Cop Tases Black City Councilman

[AthenaAwakened]

Touching and heroic and loving of the suffering of black people but not relevant to the discussion at hand. As you said yourself

"Everyone" -- as an average, as a group -- is worse off, but individuals could be better off than they otherwise would have been.

If that is true, then so must this be true

"Everyone" -- as an average, as a group -- is better off, but individuals could be worse off [or unaffected] than they otherwise would have been.

WHICH MEANS NO ONE need show how anything affects you personally in order to be valid in stating generalities about groups.[/I]

Okay, I'll make the statement more general, then.

Which individual whites 'benefitted' from this action so that white people as a group also benefitted?

Please note you also must show that no white people were harmed by this action, or at least you must show that the 'total white benefit' was higher than the 'total white harm', if you're going to say white people as a group benefitted.

No I don't have to do anything except stay black and die, and if my last name is Jackson, I don't even have to stay black.

And by YOUR OWN WORDS and YOUR OWN REASONING, which i will continue to post every time you try this raggedy and tired ploy, No one has to show how a generalized thing effects any one individual person.

 

[Toni]

Wasn't he interfering in police business?

Nope. The police were interfering in his business.

The police were on his property. His friends were on his property. He was not breaking any laws. His friends weren't breaking any laws. The police were uninvited. The police were unwelcome. The police had no business being there. The police, trespassing on his property, tell him to retreat from his property. He tries to explain to them that this is his property and the police interpret that as "interfering." So they decide to manhandle the guy despite the guy always keeping his hands to himself. The guy is pushed down to his knees as he explains to the officers that he isn't resisting. He never touches anyone. He never threatens anyone. And in the confusion of several officers shouting at him various things at the same it takes him more than half a second to comply with a command from one of them to put his hands behind his back so ... the officer shoots him with a tazer gun.

If the guy had a heart condition he could be dead right now. Thank goodness he didn't.

But that wouldn't change the mind of the defenders of Authoritarian overreach on this board. Because according to them authority figures never have a bad day and never make mistakes. The victims of authority figures always deserve their fate.

To be fair, I doubt they would feel the same way about a white council member tazed on his own property. That would provoke some outrage. Especially if the officers were black.

 

[Metaphor]

Okay, I'll make the statement more general, then.

Which individual whites 'benefitted' from this action so that white people as a group also benefitted?

Please note you also must show that no white people were harmed by this action, or at least you must show that the 'total white benefit' was higher than the 'total white harm', if you're going to say white people as a group benefitted.

No I don't have to do anything except stay black and die, and if my last name is Jackson, I don't even have to stay black.

And by YOUR OWN WORDS and YOUR OWN REASONING, which i will continue to post every time you try this raggedy and tired ploy, No one has to show how a generalized thing effects any one individual person.

You haven't shown even the generalised effect.

Please, do continue to post my own words. I said them and I believe them. (What a refreshing thing to write after having written 'did not say it and don't believe it' to a seemingly infinite number of strawmen hurled at me).

But if you claim that racism benefits whites in America, and you believe this is a racist action, explain how whites got a net benefit.

But if you don't think this is racist, or you don't think racism always benefits whites, then that's okay. You're not making any claims so you don't have to defend them.

 

[zorq]

He's a politician. You ought to taze him, as much as you like.

If this isn't a joke then you clearly advocate assaulting innocent people with electricity as long as pleasure is derived from it. And you think we should value your judgement on law and ethics on this board? Seriously?

If that is a joke you might consider putting a smilie in your post.

Why?:

Show

I got an administrative warning a couple of months ago when Derec posted a picture advocating rape and I took him at his word. Why wouldn't I when there was no explanation or indication he was joking at all and his posts demonstrate that he clearly fears and distrusts all women. So a smilie would really help me out. Thanks.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Wasn't he interfering in police business?

Nope. The police were interfering in his business.

The police were on his property. His friends were on his property. He was not breaking any laws. His friends weren't breaking any laws. The police were uninvited. The police were unwelcome. The police had no business being there. The police, trespassing on his property, tell him to retreat from his property. He tries to explain to them that this is his property and the police interpret that as "interfering." So they decide to manhandle the guy despite the guy always keeping his hands to himself. The guy is pushed down to his knees as he explains to the officers that he isn't resisting. He never touches anyone. He never threatens anyone. And in the confusion of several officers shouting at him various things at the same it takes him more than half a second to comply with a command from one of them to put his hands behind his back so ... the officer shoots him with a tazer gun.

If the guy had a heart condition he could be dead right now. Thank goodness he didn't.

But that wouldn't change the mind of the defenders of Authoritarian overreach on this board. Because according to them authority figures never have a bad day and never make mistakes. The victims of authority figures always deserve their fate.

The police were establishing if there was wrongdoing or not. Private property doesn't matter, you can't just order them to leave if they think a crime is going on. You also can't interfere with them figuring out if there was a crime. If you won't butt out expect to get removed by force.

 

[atrib]

Nope. The police were interfering in his business.

The police were on his property. His friends were on his property. He was not breaking any laws. His friends weren't breaking any laws. The police were uninvited. The police were unwelcome. The police had no business being there. The police, trespassing on his property, tell him to retreat from his property. He tries to explain to them that this is his property and the police interpret that as "interfering." So they decide to manhandle the guy despite the guy always keeping his hands to himself. The guy is pushed down to his knees as he explains to the officers that he isn't resisting. He never touches anyone. He never threatens anyone. And in the confusion of several officers shouting at him various things at the same it takes him more than half a second to comply with a command from one of them to put his hands behind his back so ... the officer shoots him with a tazer gun.

If the guy had a heart condition he could be dead right now. Thank goodness he didn't.

But that wouldn't change the mind of the defenders of Authoritarian overreach on this board. Because according to them authority figures never have a bad day and never make mistakes. The victims of authority figures always deserve their fate.

The police were establishing if there was wrongdoing or not. Private property doesn't matter, you can't just order them to leave if they think a crime is going on. You also can't interfere with them figuring out if there was a crime. If you won't butt out expect to get removed by force.

And the police had probable cause to believe that a crime was being committed on the property because?
And the use of a taser was required because?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

So far the only "crime" committed that the police could realistically charge is getting-your-shoes-out-of-your-trunk-while-black, which ISN'T a crime.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

No I don't have to do anything except stay black and die, and if my last name is Jackson, I don't even have to stay black.

And by YOUR OWN WORDS and YOUR OWN REASONING, which i will continue to post every time you try this raggedy and tired ploy, No one has to show how a generalized thing effects any one individual person.

You haven't shown even the generalised effect.

Please, do continue to post my own words. I said them and I believe them. (What a refreshing thing to write after having written 'did not say it and don't believe it' to a seemingly infinite number of strawmen hurled at me).

But if you claim that racism benefits whites in America, and you believe this is a racist action, explain how whites got a net benefit.

But if you don't think this is racist, or you don't think racism always benefits whites, then that's okay. You're not making any claims so you don't have to defend them.

The BIG takeaway, that you are missing, is that YOU know that

As you said yourself

"Everyone" -- as an average, as a group -- is worse off, but individuals could be better off than they otherwise would have been.

If that is true, then so must this be true

"Everyone" -- as an average, as a group -- is better off, but individuals could be worse off [or unaffected] than they otherwise would have been.

WHICH MEANS NO ONE need show how anything affects [/I]ANY ONE PERSON personally in order to be valid in stating generalities about groups or for any other reason.

 

[Toni]

Justified. That's what tends to happen when you try to interfere with the police doing their job.

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds justified. The councilman could have picked up the body camera that was on the ground and beaten the police to death with it. The cops are allowed to use force in cases of self-defence.

Taser normally doesn't mean threat, it means non-compliance.

Out of curiosity, do you sleep in a t shirt with Stalin's picture on it?

 

[Toni]

Okay, question here:

Can somebody explain how I've benefitted from this situation? I'm a cis white male, so I must have benefitted. But I also don't have the requisite training or imagination to enable me to understand how I've benefitted.

(I know it's not your job to educate me. Think of it as charity).

I do think of it as charity:

The police are so busy tazing black people that they don't have the time or energy to notice whatever noncompliance you white men are engaged in. Notice I did not say 'might.' I said 'are.' Because we all know it's true. You just feel entitled to noncompliance because of your privilege.

 

[maxparrish]

He's a politician. You ought to taze him, as much as you like.

If this isn't a joke then you clearly advocate assaulting innocent people with electricity as long as pleasure is derived from it. And you think we should value your judgement on law and ethics on this board? Seriously?

If that is a joke you might consider putting a smilie in your post.

Why?:

Show

I got an administrative warning a couple of months ago when Derec posted a picture advocating rape and I took him at his word. Why wouldn't I when there was no explanation or indication he was joking at all and his posts demonstrate that he clearly fears and distrusts all women. So a smilie would really help me out. Thanks.

It was a joke. Now as for tasing lawyers, telemarketers, and life insurance salesmen...well that is serious.

 

[zorq]

The police were establishing if there was wrongdoing or not. Private property doesn't matter, you can't just order them to leave if they think a crime is going on.

Private property does matter. The US has protections against the unreasonable search and seizure of private property. Was the search of this property reasonable? I don't know. But I do know that it is trivial for police officers to fabricate "reasonable suspicion" after the fact so we may never know. Whatever suspicion these officers had regarding the people or property, they did not materialize into any charges for anyone there so we know the suspicions must have been mistaken.

You also can't interfere with them figuring out if there was a crime. If you won't butt out expect to get removed by force.

Apparently you also can't peacefully help explain the situation to them without having them use force to electrify you into a painful state of shock.

 

[Axulus]

Touching and heroic and loving of the suffering of black people but not relevant to the discussion at hand. As you said yourself

"Everyone" -- as an average, as a group -- is worse off, but individuals could be better off than they otherwise would have been.

If that is true, then so must this be true

"Everyone" -- as an average, as a group -- is better off, but individuals could be worse off [or unaffected] than they otherwise would have been.

WHICH MEANS NO ONE need show how anything affects you personally in order to be valid in stating generalities about groups.[/I]

Okay, I'll make the statement more general, then.

Which individual whites 'benefitted' from this action so that white people as a group also benefitted?

Please note you also must show that no white people were harmed by this action, or at least you must show that the 'total white benefit' was higher than the 'total white harm', if you're going to say white people as a group benefitted.

We already know that whites will be harmed by this if this incident is shown to be a case of excessive unlawful force. The city will have to pay a settlement to the victim. Unless there are no whites in this community, those whites are made worse off by having a poorer city and fewer government services and/or higher taxes as a result.

 

[Axulus]

Your white privilege has so accustomed you to the massive benefits you are receiving from this, that you can no longer think clearly about it, or something.

Stop being so racist.

Maybe I'm seeing things, but isn't this an example of police using too much force?

Yes, but the question is, how do white individuals or whites as a group benefit from that when done to blacks? There have been claims made that whites benefit from racism.

The point is, we all lose when the police engage in these tactics, whites and blacks, even if the victims more often are black.

We lose from a less cohesive community.

We lose from a loss of trust.

We lose from the settlements that must be paid out to compensate the victim.

It's all losses as far as the eye can see.

 

[Axulus]

Nope. The police were interfering in his business.

The police were on his property. His friends were on his property. He was not breaking any laws. His friends weren't breaking any laws. The police were uninvited. The police were unwelcome. The police had no business being there. The police, trespassing on his property, tell him to retreat from his property. He tries to explain to them that this is his property and the police interpret that as "interfering." So they decide to manhandle the guy despite the guy always keeping his hands to himself. The guy is pushed down to his knees as he explains to the officers that he isn't resisting. He never touches anyone. He never threatens anyone. And in the confusion of several officers shouting at him various things at the same it takes him more than half a second to comply with a command from one of them to put his hands behind his back so ... the officer shoots him with a tazer gun.

If the guy had a heart condition he could be dead right now. Thank goodness he didn't.

But that wouldn't change the mind of the defenders of Authoritarian overreach on this board. Because according to them authority figures never have a bad day and never make mistakes. The victims of authority figures always deserve their fate.

The police were establishing if there was wrongdoing or not. Private property doesn't matter, you can't just order them to leave if they think a crime is going on. You also can't interfere with them figuring out if there was a crime. If you won't butt out expect to get removed by force.

Why did they think a crime was going on? What was the probable cause? And even then, you shouldn't automatically believe the police just because they say the guy was resisting. I don't see any particular reason why the taser was needed.

 

[Archimedes]

Justified. That's what tends to happen when you try to interfere with the police doing their job.
Taser normally doesn't mean threat, it means non-compliance.

Out of curiosity, do you sleep in a t shirt with Stalin's picture on it?

Loren is a self-described libertarian.

If you can make sense of that then you're a better person than I.

 

[Metaphor]

You haven't shown even the generalised effect.

Please, do continue to post my own words. I said them and I believe them. (What a refreshing thing to write after having written 'did not say it and don't believe it' to a seemingly infinite number of strawmen hurled at me).

But if you claim that racism benefits whites in America, and you believe this is a racist action, explain how whites got a net benefit.

But if you don't think this is racist, or you don't think racism always benefits whites, then that's okay. You're not making any claims so you don't have to defend them.

The BIG takeaway, that you are missing, is that YOU know that

As you said yourself

"Everyone" -- as an average, as a group -- is worse off, but individuals could be better off than they otherwise would have been.

If that is true, then so must this be true

"Everyone" -- as an average, as a group -- is better off, but individuals could be worse off [or unaffected] than they otherwise would have been.

WHICH MEANS NO ONE need show how anything affects [/I]ANY ONE PERSON personally in order to be valid in stating generalities about groups or for any other reason.

Are you trolling me? I am no longer asking you to show how this affects any one person. I've asked you to show how it benefits white people as a group.

Does this racist action benefit white people as a group? How, specifically, has it benefitted white people as a group?

 

[Metaphor]

Okay, question here:

Can somebody explain how I've benefitted from this situation? I'm a cis white male, so I must have benefitted. But I also don't have the requisite training or imagination to enable me to understand how I've benefitted.

(I know it's not your job to educate me. Think of it as charity).

I do think of it as charity:

The police are so busy tazing black people that they don't have the time or energy to notice whatever noncompliance you white men are engaged in. Notice I did not say 'might.' I said 'are.' Because we all know it's true. You just feel entitled to noncompliance because of your privilege.

I take this to mean you can't actually think of any way white people benefit. Noted.

 

[barbos]

If there were no blacks to taze police would have to taze whites. That's how whites benefit from it.

 

[Axulus]

If there were no blacks to taze police would have to taze whites. That's how whites benefit from it.

Do they have a taze quota they have to meet?