Consciousness

[DBT]

You clearly have a little problem with the concept of "feedback".

Consciousness is based on information feed. For example, where do you think the information for sensory experience comes from, sight, sound, touch, smell? From consciousness? Come on!

Once generated consciousness is a thing separate from the brain, like the display on the computer screen is separate from all the calculations that went into creating it.

Where do get this horse shit from. It's not even logical. Your ''Once generated consciousness is a thing separate from the brain'' is absurd because no brain activity can be said to be separate from the brain and its activity. It's sort of like claiming once your arm is moving the movement is separate from your moving arm.

As an entity unto itself, and a thing generated by energy in some way, there is no reason to think it can't have a feedback mechanism back onto the brain.

Oh, sure, sure, you just repeat this mantra a thousand times, that consciousness is an entity unto itself, over and over....never mind the fact of how consciousness is formed and expressed is a matter of information feed and connectivity.

A momentary failure of connectivity being expressed consciously as the inability to remember a name, where you left your keys, etc, only to recall once the underlying connection is established....so it's hardly ''an entity unto itself'' In fact, not at all an independent entity.

At the risk of throwing you a bone that you'll probably chew on for the next 300 pages in an already repetitive thread, there may well be feedback loops between conscious brain activity and unconscious brain activity, which feeds information to conscious brain activity....but this is nothing whatsoever like your claim - ''Once generated consciousness is a thing separate from the brain'' - which not only has no evidence to support it but is patently absurd for the many reasons already given.

Just face the fact. You have no case to argue. But, whatever, hang onto your belief if it brings you comfort.

 

[fromderinside]

...and your citations are......chirp ............. chirp........... sigh....... thought so.

What do you specifically need a reference to understand?

The claim is that the product of some activity is not the name thing as the activity.

It is a philosophical point.

What is the basis of the philosophical point but that the one possessing the brain witnesses it. No real need for the point if the philosophy accepts the notion that the brain operates in a determined world and recognizes that information is caused by use of energy.

 

[untermensche]

What do you specifically need a reference to understand?

The claim is that the product of some activity is not the name thing as the activity.

It is a philosophical point.

What is the basis of the philosophical point

Philosophers would clearly see it.

but that the one possessing the brain witnesses it.

The point has nothing to do with the possessor of a brain and is not about brains specifically.

The point is about activity that produces something.

The thing the activity produces is not the activity. It is a product. A thing created. A new thing.

 

[fromderinside]

What is the basis of the philosophical point

Philosophers would clearly see it.

No they wouldn't they're all long dead.

but that the one possessing the brain witnesses it.

Indeed.

The point has nothing to do with the possessor of a brain and is not about brains specifically.

The point is about activity that produces something.

The thing the activity produces is not the activity. It is a product. A thing created. A new thing. A thing called information.

Fixed it!

 

[untermensche]

Information is what the brain uses to create consciousness.

Consciousness is alive.

A working brain gives it life.

 

[DBT]

Consciousness is the experience that a brain is generating.

 

[untermensche]

Consciousness is the experience that a brain is generating.

Consciousness is that which experiences.

To experience requires two things. That which can experience and the things it can experience.

Consciousness is that which can experience.

Consciousness experiences memories and sensations and thoughts and emotions.

It does not experience itself.

 

[fromderinside]

Information is what the brain uses to create consciousness.

Consciousness is alive.

A working brain gives it life.

Hold it bud. Physical input isn't information, it is detected and processed energy. Information is the output of energy access and processing.

Whoa Nelly. If consciousness is alive explain how that is so in physical terms like accessing energy, processing energy.

Actually life is given by successful access and processing of energy by the entity. Without energy it is a rock, sand, or bit of protoplasm.

The brain is the primary system for processing energy to produce specific information relevant to actions increasing and sustaining fitness.

As for to what you refer, consciousness, that is affect processed by the brain primarily used in social commerce.

As a biological system the human conserves energy. Doing something in two arenas is not efficient. Therefore it is the brain that produces actionable information rather than there being two separate entities doing so. It is easy to explain since inputs and outputs through their respective mechanisms are both involved in these transactions.

 

[Treedbear]

Consciousness is the experience that a brain is generating.

Consciousness is that which experiences.

To experience requires two things. That which can experience and the things it can experience.

Consciousness is that which can experience.

Consciousness experiences memories and sensations and thoughts and emotions.

It does not experience itself.

The experiencer is the thing that is conscious. At least in principle. Consciousness is the state of being conscious, not the thing that is conscious. Like the state of a glass that is full. It is in a state of being full. It has fullness. Or fitness. Someone is fit. They are in a state of fitness. But fitness is not a thing in itself. Consciousness is a noun, which can be a name of a thing or a quality of a thing.

Consciousness is the state or quality of awareness, or, of being aware of an external object or something within oneself.

 

[untermensche]

....Consciousness is the state of being conscious, not the thing that is conscious....

You call it the "experiencer", because you have no word for it, I call it consciousness.

That which has the ability to be conscious of something.

That which has a state of consciousness.

 

[George S]

....Consciousness is the state of being conscious, not the thing that is conscious....

You call it the "experiencer", because you have no word for it, I call it consciousness.

That which has the ability to be conscious of something.

That which has a state of consciousness.

And of course the state of consciousness is a state of the brain. You can be knocked unconscious.

The brain has the ability to be conscious (or not).

The experiencer is the brain.

 

[untermensche]

You call it the "experiencer", because you have no word for it, I call it consciousness.

That which has the ability to be conscious of something.

That which has a state of consciousness.

And of course the state of consciousness is a state of the brain. You can be knocked unconscious.

The brain has the ability to be conscious (or not).

The experiencer is the brain.

The product of some activity is not the same thing as the activity.

The brain is just the activity.

Consciousness is the product.

 

[DBT]

....Consciousness is the state of being conscious, not the thing that is conscious....

You call it the "experiencer", because you have no word for it, I call it consciousness.

That which has the ability to be conscious of something.

That which has a state of consciousness.

Consciousness refers to a collection of features, not all of which are active at any given time. Nor is self awareness always present.....absorbed in a task, a book, work or whatever without being aware of self.

 

[DBT]

And of course the state of consciousness is a state of the brain. You can be knocked unconscious.

The brain has the ability to be conscious (or not).

The experiencer is the brain.

The product of some activity is not the same thing as the activity.

The brain is just the activity.

Consciousness is the product.

An aspect of brain activity that's inseparable from the brain and its activity, hence not an autonomous entity as you erroneously claim.

 

[untermensche]

The product of some activity is not the same thing as the activity.

The brain is just the activity.

Consciousness is the product.

An aspect of brain activity that's inseparable from the brain and its activity, hence not an autonomous entity as you erroneously claim.

That is how consciousness is able to make the brain move the arm.

It is connected to it.

 

[untermensche]

You call it the "experiencer", because you have no word for it, I call it consciousness.

That which has the ability to be conscious of something.

That which has a state of consciousness.

And of course the state of consciousness is a state of the brain. You can be knocked unconscious.

The brain has the ability to be conscious (or not).

The experiencer is the brain.

The brain has the ability to create a consciousness.

The consciousness has the ability to be conscious of things.

 

[Treedbear]

....Consciousness is the state of being conscious, not the thing that is conscious....

You call it the "experiencer", because you have no word for it, I call it consciousness.

That which has the ability to be conscious of something.

That which has a state of consciousness.

I am conscious, therefore I have consciousness (much of the time). I am my self (as opposed to someone else's self). It is the self that is conscious. Consciousness having consciousness is confusing the issue because it makes it seem more ambiguous than it needs to be.

 

[fromderinside]

I'll submit that consciousness is more than awareness, several of which may be active at any time. I'll grant that being conscious is a state within being alive. However being alive requires conversion of caloric product to potential energy that may be employed anywhere within the being which is alive. So the conscious person has information from more than the brain at it's disposal, yet that feature is housed in the brain of the being.

Rather than a being referencing this and that aspect of which it is aware evolution has resulted in a being that can put many forms of awareness at the disposal of being among the awareness generated provided to the brain through a network of processes, chemical, mechanical, sense and motor derived, in the brain. What we experience as consciousness is the result of sub vocal, visual, auditory, gustatory, somatic position - sensation, and olfactory, information synchronized into a collage of an experience information. We believe we are experiencing what the world and our body are engaged even though any variety of experiences may arise form the same set of information.

It is this likelihood of differing impressions given the same information that gives lie to the notion we are in control if these experiences. They are just different readout of the same brain state resulting from different presumptions in the calculus leading to any particular attending in the awareness state.

 

[untermensche]

You call it the "experiencer", because you have no word for it, I call it consciousness.

That which has the ability to be conscious of something.

That which has a state of consciousness.

I am conscious, therefore I have consciousness (much of the time). I am my self (as opposed to someone else's self). It is the self that is conscious. Consciousness having consciousness is confusing the issue because it makes it seem more ambiguous than it needs to be.

Consciousness and "the self" are the same thing.

I do think people can more readily see that "the self" is not the same thing as the brain.

 

[Treedbear]

I am conscious, therefore I have consciousness (much of the time). I am my self (as opposed to someone else's self). It is the self that is conscious. Consciousness having consciousness is confusing the issue because it makes it seem more ambiguous than it needs to be.

Consciousness and "the self" are the same thing.

I do think people can more readily see that "the self" is not the same thing as the brain.

So apparently you do see my point, which is that the self is the thing that is conscious. Then why would you call the self "consciousness" when you can see that it has a perfectly good name already? I'll agree "that 'the self' is not the same thing as the brain." The brain creates the self which has consciousness. To have consciousness is to be in a state of being conscious. Simple and straightforward.