Contemplating short dresses and cleavage on teens

[Rhea]

Seeing a bunch of semi-formal pictures from various area high schools.

Many of the girls that I know to be 15-17 are shown with their huge happy smiles, feeling fancy in their dresses.

Some of the dresses are extremely short (enough that I’d be annoyed by inability to lean over), some have prodigious cleavage (enough that I’d be annoyed by inability to turn suddenly,) some are accompanied by strappy spike heels (high enough that I’d be annoyed by sore feet and instability). The girls are in bright lipstick and coiffed hair.

But what struck me as I enjoyed how happy their smiles were, was that I knew that not one of them, not a single one, was dressed this way to attract sex.

The think they are fancy. The are fancy.
They think they look more adult. And they do.
And those things are ALL that the girls are looking to be. fancy grown-ups for the evening.

And it is certain that some people would look at the same innocent pictures and duck-lip poses and think, “they are asking for it.”

 

[Keith&Co.]

And it is certain that some people would look at the same innocent pictures and duck-lip poses and think, “they are asking for it.”

Yeah, but there are also people who don't need to see what they were wearing before making that determination.

 

[Rhea]

And it is certain that some people would look at the same innocent pictures and duck-lip poses and think, “they are asking for it.”

Yeah, but there are also people who don't need to see what they were wearing before making that determination.

That is a good point.

 

[steve_bank]

The Ramsey girl on Colorado was young and from, her pictures her parents dressed her up like a prostitute IMO.
Raise kids, both boys and girls, to equate self worth with sexually appeal and especially tits and ass for girls and we get the growing problem of sexual abuse.

Add to that bohemia, obsession with being thin, not uncommon among teens.
girl

 

[Rhea]

The Ramsey girl on Colorado was young and from, her pictures her parents dressed her up like a prostitute IMO.
Raise kids, both boys and girls, to equate self worth with sexually appeal and especially tits and ass for girls and we get the growing problem of sexual abuse.

Add to that bohemia, obsession with being thin, not uncommon among teens.
girl

But the point is that Ramse didn’t think she was a prostitute, she thought she was a princess.

So why do these teen girls, who think they’re dressing up “fancy” get accused of equating their self worth with tits and ass?

 

[thebeave]

Seeing a bunch of semi-formal pictures from various area high schools.

Many of the girls that I know to be 15-17 are shown with their huge happy smiles, feeling fancy in their dresses.

Some of the dresses are extremely short (enough that I’d be annoyed by inability to lean over), some have prodigious cleavage (enough that I’d be annoyed by inability to turn suddenly,) some are accompanied by strappy spike heels (high enough that I’d be annoyed by sore feet and instability). The girls are in bright lipstick and coiffed hair.

But what struck me as I enjoyed how happy their smiles were, was that I knew that not one of them, not a single one, was dressed this way to attract sex.

The think they are fancy. The are fancy.
They think they look more adult. And they do.
And those things are ALL that the girls are looking to be. fancy grown-ups for the evening.

And it is certain that some people would look at the same innocent pictures and duck-lip poses and think, “they are asking for it.”

How can you be so sure? Did you do some sort of Vulcan mind meld on them? Are you saying its true for all the many thousands of girls across the country at these types of events, or just in your local schools?

 

[thebeave]

The Ramsey girl on Colorado was young and from, her pictures her parents dressed her up like a prostitute IMO.
Raise kids, both boys and girls, to equate self worth with sexually appeal and especially tits and ass for girls and we get the growing problem of sexual abuse.

Add to that bohemia, obsession with being thin, not uncommon among teens.
girl

Jon Benet wasn't really all that hot without her makeup on, though.

 

[rousseau]

From the perspective of cultural norms it doesn't matter what the intent was, all that matters is that they're wearing clothes that attract men.

A lot of what people, men and women, do isn't done with any other pretense besides 'this is what I need to do to blend in and appear like everybody else'. But in practice these norms, being healthy, wearing nice clothes, having a good job result in sex as a side-effect, which is why the norms exist.

I'm not going to argue whether or not women are 'asking for it' because this isn't 4chan and I have better things to do. Some people are dolts and make dumb, unfounded arguments, this is the way of the world. But either way our genes win because when males or females go out of their way to 'look nice', what's really happening is that they're attracting the opposite sex.

 

[Rhea]

How can you be so sure? Did you do some sort of Vulcan mind meld on them? Are you saying its true for all the many thousands of girls across the country at these types of events, or just in your local schools?

I’m saying it is true for the girls in that picture.
I’m also saying it was true for me and my friends in high school.

 

[Rhea]

From the perspective of cultural norms it doesn't matter what the intent was, all that matters is that they're wearing clothes that attract men.

Wait - “all that matters” to whom?

because when males or females go out of their way to 'look nice', what's really happening is that they're attracting the opposite sex.

They are not, however (of course) giving permission to men, all men, or any men.


So “all that matters” from a cultural perspective, from an action perspective, is their intent.
Of course.

 

[Toni]

Seeing a bunch of semi-formal pictures from various area high schools.

Many of the girls that I know to be 15-17 are shown with their huge happy smiles, feeling fancy in their dresses.

Some of the dresses are extremely short (enough that I’d be annoyed by inability to lean over), some have prodigious cleavage (enough that I’d be annoyed by inability to turn suddenly,) some are accompanied by strappy spike heels (high enough that I’d be annoyed by sore feet and instability). The girls are in bright lipstick and coiffed hair.

But what struck me as I enjoyed how happy their smiles were, was that I knew that not one of them, not a single one, was dressed this way to attract sex.

The think they are fancy. The are fancy.
They think they look more adult. And they do.
And those things are ALL that the girls are looking to be. fancy grown-ups for the evening.

And it is certain that some people would look at the same innocent pictures and duck-lip poses and think, “they are asking for it.”

How can you be so sure? Did you do some sort of Vulcan mind meld on them? Are you saying its true for all the many thousands of girls across the country at these types of events, or just in your local schools?

In my experience (having once been a teenage girl and having raised teenage girls and having been around a lot of teenage girls), teenage girls dress up to look fancy and grown up and pretty and even sexy without thinking about sex itself at all. To a young teenage girl, 'sexy' = pretty but not childish = girl boy would like to date, date = watching a movie and eating pizza or other junk food or a couple of times during the school year, putting on a fancy dress and going to a 'dance.' Where mostly the girls dance and the boys look awkward.

What a girl is asking for, what a girl wants is RESPECT. There is no reason on earth that she cannot get respect dressed in a short dress with lots of sparkles and some cleavage and high heels or when she's wearing baggy jeans and a too large sweatshirt.

The problem isn't what girls are wearing.

It's what dumbfucks are thinking. And which head they're using to do their 'thinking.'

 

[Bronzeage]

How can you be so sure? Did you do some sort of Vulcan mind meld on them? Are you saying its true for all the many thousands of girls across the country at these types of events, or just in your local schools?

I’m saying it is true for the girls in that picture.
I’m also saying it was true for me and my friends in high school.

When I started my freshman year in high school, the fashion rage was "Hotpants", what today is called "Daisy Dukes" or "Short shorts. A couple dozen girls showed up for the first day of classes in their brand new Hotpants. The current dress code allowed shorts, but didn't specify anything about the shorts. The dress code was very specific about the length of skirts, but no one whose job it was to write these rules ever considered a parent would let their daughter leave for school dressed in such a way.

There was a quick meeting of the school board to modify the dress code, to prohibit Hotpants.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Isn't this the part where dad teaches son about respect for women and mom teaches daughter about (fill in the blank, mom). Or do we live in a fantasy world where seventeen/eighteen year old boys are expected to be in complete control of their emotions and urges regardless of the alcohol that may have been consumed (which by the way was taught to be acceptable by none other than mom and dad's regular drinking and shrine to alcohol). Because that world gets ugly fast.

 

[thebeave]

How can you be so sure? Did you do some sort of Vulcan mind meld on them? Are you saying its true for all the many thousands of girls across the country at these types of events, or just in your local schools?

I’m saying it is true for the girls in that picture.
I’m also saying it was true for me and my friends in high school.

I still don't understand how you know what's in their minds, unless you ask them and even then, I wouldn't expect a teenage girl to necessarily be honest with an adult about her sexual desires. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, as they say.

Are there ever occasions where teen girls dress up to impress/attract boys (and thus sex)? If not, what methods, other than appearance, do girls that age use to get the attention of boys?

 

[Rhea]

do we live in a fantasy world where seventeen/eighteen year old boys are expected to be in complete control of their emotions and urges regardless of the alcohol that may have been consumed

Yes.

Or they should stay home. Wear a burka over their heads to prevent their bad behavior. Whatever it takes, yes.

 

[Rhea]

I still don't understand how you know what's in their minds, unless you ask them and even then, I wouldn't expect a teenage girl to necessarily be honest with an adult about her sexual desires. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, as they say.

Are there ever occasions where teen girls dress up to impress/attract boys (and thus sex)? If not, what methods, other than appearance, do girls that age use to get the attention of boys?

Yeah, sure. Boys can find out whether it;'s the case by looking for other signs besides clothing. If necessary, asking the girls if they want sex.
I'm talking about a high school semi formal dance, so it's not actually necessary for the boys to get laid that night, you know.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

And it is certain that some people would look at the same innocent pictures and duck-lip poses and think, “they are asking for it.”

Yeah, but there are also people who don't need to see what they were wearing before making that determination.

That is a good point.

It is the main point. Rapists aren't out for sex. Non-rapists, however, trying to make sense out of what repists do look at surface clues--like clothing--and think, "Ah hah! She dressed all sexy and that's why the rapist raped her."

 

[Tharmas]

Clothes have many more implications than simply attracting the opposite sex. Among other things they display status, maturity, and wealth. In business you often here the admonitions to “dress for success” and to “dress for the job you want, not the one you have.” Until fairly recently, if I am not mistaken, boys in England wore short pants until they reached a certain age. The right wing complains that African Americans dress like thugs, and therefore are “asking for it” vis a vis police. In older times status meant wearing clothes that were hard to put on, implying that one had plenty of leisure time and/or servants. That’s why, for men, a tux is so fussy to put on. Dress for dinner. Jacket and tie required for admission to this club, etc. None of this has to do with having sex.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Clothes have a many more implications than simply attracting the opposite sex. Among other things they display status, maturity, and wealth. In business you often here the admonitions to “dress for success” and to “dress for the job you want, not the one you have.” Until fairly recently, if I am not mistaken, boys in England wore short pants until they reached a certain age. The right wing complains that African Americans dress like thugs, and therefore are “asking for it” vis a vis police. In older times status meant wearing clothes that were hard to put on, implying that one had plenty of leisure time or servants. That’s why, for men, a tux is so fussy to put on. Dress for dinner. Jacket and tie required for admission to this club, etc. None of this has to do with having sex.

Or rape.

It's very simple. No one would ever argue that because someone was wearing shorts, that means they were "asking to be mugged."

 

[Toni]

How can you be so sure? Did you do some sort of Vulcan mind meld on them? Are you saying its true for all the many thousands of girls across the country at these types of events, or just in your local schools?

I’m saying it is true for the girls in that picture.
I’m also saying it was true for me and my friends in high school.

I still don't understand how you know what's in their minds, unless you ask them and even then, I wouldn't expect a teenage girl to necessarily be honest with an adult about her sexual desires. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, as they say.

Are there ever occasions where teen girls dress up to impress/attract boys (and thus sex)? If not, what methods, other than appearance, do girls that age use to get the attention of boys?

Dressing to attract and impress boys does NOT equal sex to teenage girls. Younger teens and preteens seem to think that pretty or grown up and sexy all mean the same thing. Sexy to a young girl NOT the same thing as “I am available for sex.” In fact for most grown women, wanting to look sexy does NOT signal a willingness to have sex with random men. It might signal a willingness to have sex with a particular man but it also might be that she merely wants positive attention from men or more likely, a specific man.

Frankly absolutely anything can signal sex to teenage boys.