Columbia University is colluding with the far-right in its attack on students

[laughing dog]

If the death toll defines right and wrong then Russia is in the right because they're losing more people.

Your premise is an idiotic straw man.

Not at all. You claimed the death toll was an indication, I explicitly said it was not. I was just showing you the results of your position.

I never said it was an indication of right and wrong.

Then why did you bring it up 60 messages ago?

For two reasons:
1) juxtaposing the virulence in decrying Hamas’s terrible but relatively low volume in murdering and raping Israeli civilians with the calm defense of the IDF’s much higher volume of killing and immiserising Gazan civilians, and
2) point out that there are mo good guys here, just absolutely horrible and terrible.

At some point, the ends do not justify the means. While I think it is obvious Hamas passed the point long ago, I also think that Israel has passed that point.

You used the UN data which is known to be bogus. They're not counting the stuff that Hamas lets sit.

It is not known to be bogus. You’ve asserted it,

You conflate two issues into one: 1) aid into Gaza, and 2) distribution of aid once it enters Gaza. I don’t dispute the 2nd. I am explicitly refering to the documented evidence in 2)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The numbers were for civilians + combatants, he was not specifying civilian.

His post immediately prior to the ones I quoted said:

Stop derailing the discussion - killing civilians is neither a sporting event nor warfare.

My bold.

That's explicitly specifying civilian.

Laughing Dog was saying "civilian", but the numbers are for combatants + civilians.

Yeah, I know, Hamas pretends they're all civilians but there's no need to fall for their lies.

 

[laughing dog]

The numbers were for civilians + combatants, he was not specifying civilian.

His post immediately prior to the ones I quoted said:

Stop derailing the discussion - killing civilians is neither a sporting event nor warfare.

My bold.

That's explicitly specifying civilian.

Laughing Dog was saying "civilian", but the numbers are for combatants + civilians.

I mentioned no numbers. Are you seriously disputing that the IDF doesn’t kill many more civilians than Hamas?

 

[bilby]

The numbers were for civilians + combatants, he was not specifying civilian.

His post immediately prior to the ones I quoted said:

Stop derailing the discussion - killing civilians is neither a sporting event nor warfare.

My bold.

That's explicitly specifying civilian.

Laughing Dog was saying "civilian", but the numbers are for combatants + civilians.

Yeah, I know, Hamas pretends they're all civilians but there's no need to fall for their lies.

What fucking numbers?

Are you reading the same thread as the rest of us?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The numbers were for civilians + combatants, he was not specifying civilian.

His post immediately prior to the ones I quoted said:

Stop derailing the discussion - killing civilians is neither a sporting event nor warfare.

My bold.

That's explicitly specifying civilian.

Laughing Dog was saying "civilian", but the numbers are for combatants + civilians.

Aren't we at the point that even at 1 civilian per 10 militants, aren't there thousands more dead Palestinian civilians? Of course, at that point, you'll return to 'they aren't innocent'.

Looking at the assassination of the Hezbollah and Hamas figures, how much damage did that have on those organizations, verses the endless attacks in Gaza which have had substantial collateral damage in both lives and infrastructure?

 

[laughing dog]

The numbers were for civilians + combatants, he was not specifying civilian.

His post immediately prior to the ones I quoted said:

Stop derailing the discussion - killing civilians is neither a sporting event nor warfare.

My bold.

That's explicitly specifying civilian.

Laughing Dog was saying "civilian", but the numbers are for combatants + civilians.

Aren't we at the point that even at 1 civilian per 10 militants, aren't there thousands more dead Palestinian civilians? Of course, at that point, you'll return to 'they aren't innocent'.

Looking at the assassination of the Hezbollah and Hamas figures, how much damage did that have on those organizations, verses the endless attacks in Gaza which have had substantial collateral damage in both lives and infrastructure?

Exactly on both counts. It is remarkable that the gov’t of Israel could take its time to take out its targets with so little collateral damage elsewhere but not in Gaza.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

At some point, the ends do not justify the means. While I think it is obvious Hamas passed the point long ago, I also think that Israel has passed that point.

So a sufficiently vile organization should be allowed to prevail no matter what.

You used the UN data which is known to be bogus. They're not counting the stuff that Hamas lets sit.

It is not known to be bogus. You’ve asserted it,

You conflate two issues into one: 1) aid into Gaza, and 2) distribution of aid once it enters Gaza. I don’t dispute the 2nd. I am explicitly refering to the documented evidence in 2)

Look at the COGAT data. They're counting what actually goes into Gaza.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Looking at the assassination of the Hezbollah and Hamas figures, how much damage did that have on those organizations, verses the endless attacks in Gaza which have had substantial collateral damage in both lives and infrastructure?

Assassinations of those in charge is good, but it's nowhere near enough. They'll be replaced.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Exactly on both counts. It is remarkable that the gov’t of Israel could take its time to take out its targets with so little collateral damage elsewhere but not in Gaza.

Such strikes are a trickle. Israel killing a few commanders per year would not remotely be enough to stop a repeat of 10/7.

 

[laughing dog]

Exactly on both counts. It is remarkable that the gov’t of Israel could take its time to take out its targets with so little collateral damage elsewhere but not in Gaza.

Such strikes are a trickle. Israel killing a few commanders per year would not remotely be enough to stop a repeat of 10/7.

Interesting you focus on an assumed frequency of such strikes instead of the obvious point about their nature.

Accepting your assumption about the frequency, neither will the destruction of Gaza and the killing of 1000s of civilians. So what is your point?

 

[laughing dog]

At some point, the ends do not justify the means. While I think it is obvious Hamas passed the point long ago, I also think that Israel has passed that point.

So a sufficiently vile organization should be allowed to prevail no matter what.

The IDF is prevailing. So are you saying the IDF is a vile organization? Or are you seriously claiming that Gaza has to be destroyed and thousands upon thousands of civilians killed to keep Israel from total annihilation from a terrorist group that doesn’t have the means to achieve that goal?

You used the UN data which is known to be bogus. They're not counting the stuff that Hamas lets sit.

It is not known to be bogus. You’ve asserted it,

You conflate two issues into one: 1) aid into Gaza, and 2) distribution of aid once it enters Gaza. I don’t dispute the 2nd. I am explicitly refering to the documented evidence in 2)

Look at the COGAT data. They're counting what actually goes into Gaza.

So, you have no evidence.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Looking at the assassination of the Hezbollah and Hamas figures, how much damage did that have on those organizations, verses the endless attacks in Gaza which have had substantial collateral damage in both lives and infrastructure?

Assassinations of those in charge is good, but it's nowhere near enough. They'll be replaced.

BSOD

 

[ZiprHead]

Looking at the assassination of the Hezbollah and Hamas figures, how much damage did that have on those organizations, verses the endless attacks in Gaza which have had substantial collateral damage in both lives and infrastructure?

Assassinations of those in charge is good, but it's nowhere near enough. They'll be replaced.

The Israelis are creating shit tons of replacements.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Looking at the assassination of the Hezbollah and Hamas figures, how much damage did that have on those organizations, verses the endless attacks in Gaza which have had substantial collateral damage in both lives and infrastructure?

Assassinations of those in charge is good, but it's nowhere near enough. They'll be replaced.

The Israelis are creating shit tons of replacements.

Wife beating.

You're presuming that Israel creates the problem. No, Iranian money creates the problem. Throw enough money at it, you'll get terrorists.

 

[ZiprHead]

Looking at the assassination of the Hezbollah and Hamas figures, how much damage did that have on those organizations, verses the endless attacks in Gaza which have had substantial collateral damage in both lives and infrastructure?

Assassinations of those in charge is good, but it's nowhere near enough. They'll be replaced.

The Israelis are creating shit tons of replacements.

Wife beating.

You're presuming that Israel creates the problem. No, Iranian money creates the problem. Throw enough money at it, you'll get terrorists.

No. Iranian money funds the problem. Israel creates the problem that Iran funds.

 

[TomC]

No. Iranian money funds the problem. Israel creates the problem that Iran funds.

If you look at the history, especially starting at the mid-40s, what you will see is a long string of violent attacks on the Jewish people by their Muslim neighbors.

I think that they've largely given up on making peace with their neighbors other than at gunpoint. That's all that has worked for decades.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

If you look at the history, especially starting at the mid-40s, what you will see is a long string of violent attacks on the Jewish people by their Muslim neighbors.

Foreigners come into your property uninvited and start stealing land from the residents tends to piss people off.

 

[TomC]

If you look at the history, especially starting at the mid-40s, what you will see is a long string of violent attacks on the Jewish people by their Muslim neighbors.

Foreigners come into your property uninvited and start stealing land from the residents tends to piss people off.

When are you talking about?
Do you realize that Jewish people bought the land that became Israel from Muslims?

The Muslim military attacks after that changed the landscape a great deal. Once the Israeli army had successfully defended themselves from violent attacks they refused to give up their gains.
Tom

 

[Arctish]

No. Iranian money funds the problem. Israel creates the problem that Iran funds.

If you look at the history, especially starting at the mid-40s, what you will see is a long string of violent attacks on the Jewish people by their Muslim neighbors.

I think that they've largely given up on making peace with their neighbors other than at gunpoint. That's all that has worked for decades.
Tom

If you go back a mere 10 more years you will find a string of violent attacks carried out by Zionist terrorists in the Irgun and Lehi. If you look at who was leading those organizations you will find men who became Prime Ministers of Israel.

If you look at more than just the cherry picked parts of history that support your claim, you will find centuries of peaceful coexistence between Palestinians of various religious faiths before European Zionists stirred shit up with their colonizing and declarations they would create a State just for Jews in a place where Jews had been a rather small minority since the Crusades.

The Zionists who founded and ran the Jewish Agency for Palestine planned the expulsion of Palestinians all along. They devised and implemented Plan Dalet, and timed it to be carried out before they declared the State of Israel to exist, in order to maximize the territory they seized and to drive out or kill the civilian population they didn't want. Zionists have been lying about their "peaceful" intentions since the 1920s, and people who never bothered to look deeper than the surface have been repeating those lies for the past 100 years.

 

[Arctish]

If you look at the history, especially starting at the mid-40s, what you will see is a long string of violent attacks on the Jewish people by their Muslim neighbors.

Foreigners come into your property uninvited and start stealing land from the residents tends to piss people off.

When are you talking about?
Do you realize that Jewish people bought the land that became Israel from Muslims?

No, they didn't.

The Zionists in the Jewish Agency for Palestine realized very quickly that they couldn't possibly afford to pay for all the land they needed for a State. They abandoned that plan and pivoted to persuading the British to "relocate" Palestinians to other parts of the Middle East, and when that fell through they began to plan for the use of force.

The Muslim military attacks after that changed the landscape a great deal. Once the Israeli army had successfully defended themselves from violent attacks they refused to give up their gains.
Tom

You mean the attacks that happened after terrorists murdered a lot of civilians and made hundreds of thousands of people refugees, and declared a terrorist-run religious ethno-state that bordered on those Muslim states?

Who wants a State run by terrorists right next door? What government wouldn't send a military force to try to defeat the terrorists and restore the former government with which they'd had treaties and peaceful relations?