a "term".

You are also not the god of language either.

It's not a new definition, just a less common one that has already existed.

 

[laughing dog]

No. Strawmen, ridicule, hate, insinuations and slander concocted from whole cloth, and mocking dismissal are not the kind of responses I want.I

I expect the irony of that statement is only lost on you.

This thread is utterly soaked in irony. It's a little interesting to note who notices which parts enough to comment on. But only a little, mostly it's as predictable as the sun.
Tom

More dripping irony.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I am ignorant? Ignorance is thinking that gender and sex are somehow fluid. Thats ignorance. Arrogance is to change language and definitions to meet your narrow Worldview. The pretentiousness of the "woke" on this board to call the rest of us who dont bend over to your insane, unscientific ideology of nonsense, ignorant is beyond the pale.

Trust me, you wont be fine with it when your child comes home and wants a sex change operation. Then we will see hypocricy in full flower.

People get to decide on their own name. Why do you think that doesn't include the appropriate pronouns?

 

[Metaphor]

I am ignorant? Ignorance is thinking that gender and sex are somehow fluid. Thats ignorance. Arrogance is to change language and definitions to meet your narrow Worldview. The pretentiousness of the "woke" on this board to call the rest of us who dont bend over to your insane, unscientific ideology of nonsense, ignorant is beyond the pale.

Trust me, you wont be fine with it when your child comes home and wants a sex change operation. Then we will see hypocricy in full flower.

People get to decide on their own name. Why do you think that doesn't include the appropriate pronouns?

Actually, there are some names that are forbidden by the State.

But in any case: yes, for many decades we've allowed people to legally change their names, by marriage or by deed poll. But in all those decades, nobody changed their pronouns, and nobody asked, because you don't get to choose your pronouns. In fact, I can think of no language where the target of the pronouns gets to 'choose' their pronouns.

 

[laughing dog]

I am ignorant? Ignorance is thinking that gender and sex are somehow fluid. Thats ignorance. Arrogance is to change language and definitions to meet your narrow Worldview. The pretentiousness of the "woke" on this board to call the rest of us who dont bend over to your insane, unscientific ideology of nonsense, ignorant is beyond the pale.

Trust me, you wont be fine with it when your child comes home and wants a sex change operation. Then we will see hypocricy in full flower.

People get to decide on their own name. Why do you think that doesn't include the appropriate pronouns?

Actually, there are some names that are forbidden by the State.

But in any case: yes, for many decades we've allowed people to legally change their names, by marriage or by deed poll. But in all those decades, nobody changed their pronouns, and nobody asked, because you don't get to choose your pronouns. In fact, I can think of no language where the target of the pronouns gets to 'choose' their pronouns.

Languages do not control what people are allowed or permitted or expected to say. Social conventions and social understandings are the arbiters not language.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You can call yourself whatever you want. You have zero right to make me call you that.

So we can call you Facebookphor?

 

[Metaphor]

I am ignorant? Ignorance is thinking that gender and sex are somehow fluid. Thats ignorance. Arrogance is to change language and definitions to meet your narrow Worldview. The pretentiousness of the "woke" on this board to call the rest of us who dont bend over to your insane, unscientific ideology of nonsense, ignorant is beyond the pale.

Trust me, you wont be fine with it when your child comes home and wants a sex change operation. Then we will see hypocricy in full flower.

People get to decide on their own name. Why do you think that doesn't include the appropriate pronouns?

Actually, there are some names that are forbidden by the State.

But in any case: yes, for many decades we've allowed people to legally change their names, by marriage or by deed poll. But in all those decades, nobody changed their pronouns, and nobody asked, because you don't get to choose your pronouns. In fact, I can think of no language where the target of the pronouns gets to 'choose' their pronouns.

Languages do not control what people are allowed or permitted or expected to say. Social conventions and social understandings are the arbiters not language.

Social conventions and social understandings of course shape language, and language also shapes our social conventions. When I was a teenager I scoffed at the notion of freedom being extinguished just because the word was gone. I know much better now.

Either idea - that pronouns refer to gender identity of human targets, or that human targets of pronouns get to choose their pronouns - are not something that has existed in English language history before about 2015. There is now a small, but very dedicated and powerful alliance pretending that usage is now changed and accepted by the majority of the population.

 

[TomC]

Actually, there are some names that are forbidden by the State.

Seriously?
I'm having trouble imagining how Australia would forbid a name.

Please give me an example. Just in case I ever go there and want to be difficult.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

You can call yourself whatever you want. You have zero right to make me call you that.

So we can call you Facebookphor?

Loren, you should know - as a mod - that mocking a board member by varying their user name is forbidden in the terms of service.

But yes - you can clearly call me Facebookphor. No one is going to arrest you. I'm not royalty and I cannot weild lèse-majesté laws against you.

 

[Metaphor]

Actually, there are some names that are forbidden by the State.

Seriously?
I'm having trouble imagining how Australia would forbid a name.

Please give me an example. Just in case I ever go there and want to be difficult.
Tom

60 Banned baby names

These are the baby names you won't be able to give your newborn baby, so best to scrap them off your list right now!

www.mamamag.com.au

In Australia, the Registrar can refuse to register a birth name in circumstances including any of the following:

• It is obscene or offensive
• It cannot be established by repute or usage because it’s too long or contains symbols (such as an exclamation mark).
• It is displayed in the form of initials or acronyms
• It creates confusion in the community
• It contains an official title or rank recognised in Australia
• It may be considered reasonably likely to insult, humiliate, offend or intimidate a person or group.

Banned baby names​

• @ ( no joke! China had to ban people using this symbol for a baby name)
• Admiral
• Anzac
• Australia
• Baron
• Bishop
• Brigadier
• Brother
• Cadet
• Captain
• Chief
• Christ
• Commodore
• Constable
• Corporal
• Dame
• Duke
• Emperor
• Father
• General
• God
• Honour
• Ikea
• Judge
• Justice
• King
• Lady
• Lieutenant
• Lord
• Madam
• Majesty
• Major
• Messiah
• Minister
• Mister
• Nutella
• Officer
• Premier
• President
• Prime Minister
• Prince
• Princess
• Queen
• Saint
• Satan
• Seaman
• Sergeant
• Sir
• Sister

Other banned names include:​

• Bonghead
• Chow Tow
• Cyanide
• D**head
• G-Bang
• Ikea
• iMac
• Maryjuana
• Medicare
• Monkey
• Ned Kelly
• Panties
• Ranga
• Robocop
• Scrotum
• Shthead
• Smelly
• Snort
• Thong
• Virgin

This appears to be specifically naming your baby; I don't know if the deed poll name changes are the same, but I suspect so.

Of course it is not just Australia. I recall a case in America where a child's proposed middle name was AryanNation, but the State kyboshed it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

他们、她们。Both of them are "ta men" in Putonghua Chinese. The tense on the first character are different. The first is masculine and the second is feminine. The former is used if "they" is used for both. 它们 is also "tamen‘ which means objects and not people. Very basic Chinese language, one of the first things learned by anyone who wants to learn and speak the language. Chinese Putonghua, 普通话 isnt that hard except for the written language, it is difficult because there is just vast amount of characters to learn. My wife is Chinese. I know some but have given up trying to read most of it years ago.

I've never tried to learn to read it, I gave up on learning to speak it because of the tones.

This language is the most common language on Earth. Speaking it isnt that hard, reading it is much more challenging There is no definition in the singular "tamen" in Chinese. There is 他 (male) 她 (female) or 它 (an object) where 门 (men) is the possessive.

Disagree--it's the most common primary language, but it's second to English in the most speakers.

So now, you have to teach the Earth and all the languages that this means a singular person. This is beyond English. You need to teach about 1.6 Billion Chinese/East Asian speakers that this can mean someone in the singular, and there is no Chinese character to denote this whatsoever. You people need to go to Beijing, Taipei, Hong Kong and Tokyo (where the Japanese written language is one third Chinese characters and even not, normal male and female definitions of "they") and teach 1.6 billion speakers of Asian languages that "they" means someone who does not know their sex even if they drop their pants, and create a character to denote this.

So, it is not so much to teach the average American that "they" means a single person who denies their biological sex, you have to teach the whole human race. Trust me, most everyone else will scratch their heads and then laugh their asses off at this foolishness.

Unknown gender cases exist, I find it hard to believe that any language lacks a means of indicating that.

My general experience with Chinese is that words are almost totally lacking in gender in the first place. You add gender when you want it, omitting the gender produces the ungendered form.

 

[TomC]

Actually, there are some names that are forbidden by the State.

Seriously?
I'm having trouble imagining how Australia would forbid a name.

Please give me an example. Just in case I ever go there and want to be difficult.
Tom

60 Banned baby names

These are the baby names you won't be able to give your newborn baby, so best to scrap them off your list right now!

www.mamamag.com.au

In Australia, the Registrar can refuse to register a birth name in circumstances including any of the following:

• It is obscene or offensive
• It cannot be established by repute or usage because it’s too long or contains symbols (such as an exclamation mark).
• It is displayed in the form of initials or acronyms
• It creates confusion in the community
• It contains an official title or rank recognised in Australia
• It may be considered reasonably likely to insult, humiliate, offend or intimidate a person or group.

Banned baby names​

• @ ( no joke! China had to ban people using this symbol for a baby name)
• Admiral
• Anzac
• Australia
• Baron
• Bishop
• Brigadier
• Brother
• Cadet
• Captain
• Chief
• Christ
• Commodore
• Constable
• Corporal
• Dame
• Duke
• Emperor
• Father
• General
• God
• Honour
• Ikea
• Judge
• Justice
• King
• Lady
• Lieutenant
• Lord
• Madam
• Majesty
• Major
• Messiah
• Minister
• Mister
• Nutella
• Officer
• Premier
• President
• Prime Minister
• Prince
• Princess
• Queen
• Saint
• Satan
• Seaman
• Sergeant
• Sir
• Sister

Other banned names include:​

• Bonghead
• Chow Tow
• Cyanide
• D**head
• G-Bang
• Ikea
• iMac
• Maryjuana
• Medicare
• Monkey
• Ned Kelly
• Panties
• Ranga
• Robocop
• Scrotum
• Shthead
• Smelly
• Snort
• Thong
• Virgin

This appears to be specifically naming your baby; I don't know if the deed poll name changes are the same, but I suspect so.

Of course it is not just Australia. I recall a case in America where a child's proposed middle name was AryanNation, but the State kyboshed it.

"Refuse to register a birth name" isn't the same as "forbidden name", but it's still totally a hoot.

I live in a state that registered a kid as "Adolf Hitler Jones*"!
It was the grocery store refusing to decorate a birthday cake with "Happy Birthday Adolf Hitler" that got attention.

Wheeee! Gotta love this country and our bizarre society.

If I ever go to Australia, I think I'll rename myself "Seaman", because double endre and stuff. If you knew my last name you'd realize how funny that is.
Tom

* Not his real last name. I don't remember it, nor do I care, and especially I would not post it on the internet. Kid's got enough problems with parents who named him Adolf Hitler.

 

[Toni]

Off the top of my head, I am aware that England and Germany have some restrictions on baby names, mostly to prevent harm to the child or that are or include misleading titles.

I wish that the US put in place more rules and regulations concerning the names of children. Someone I went to school with became a social worker. She recounted some instances when a family appeared in family court and the judge summarily changed the baby’s name from a word that the family was too illiterate to comprehend their error or too cowed by what they thought was a hospital’s right to name a child Baby Girl or Female ( Fe mal ee. -a full 3 syllables) or their inability to correct a typo: vA child was called Brain instead of Brian, as intended by the parents who were unaware they could simply correct the birth certificate. Unfortunately there are people who foisted the names of Star Wars characters upon their kids.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You can call yourself whatever you want. You have zero right to make me call you that.

So we can call you Facebookphor?

Loren, you should know - as a mod - that mocking a board member by varying their user name is forbidden in the terms of service.

But yes - you can clearly call me Facebookphor. No one is going to arrest you. I'm not royalty and I cannot weild lèse-majesté laws against you.

It wasn't meant to be mocking, just related but incorrect.

 

[laughing dog]

Actually, there are some names that are forbidden by the State.

Seriously?
I'm having trouble imagining how Australia would forbid a name.

Many countries have forbidden names. They simply do not permit the name to be put on the birth certificate or register.

 

[TomC]

Actually, there are some names that are forbidden by the State.

Seriously?
I'm having trouble imagining how Australia would forbid a name.

Many countries have forbidden names. They simply do not permit the name to be put on the birth certificate or register.

The laughing emogi was the most sarcastic response I could make.
On IIDB
Tom