Swammerdami
Squadron Leader
Fifty-five years ago the U.S. was involved in a major war that attracted vehement opposition on college campuses. It might be interesting to contrast U.S. reactions then with U.S. reactions to student protests today.
Unfortunately, I am not qualified to do it. 55 years ago I was an immature 19 year-old child and, although I lived in Berkeley and caught a whiff or two of tear gas, I was too preoccupied with other matters to read newspapers or form useful memories. And today I'm also preoccupied. Google presents me with headlines but I don't click unless it's about interesting science. IIDB is my major source of news!
Will someone else help contrast today's reactions to student protests with those of 55 years ago? Ignore the students' behavior: Children will be children.
I thought this was an admirable concession by Tom.
It was the My Lai massacre and the company officers who perpetrated it that became the "go-to" example of war crime during the Vietnam war. (But focus on the hundreds killed by Lt. Calley et al was in part to deflect attention from the hundreds of thousands killed by the malfeasance of Johnson and Kissinger et al.)
There are rumors that Israeli soldiers have committed atrocities. Any efforts by government to investigate such charges?
"Muslim ... Muslim." This seems to pit one religion against another and is NOT helpful. Is the My Lai massacre best described as committed "by Christians"? And unlike the "spin" placed on the conflict in Gaza by Netanyahu's defenders, I do NOT hear protestors blaming Israel's war crimes "on the Jews."
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Thirty-five years ago, all around the world dozens of countries changed their systems from (relatively benign) totalitarianism to democracy. It was a breath-taking change in world politics and some proclaimed "the End of History"! A few years later came the Arab Spring and optimism increased further. But . . .
Even now, Benjamin Netanyahu faces several criminal charges and is probably grateful for the distraction of a war. This sort of personal connection is one of the hallmarks of Fascism.
Unfortunately, I am not qualified to do it. 55 years ago I was an immature 19 year-old child and, although I lived in Berkeley and caught a whiff or two of tear gas, I was too preoccupied with other matters to read newspapers or form useful memories. And today I'm also preoccupied. Google presents me with headlines but I don't click unless it's about interesting science. IIDB is my major source of news!
Will someone else help contrast today's reactions to student protests with those of 55 years ago? Ignore the students' behavior: Children will be children.
Under the same circumstances, absolutely....used Gazans as human shields. I call that a war crime.
If Israel has done it would you call it a war crime, too? I'm not saying you wouldn't. I am asking.
Under only slightly different circumstances, maybe and maybe not.
I thought this was an admirable concession by Tom.
But with the history, I don't think it's even possible to have the same circumstances.
Tom
Here is how that comes across: when people I don't like do it, it's a war crime, but when people I like do it, well, those are different circumstances. What I expect instead: here are my a priori, objective rules for when it's a war crime and when it's not, completely independent of having looked up circumstances of when which people did what and based completely reasonably on logic.
It was the My Lai massacre and the company officers who perpetrated it that became the "go-to" example of war crime during the Vietnam war. (But focus on the hundreds killed by Lt. Calley et al was in part to deflect attention from the hundreds of thousands killed by the malfeasance of Johnson and Kissinger et al.)
There are rumors that Israeli soldiers have committed atrocities. Any efforts by government to investigate such charges?
I have.How about you respond to the part about war crimes perps if that’s what you really want to discuss:
Over and over.
People keep hand waving away war crimes when they are committed by Muslims.
Where is the international outrage concerning Muslim war crimes?
Tom
"Muslim ... Muslim." This seems to pit one religion against another and is NOT helpful. Is the My Lai massacre best described as committed "by Christians"? And unlike the "spin" placed on the conflict in Gaza by Netanyahu's defenders, I do NOT hear protestors blaming Israel's war crimes "on the Jews."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Thirty-five years ago, all around the world dozens of countries changed their systems from (relatively benign) totalitarianism to democracy. It was a breath-taking change in world politics and some proclaimed "the End of History"! A few years later came the Arab Spring and optimism increased further. But . . .
Prattle about "the End of History" is just a sad memory now. Countries around the world are turning to fascism. Democracy is dying.Hunter S. Thompson said:. . . now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
Even now, Benjamin Netanyahu faces several criminal charges and is probably grateful for the distraction of a war. This sort of personal connection is one of the hallmarks of Fascism.