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Consciousness

You have desperately thrown that out as some kind of answer before.

Stimulating the brain tells you what happens to a brain when it is artificially stimulated. It throws normal function off and creates an artificial situation and strange sensations that don't exist otherwise as the brain tries to make sense of abnormal signals.

It tells you nothing about what a brain is doing without the stimulation.

It tells you nothing about how the mind uses the brain to move the arm.

Something we can clearly experience everyday. Those of us that can voluntarily move.

We invented the word "voluntarily" for a reason.
 
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Wow. Let's take your thesis to it's logical extent shall we.

It tells you nothing about what a brain is doing without the stimulation

So if an experimenter inputs energy into the nervous system and we get systematic output from the system we know nothing about what the system does without the stimulation.

You chose the position when you took your saw to the branch.

Systems are expected to respond consistently to particular stimulation whether experimenter or nature generated. Else there would be no possible validity to scientific experimentation.

Yet, great advances have been made by man using the very tactics you reject.

You have an explanation and a rationale problem.

Go try to spin it if you can.
 
Wow. Let's take your thesis to it's logical extent shall we.

It tells you nothing about what a brain is doing without the stimulation

So if an experimenter inputs energy into the nervous system and we get systematic output from the system we know nothing about what the system does without the stimulation.

You don't get systemic output.

You get electricity abnormally stimulating cells and the brain desperately trying to make some kind of sense of it.
 
You have desperately thrown that out as some kind of answer before.

Stimulating the brain tells you what happens to a brain when it is artificially stimulated. It throws normal function off and creates an artificial situation and strange sensations that don't exist otherwise as the brain tries to make sense of abnormal signals.

It tells you nothing about what a brain is doing without the stimulation.

It tells you nothing about how the mind uses the brain to move the arm.

Something we can clearly experience everyday. Those of us that can voluntarily move.

We invented the word "voluntarily" for a reason.

Nothing desperate about posting quotes and links to actual research and results on motor action in relation to perception, the mechanisms, how actions are chosen and performed, evidence and analysis that's shows the error of your beliefs and claims, the actual desperation lies in you dismissing research and evidence with a few glib words, then reasserting your own unfounded beliefs as if nothing happened.
 
You get electricity abnormally stimulating cells and the brain desperately trying to make some kind of sense of it.

This just shows that you have a poor understanding of the research. As if all the researchers in the world don't have a clue, but you understand consciousness perfectly, your smart autonomous consciousness that controls a dumb brain. Wow, great stuff. Should be in all the science journals.
 
It tells you nothing about what a brain is doing without the stimulation

So if an experimenter inputs energy into the nervous system and we get systematic output from the system we know nothing about what the system does without the stimulation.

You don't get systemic output.

You get electricity abnormally stimulating cells and the brain desperately trying to make some kind of sense of it.

You get systematic output constrained to parameters experiments impose. Stimulation in ascending pathway gets output at motor cortex and behavioral response consistent with stimulation for instance. Stimulating hypothalamus gets responses from motor cortex and increased feeding behavior in rats for instance. Stimulating frontal medial lateral cortex gets increased Oxygen uptake response in visual cortex IAC with that produced by behavioral test for instance.

Psychiatrists will tell you a story because they believe and build consciousness is a thing in theory. However neuroscientists get responses consistent with determined behavior for specific inputs, even those supposedly involving choice which argue against free will hypotheses. Psychiatric treatments, both behavioral and chemical, are not productive. Nor are psychiatric treatments effective to more than about 20% if those treated, about the same as those who can't be hypnotized.

You give me a pain in the neck with your mantra and silly assertions. If you knew what is involved in experiments I don't think you'd hold your great flood thesis of mind existence.
 
So if an experimenter inputs energy into the nervous system and we get systematic output from the system we know nothing about what the system does without the stimulation.

You don't get systemic output.

You get electricity abnormally stimulating cells and the brain desperately trying to make some kind of sense of it.

You get systematic output constrained to parameters experiments impose.

Suppose you could just shove some foreign electricity into a computer chip.

Of course you may get some kind of functional response. You might get the chip to give the command to produce the letter "a" on the screen.

But shoving in some foreign electricity will not tell you how the chip created the "a".

And artificially stimulating a brain will never tell you how the mind uses the brain to move the arm.
 
You make up whatever objection suits your needs regardless of research or evidence. The brain is being constantly stimulated by external inputs, to which it responds. The response being determined by (basically) neural architecture and memory. Stimulating neural structures ''artificially'' just helps to reveal the role that structure plays in the brain more clearly.
 
You make up whatever objection suits your needs regardless of research or evidence. The brain is being constantly stimulated by external inputs, to which it responds. The response being determined by (basically) neural architecture and memory. Stimulating neural structures ''artificially'' just helps to reveal the role that structure plays in the brain more clearly.

Shoving in some external foreign electricity tells you how the brain responds to the introduction of external foreign electricity.

Nothing else.

It tells you nothing about normal function.

Which is not the application of external electricity.
 
You make up whatever objection suits your needs regardless of research or evidence. The brain is being constantly stimulated by external inputs, to which it responds. The response being determined by (basically) neural architecture and memory. Stimulating neural structures ''artificially'' just helps to reveal the role that structure plays in the brain more clearly.

Shoving in some external foreign electricity tells you how the brain responds to the introduction of external foreign electricity.

Nothing else.

It tells you nothing about normal function.

Which is not the application of external electricity.


Not because you say so. It's clear that you don't understand the purpose of research, the results, the evidence or that researchers are aware of factors that may bias the results. Just as it is quite clear that you are desperately trying to maintain a facade of credibility.

Meanwhile, more stuff for you to ignore or brush aside...so you can keep claiming that nothing is known, yet you yourself claim to know, meanwhile claiming that nobody else knows, ie, everyone who disagrees with your smart autonomous consciousness in a dumb brain claim;


Abstract
''To successfully interact with objects in the environment, sensory evidence must be continuously acquired, interpreted, and used to guide appropriate motor responses. For example, when driving, a red light should motivate a motor command to depress the brake pedal. Single-unit recording studies have established that simple sensorimotor transformations are mediated by the same neurons that ultimately guide the behavioral response. However, it is also possible that these sensorimotor regions are the recipients of a modality-independent decision signal that is computed elsewhere. Here, we used functional magnetic resonance imaging and human observers to show that the time course of activation in a subregion of the right insula is consistent with a role in accumulating sensory evidence independently from the required motor response modality (saccade vs manual). Furthermore, a combination of computational modeling and simulations of the blood oxygenation level-dependent response suggests that this region is not simply recruited by general arousal or by the tonic maintenance of attention during the decision process. Our data thus raise the possibility that a modality-independent representation of sensory evidence may guide activity in effector-specific cortical areas before the initiation of a behavioral response.''


Abstract
''Recent findings: Voluntary, willed behaviours preferentially implicate specific regions of the frontal cortex in humans. Recent studies have demonstrated constraints on cognition, which manifest as variation in frontal lobe function and emergent behaviour (specifically intrinsic genetic and cognitive limitations, supervening psychological and neurochemical disturbances), and temporal constraints on subjective awareness and reporting. Although healthy persons generally experience themselves as 'free' and the originators of their actions, electroencephalographic data continue to suggest that 'freedom' is exercised before awareness.''
 
Shoving in some external foreign electricity tells you how the brain responds to the introduction of external foreign electricity.

Nothing else.

It tells you nothing about normal function.

Which is not the application of external electricity.

Not because you say so. It's clear that you don't understand the purpose of research, the results, the evidence or that researchers are aware of factors that may bias the results. Just as it is quite clear that you are desperately trying to maintain a facade of credibility.

You have never had a whiff of credibility.

You present things you do not understand and things that do not say what you claim they say.

It is a show of credibility without any substance.

Artificial electrical stimulation tells you nothing about normal function.

It is not normal function. It is interfering with normal function.
 
I find DBT very credible. Have you any believers?

You're as deluded as he is, so what?

You both accept absurd claims without questions, so what?

You both could be led anywhere, led to believe anything, if it comes from the proper authorities, so what?

There is nothing "normal" about sticking in a probe and directing an electric current into the middle of the brain.

You will not learn anything except how the brain reacts to abnormal stimulations.
 
Not because you say so. It's clear that you don't understand the purpose of research, the results, the evidence or that researchers are aware of factors that may bias the results. Just as it is quite clear that you are desperately trying to maintain a facade of credibility.

You have never had a whiff of credibility.

You present things you do not understand and things that do not say what you claim they say.

It is a show of credibility without any substance.

Artificial electrical stimulation tells you nothing about normal function.

It is not normal function. It is interfering with normal function.

That's beyond sad. It's a case extreme denial.
 
Bullshit.

If I applied electricity to a peripheral nerve and your finger moved will I have explained something about the nature of how nerves and muscles work together?
 
Bullshit.

If I applied electricity to a peripheral nerve and your finger moved will I have explained something about the nature of how nerves and muscles work together?

How and why your finger moves when a current is applied says something about the nature of movement, nerves and muscles. Just as applying current to various regions of the brain tells us something about the role these structures play, emotion here, memory integration there, motor action initiation and so on...but for you this is an inconvenient truth.

Plus research does only involve ''applying electricity'' to brain structures, as well you know. But that too is an inconvenient truth for your unfounded beliefs and denial of anything and everything that contradicts them...which is pretty much everything related to science and research.
 
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/u...l-signal-stimulate-human-brain-improve-memory

Neuroscientists at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA have discovered precisely where and how to electrically stimulate the human brain to enhance people’s recollection of distinct memories. People with epilepsy who received low-current electrical pulses showed a significant improvement in their ability to recognize specific faces and ignore similar ones.

Eight of nine patients’ ability to recognize the faces of specific people improved after receiving electrical pulses to the right side of the brain’s entorhinal area, which is critical to learning and memory. However, electrical stimulation delivered to the left side of the region, tested on four other people, resulted in no improvement in the patient’s recall.

...

The researchers followed 13 people with epilepsy who had ultrafine wires implanted in their brains to pinpoint the origin of their seizures. The team monitored the wires to record neuron activity as memories were formed, then sent a specific pattern of quick pulses back into the entorhinal area.

Interesting.
 
Bullshit.

If I applied electricity to a peripheral nerve and your finger moved will I have explained something about the nature of how nerves and muscles work together?

How and why your finger moves when a current is applied says something about the nature of movement, nerves and muscles. Just as applying current to various regions of the brain tells us something about the role these structures play, emotion here, memory integration there, motor action initiation and so on...but for you this is an inconvenient truth.

Plus research does only involve ''applying electricity'' to brain structures, as well you know. But that too is an inconvenient truth for your unfounded beliefs and denial of anything and everything that contradicts them...which is pretty much everything related to science and research.

What does stimulating a nerve tell you about how the nerve gets the muscle to contract?
 
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