Consciousness

[George S]

The feeling of consciousness is what it is like to be a biological robot.

What would be different if this were not the case?

The conscious is a passenger on a bus it is not driving; the spokesman for the body/mind responsible for explaining why the body/mind did what it did.

Amygdala Hijack
[YOUTUBE]4gOdxoYn960[/YOUTUBE]

 

[George S]

You can talk about the experience of consciousness.

That is as far as you can go.

That is as much as we understand.

And the experience is mainly a bunch of self talk.

The above is the 10th post in this thread.

Has untermensche said anything different since then?

 

[DBT]

That's essentially it. With the addition of his claim for autonomy of consciousness.

 

[untermensche]

An example of denial in the form of pretending that I am the one making these claims when it is the research, the experiments and the researchers that is telling the story. Not to mention the physics of acquiring, processing and representing information in conscious form must necessarily entail an order of events and time scales. However, you appear to have no idea, nor do you want to accept the reality of cognition. You prefer your own special 'reality'

You claim the research is valid.

It is the research of the timing of human guessing.

And you hold it up as if it means something.

 

[untermensche]

You can talk about the experience of consciousness.

That is as far as you can go.

That is as much as we understand.

And the experience is mainly a bunch of self talk.

The above is the 10th post in this thread.

Has untermensche said anything different since then?

Has my point been overturned by anything?

NO.

There is no physiological understanding of consciousness.

No living researcher knows what it is in physiological terms.

There are a lot of stories but they are based on studies that look at the timing of human guessing not consciousness.

 

[fromderinside]

In addition to timing, you are aware that we posted evidence of arousal, of attending, of perceiving, of awareness, and of predicting response, right? We've even posted evidence of visual and social theater, but you just wave and say "I think the research is bunk". no evidence supprting the bunk, no evidence supporting your position that "nothing is known about consciousness", nothing in the way of evidence at all from you.

You're fired!

 

[untermensche]

In addition to timing, you are aware that we posted evidence of arousal, of attending, of perceiving, of awareness, and of predicting response, right? We've even posted evidence of visual and social theater, but you just wave and say "I think the research is bunk". no evidence supprting the bunk, no evidence supporting your position that "nothing is known about consciousness", nothing in the way of evidence at all from you.

You're fired!

You have not provided a physiological explanation for any of that.

You have stories about parts of the brain that do marvelous things.

But we only know about the marvelous things when a person with a brain tells us what they experience.

You were never hired!

 

[fromderinside]

1. You have not provided a physiological explanation for any of that.

2. You have stories about parts of the brain that do marvelous things.

3. But we only know about the marvelous things when a person with a brain tells us what they experience.

1. provide evidence I haven't provided Physiological explanation of arousal, attrending, perceiving, awareness, and pedicting response. Take your time. Be thorough. I shan't answer until I see posts of mine with article references and summaries.

2. Yes I have related what scientists have found. They are marvelous aren't they.

3. Not only do we have evidence of the underlying processes we have provided medical and scientific studies where persons with brains tell us what they experience when we stimulate them here and there from those parts that do marvelous things.

You, on the other hand have just gone ......... chirp ......... chirp........... chirp ........ sigh ........ Sad.

 

[Kharakov]

Someone tricked all of you. You don't have brains.

 

[DBT]

The above is the 10th post in this thread.

Has untermensche said anything different since then?

Has my point been overturned by anything?

NO.

There is no physiological understanding of consciousness.

No living researcher knows what it is in physiological terms.

There are a lot of stories but they are based on studies that look at the timing of human guessing not consciousness.

You never had a point to overturn. You simply make claims. Claims that were refuted over and over with evidence and research.....which of course you summarily dismiss because it does not happen to support your claims.

 

[DBT]

An example of denial in the form of pretending that I am the one making these claims when it is the research, the experiments and the researchers that is telling the story. Not to mention the physics of acquiring, processing and representing information in conscious form must necessarily entail an order of events and time scales. However, you appear to have no idea, nor do you want to accept the reality of cognition. You prefer your own special 'reality'

You claim the research is valid.

It is the research of the timing of human guessing.

And you hold it up as if it means something.

But the timing is not guessing. The button press is objective, the prior activity predicting which button will be pressed is objective. All of which is supported by physics, ie, there must be a sequence of physical events, sensory input, processing, memory integration, etc, prior to conscious experience. There is no escaping this. Which renders your claims null and void.

 

[fromderinside]

Been there done that.

Good night and good luck.

 

[untermensche]

You claim the research is valid.

It is the research of the timing of human guessing.

And you hold it up as if it means something.

But the timing is not guessing. The button press is objective, the prior activity predicting which button will be pressed is objective. All of which is supported by physics, ie, there must be a sequence of physical events, sensory input, processing, memory integration, etc, prior to conscious experience. There is no escaping this. Which renders your claims null and void.

Nothing objective about a button push to GUESS when you THINK you are starting some kind of mental activity.

As far as allegedly guessing which arm will be moved that is not guessing. That is knowing AFTER the mental decision has been made.

And all these experiments can be shot to hell if you tell the subject they are allowed to randomly disobey and do nothing, but pretend until the last second they will comply.

That is the will at work. Telling people to fuck off, I'm not a robot.

 

[untermensche]

Been there done that.

Good night and good luck.

Been there.

Done nothing.

Pleasant dreams.

 

[untermensche]

1. You have not provided a physiological explanation for any of that.

2. You have stories about parts of the brain that do marvelous things.

3. But we only know about the marvelous things when a person with a brain tells us what they experience.

1. provide evidence I haven't provided Physiological explanation of arousal, attrending, perceiving, awareness, and pedicting response. Take your time. Be thorough. I shan't answer until I see posts of mine with article references and summaries.

You want me to prove a negative?

Are you that stupid? Prove you're not.

All you have to do is tell me what human arousal that is experienced means in terms of specific physiology.

You can explain how it is done on the cellular level or perhaps the level of the protein. Or perhaps in terms of electricity.

But since you know we will all know how some experience is explained in physiological, not anatomical, terms.

 

[Kharakov]

Been there. Done nothing.

It looks like untermensche's idea is that human consciousness is simply a data state that does not impact the evolution of the system that creates the data state.

When we look at "The System", we can see that it creates predictive models of possible future data states, and selects some over others (I know how to push your buttons). What this means is that the data states generated by the system are those that are selected based on what the system predicts about the future data states, which means the future data states are in a causal feedback loop to the system.

In other words, everyone's right if they're not left behind.

 

[fromderinside]

1. provide evidence I haven't provided Physiological explanation of arousal, attrending, perceiving, awareness, and pedicting response. Take your time. Be thorough. I shan't answer until I see posts of mine with article references and summaries.

All you have to do is tell me what human arousal that is experienced means in terms of specific physiology.

Already done that. Morruzzi et Magoun 1948.

You can explain how it is done on the cellular level or perhaps the level of the protein. Or perhaps in terms of electricity.

Not necessary already done at the physiological level which is the summation of those impacts. Arousal actually has a defined source loci in the pons.

But since you know we will all know how some experience is explained in physiological, not anatomical, terms.

non sequitur?

What I'm getting is you believe you can ask for evidence, ignore it, then ask for it again. Forum space wasting.

 

[George S]

Nothing objective about a button push to GUESS when you THINK you are starting some kind of mental activity.

As far as allegedly guessing which arm will be moved that is not guessing. That is knowing AFTER the mental decision has been made.

And all these experiments can be shot to hell if you tell the subject they are allowed to randomly disobey and do nothing, but pretend until the last second they will comply.

That is the will at work. Telling people to fuck off, I'm not a robot.

You have made assertions like these with no evidence. You respond to point-by-point rebuttals with reassertion of your opinion.

So I will not answer your points, but make a counter-assertion of my own: The feeling of consciousness is what it is like to be a biological robot.

I have, in fact, presented two videos supporting this position. I would refer you to Daniel Dennett's Elbow Room.

 

[Kharakov]

... I'm not a robot.

Prove it. I'll buy you a coffee.

 

[untermensche]

All you have to do is tell me what human arousal that is experienced means in terms of specific physiology.

Already done that. Morruzzi et Magoun 1948.

That's an explanation in anatomical terms.

This response can elicited by stimulating the medical bulbar reticular formation, pontile and midbrain tegmentum, and dorsal hypothalamus and subthalamus.....

Nothing but anatomy. No physiology. External artificial electrical stimulation does not count as physiology.

You don't seem to even comprehend what a physiological explanation is.

You fail!

As I already pointed out.