Common Christian/Muslim argument: I have an answer and you don't!

[Underseer]

It's almost as if you know your argument about "weak hypothesis vs no hypothesis" is a bad argument.

Hint: it's an  argument from ignorance fallacy.

If you think "I don't know" is embarrassing to admit, then you haven't adequately considered the humiliation of pretending to know something you don't actually know. Avoiding "I don't know" is not a valid excuse to make things up. That was what the space goat was supposed to illustrate to you, but here you are reinforcing the argument of the space goat even after I made it.

You can't say the logic becomes valid when applied to one conclusion, but magically becomes bad logic when applied to a different conclusion. That is a logical fallacy called special pleading.

If the logic of the argument is valid for god, then it is also valid for the space goat. If it is invalid for the space goat, it is also invalid for god. You can't have it both ways.

 

[skepticalbip]

^ ^

The problem with a weak hypothesis (like the god hypothesis) is not the hypothesis itself but in people unquestionably accepting it as true. The proper purpose of a hypothesis is to test it for validity, not to believe it. If the hypothesis fails the testing then it must be amended and re-tested or dropped to be replaced by a different hypothesis which is then tested.

So far, the testable claims made in the god hypothesis have failed.

I'm still in the process of testing the great space goat fart hypothesis.

 

[Random Person]

It's almost as if you know your argument about "weak hypothesis vs no hypothesis" is a bad argument.

Hint: it's an  argument from ignorance fallacy.

If you think "I don't know" is embarrassing to admit, then you haven't adequately considered the humiliation of pretending to know something you don't actually know. Avoiding "I don't know" is not a valid excuse to make things up. That was what the space goat was supposed to illustrate to you, but here you are reinforcing the argument of the space goat even after I made it.

You can't say the logic becomes valid when applied to one conclusion, but magically becomes bad logic when applied to a different conclusion. That is a logical fallacy called special pleading.

If the logic of the argument is valid for god, then it is also valid for the space goat. If it is invalid for the space goat, it is also invalid for god. You can't have it both ways.

One of the most common fallacies seems to be comparing one thing we know isn't true and nobody believes to be true (Space Goat Creator God) to another thing that some people do believe that is more difficult to argue against. It's an argument that is a bit intellectually lazy and a little bit dishonest.

 

[Random Person]

^ ^

The problem with a weak hypothesis (like the god hypothesis) is not the hypothesis itself but in people unquestionably accepting it as true. The proper purpose of a hypothesis is to test it for validity, not to believe it. If the hypothesis fails the testing then it must be amended and re-tested or dropped to be replaced by a different hypothesis which is then tested.

So far, the testable claims made in the god hypothesis have failed.

I'm still in the process of testing the great space goat fart hypothesis.

We agree what a hypothesis is. I'm calling that a win.

I don't know what the god hypothesis would be since there doesn't seem to be agreement on what a god is.

The creator hypothesis has some evidence. I don't know what any alternative hypotheses are.

 

[Keith&Co.]

one of the most common fallacies seems to be comparing one thing we know isn't true and nobody believes to be true (Space Goat Creator God) to another thing that some people do believe that is more difficult to argue against. It's an argument that is a bit intellectually lazy and a little bit dishonest.

It's neither lazy nor dishonest.
It's not comparing Space Goat to Jehovah. It's plugging the Space Goat into the argument given in support of Jehovah (or any other deity), showing that the argument works equally well to support total bullshit. Or, more to the point, is not that compelling an argument for Jehovah (or whoever), once one actually analyzes the way the argument is constructed.

You're just really fixated on the Space Goat...

 

[Random Person]

one of the most common fallacies seems to be comparing one thing we know isn't true and nobody believes to be true (Space Goat Creator God) to another thing that some people do believe that is more difficult to argue against. It's an argument that is a bit intellectually lazy and a little bit dishonest.

It's neither lazy nor dishonest.
It's not comparing Space Goat to Jehovah. It's plugging the Space Goat into the argument given in support of Jehovah (or any other deity), showing that the argument works equally well to support total bullshit. Or, more to the point, is not that compelling an argument for Jehovah (or whoever), once one actually analyzes the way the argument is constructed.

You're just really fixated on the Space Goat...

My point is that it doesn't work equally as well.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

one of the most common fallacies seems to be comparing one thing we know isn't true and nobody believes to be true (Space Goat Creator God) to another thing that some people do believe that is more difficult to argue against. It's an argument that is a bit intellectually lazy and a little bit dishonest.

It's neither lazy nor dishonest.
It's not comparing Space Goat to Jehovah. It's plugging the Space Goat into the argument given in support of Jehovah (or any other deity), showing that the argument works equally well to support total bullshit. Or, more to the point, is not that compelling an argument for Jehovah (or whoever), once one actually analyzes the way the argument is constructed.

You're just really fixated on the Space Goat...

My point is that it doesn't work equally as well.

You're just saying that because you don't want to deal with the implications of how you'd need to live a moral life if you thought you'd have to answer to Space Goat at the end of it.

 

[Random Person]

My point is that it doesn't work equally as well.

You're just saying that because you don't want to deal with the implications of how you'd need to live a moral life if you thought you'd have to answer to Space Goat at the end of it.

Nope. You are saying it.

 

[Keith&Co.]

My point is that it doesn't work equally as well.

Then you should demonstrate that. How does the evidence for a creator exclude a farting space goat?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

My point is that it doesn't work equally as well.

You're just saying that because you don't want to deal with the implications of how you'd need to live a moral life if you thought you'd have to answer to Space Goat at the end of it.

Nope. You are saying it.

Space Goat is unimpressed by your tepid rationalizations.

 

[Random Person]

My point is that it doesn't work equally as well.

Then you should demonstrate that. How does the evidence for a creator exclude a farting space goat?

You are assuming a creator?

 

[Keith&Co.]

My point is that it doesn't work equally as well.

Then you should demonstrate that. How does the evidence for a creator exclude a farting space goat?

You are assuming a creator?

Nope. The goat came up in response to a claim. The goat fits the argument as well as anything already worshiped by three or more people. If you think the argument works better for some candidates than it does for a giant farting space goat named Metzger, you should show the difference.

Or, what was it, take a hickey.

 

[Random Person]

You are assuming a creator?

Nope. The goat came up in response to a claim. The goat fits the argument as well as anything already worshiped by three or more people. If you think the argument works better for some candidates than it does for a giant farting space goat named Metzger, you should show the difference.

Or, what was it, take a hickey.

A goat can't create the universe because it is a physical being. Physical beings didn't exist prior to the universe existing.

A Creator God exists outside of space, time and matter.

The goat can be dismissed while a creator God may be difficult to dismiss.

 

[Keith&Co.]

A goat can't create the universe because it is a physical being. Physical beings didn't exist prior to the universe existing.

A Creator God exists outside of space, time and matter.

How do you know ANY of this to be a fact? How much experience do you have observing the powers and qualities of giant space goats?

What tells you that your experience with terrestrial goats applies to space goats?





So, a bunch of bald assertions. Asserting a space goat is the same argument, with equal support.

The goat can be dismissed, while a creator God may be difficult to dismiss

You offer no evidence to support your bald assertions, so they are REMARKABLY easy to dismiss.

 

[skepticalbip]

You are assuming a creator?

Nope. The goat came up in response to a claim. The goat fits the argument as well as anything already worshiped by three or more people. If you think the argument works better for some candidates than it does for a giant farting space goat named Metzger, you should show the difference.

Or, what was it, take a hickey.

A goat can't create the universe because it is a physical being. Physical beings didn't exist prior to the universe existing.

A Creator God exists outside of space, time and matter.

The goat can be dismissed while a creator God may be difficult to dismiss.

That isn't the great space goat who's fart created the universe. The Great Space Goat who's fart created the universe exists outside of space, time, and matter.

 

[Random Person]

A goat can't create the universe because it is a physical being. Physical beings didn't exist prior to the universe existing.

A Creator God exists outside of space, time and matter.

How do you know ANY of this to be a fact? How much experience do you have observing the powers and qualities of giant space goats?

What tells you that your experience with terrestrial goats applies to space goats?





So, a bunch of bald assertions. Asserting a space goat is the same argument, with equal support.

The goat can be dismissed, while a creator God may be difficult to dismiss

You offer no evidence to support your bald assertions, so they are REMARKABLY easy to dismiss.

Your scientific discernment is -0-.

- - - Updated - - -

A goat can't create the universe because it is a physical being. Physical beings didn't exist prior to the universe existing.

A Creator God exists outside of space, time and matter.

The goat can be dismissed while a creator God may be difficult to dismiss.

That isn't the great space goat who's fart created the universe. The Great Space Goat exists outside of space, time, and matter.

Then what you are describing is a god, not a goat.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Your scientific discernment is -0-. .

where am I wrong? Did you offer scientific evidence, there, somewhere, and I missed it?

- - - Updated - - -

Then what you are describing is a god, not a goat.

What's the difference? What part of which definition of 'a god' says it cannot be a farting space goat?

 

[skepticalbip]

A goat can't create the universe because it is a physical being. Physical beings didn't exist prior to the universe existing.

A Creator God exists outside of space, time and matter.

The goat can be dismissed while a creator God may be difficult to dismiss.

That isn't the great space goat who's fart created the universe. The Great Space Goat exists outside of space, time, and matter.

Then what you are describing is a god, not a goat.

Not at all. Gods are fictional creations. I am describing the real existing Great Space Goat.

 

[Keith&Co.]

That isn't the great space goat who's fart created the universe. The Great Space Goat who's fart created the universe exists outside of space, time, and matter.

Well, no. The Great Space Goat is subject to time, space and meaning.
But his farts are not.

Meztger stood at Time T0, facing T1. This put his nethers up against the very beginning of time. His fart then pushed backwards across the numberline JUST far enough to create the universe JUST as time started.

Everything else follows from there...

 

[skepticalbip]

That isn't the great space goat who's fart created the universe. The Great Space Goat who's fart created the universe exists outside of space, time, and matter.

Well, no. The Great Space Goat is subject to time, space and meaning.
But his farts are not.

Meztger stood at Time T0, facing T1. This put his nethers up against the very beginning of time. His fart then pushed backwards across the numberline JUST far enough to create the universe JUST as time started.

Everything else follows from there...

Wow... Thanks. It is good to hear truth. I was almost enticed into a cult there.