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Consciousness

untermensche said:
DBT said:
Well isn't that freaking hilarious given that brains have evolved the means with which to acquire and process information in order to be able to respond to conditions within the environment, selecting options from a set of realizable alternatives based on a given set of criteria (making decisions). In the past, the benefits associated with going out to hunt bison as opposed to staying in the cave knapping flint today, it being wet and cold and there is still plenty of Jerky and nuts in the larder . In our time and place, our own decisions, the benefits of one model of car over another, etc

And it is glaringly obvious that you ignore all research and just assert your own beliefs.
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There is biological evolution and there is cultural evolution, the evolution of ideas.

You have no evidence the brain apart from the consciousness understands ideas.

You merely impart everything your consciousness knows and does to the brain. For no good reason. It is insanity. The brain creates the consciousness and is the slave of consciousness and most likely has no way to know what the consciousness is experiencing.

That which creates the sensation of an idea does not necessarily experience the idea.

You are like the primitive who imparts all the powers of their gods onto the stars.

You impart all the powers of the consciousness onto the dumb mechanical brain that creates it and is it's slave.
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You are the one asserting 'dumb brain' while ignoring all evidence to the contrary, the brain and its neural architecture probably being the most complex structure in the universe.

You just say this stuff because it suits your needs, not because you have backing. You have not shown a single item that supports your claims, just repeating ''look I can lift my are at will'' ''look I can lift my are at will'' ''look I can lift my are at will'' ''look I can lift my are at will'' ''look I can lift my are at will'' - all the while ignoring the mechanisms and means by which this is achieved....being the function and work of a brain.
 
There is no evidence to the contrary.

In study after study the only way to know what is happening to the consciousness requires reporting from one.
 
Just study after study showing that specific brain activity predicted subjective report.

Why do you keep springing 'for certain'? You have no evidence that subjective testimony is conscious activity.

Please explain that away with some more of your very likely disconnected 'arm to move' self reporting.

From your testimony it is just as likely that another mind is telling your arm to move, or that when your arm doesn't move it's somebody impeding your will.

Sheesh.
 
fromderinside said:
Just study after study showing that specific brain activity predicted subjective report.
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Only when subjects are FORCED to make a binary choice.

If the subject can opt out and refuse to cooperate at any time they choose that can never be predicted
 
untermensche said:
There is no evidence to the contrary.
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That is your claim. You are wrong but refuse to not only admit that you are wrong, but acknowledge it to yourself.

untermensche said:
In study after study the only way to know what is happening to the consciousness requires reporting from one.
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We know about response time from reflex tests, reflex actions (nerve loops) etc, which are taken into account when there is neural activity prior to reflex time and response. All of this is taken into account. Researchers are not the fools you make them out to be.

Plus you still ignore the physics of cognition, inputs must precede transmission, must precede propagation, must precede processing, etc....which makes your claim of autonomy of consciousness an absurd claim.
 
DBT said:
That is your claim. You are wrong but refuse to not only admit that you are wrong, but acknowledge it to yourself.

untermensche said:
In study after study the only way to know what is happening to the consciousness requires reporting from one.
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We know about response time from reflex tests.
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Consciousness is not a reflex.

The moving of the arm by consciousness is not a reflex.

Your timing of reflexes is as worthless as the timing of human guesses.
 
untermensche said:
DBT said:
That is your claim. You are wrong but refuse to not only admit that you are wrong, but acknowledge it to yourself.




We know about response time from reflex tests.
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Consciousness is not a reflex.
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Didn't say it was. I was talking about response times/timing of report.

You either need to read more carefully or stop constructing strawman.

untermensche said:
Your timing of reflexes is as worthless as the timing of human guesses.
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It's like you don't actually read anything your opponents say or provide in the way of evidence. You can do reflex tests online and these time your response from the visual cue to your click of the button. It is not an instant response.
 
Experience doesn't become nothing because it's causes are not understood.

What is needed is the explanation for how the mind causes the brain to move the arm.

Pretending that it doesn't is preventing progress.
 
Nor does pretending there is a mind at all.

It's only one's b rain that produces thought using inputs from senses, detectors, and chemical activity monitors.

One can measure progress. One cannot measure something imaginary therefore one cannot make progress claiming mind or consciousness.
 
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