Cop Tases Black City Councilman

[Toni]

I do think of it as charity:

The police are so busy tazing black people that they don't have the time or energy to notice whatever noncompliance you white men are engaged in. Notice I did not say 'might.' I said 'are.' Because we all know it's true. You just feel entitled to noncompliance because of your privilege.

I take this to mean you can't actually think of any way white people benefit. Noted.

Hey, I don't know your life.

I do know that you sometimes deliberately pretend to miss points. Un-ironically..

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Out of curiosity, do you sleep in a t shirt with Stalin's picture on it?

Loren is a self-described libertarian.

If you can make sense of that then you're a better person than I.

I wouldn't even know where to begin trying.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If there were no blacks to taze police would have to taze whites. That's how whites benefit from it.

Do they have a taze quota they have to meet?

Don't forget we're talking about Texas...where when they have lulls in capital punishment, the illegal lynchings increase.

 

[Metaphor]

Hey, I don't know your life.

I do know that you sometimes deliberately pretend to miss points. Un-ironically..

Okay -- so you seriously think it's a benefit to white people that criminal whites go uninvestigated and unpunished.

Do me a favour, Toni. If you ever have the impulse to buy something for me that you think 'benefits' me, go and lie down somewhere until the impulse goes away.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Okay -- so you seriously think it's a benefit to white people that criminal whites go uninvestigated and unpunished.

If all of these premises are true, then wouldn't it allow continuity of a narrative that whites are better?

ETA: I will add that quite a lot of people are criminals personally or benefit from a criminal not going to jail that they depend upon and I don't mean criminals in a serious sense. I mean, traffic violations like Sarah Bland allegedly committed or smoking pot like Trayvon Martin probably did a month before George Zimmerman killed him. The police have limited resources. If they are constantly putting forth resources to investigate blacks as a group, then they have less resources to investigate whites as a group. So that would mean whites are getting caught less for traffic violations etc and smoking pot etc...which would benefit you, me, and some others. Does it mean it is beneficial to whites to not know there is a white serial killer in their neighborhood? No.

 

[Metaphor]

If all of these premises are true, then wouldn't it allow continuity of a narrative that whites are better?

If the narrative is true, and whites are indeed 'better', isn't it to everyone's benefit that this is known?

If the narrative is false, isn't it bad for us, morally and economically, to believe a false narrative? If more is expected of me (because of my white skin) and I am judged by a higher standard, or given roles that I fail at because they're beyond my grasp, isn't that a negative? And, how can I calculate the cost of the squandered potential of others held down by the false narrative?

It doesn't do me any good to falsely believe I've won the lottery, or to have others falsely believe I've won the lottery.

ETA: I will add that quite a lot of people are criminals personally or benefit from a criminal not going to jail that they depend upon and I don't mean criminals in a serious sense. I mean, traffic violations like Sarah Bland allegedly committed or smoking pot like Trayvon Martin probably did a month before George Zimmerman killed him. The police have limited resources. If they are constantly putting forth resources to investigate blacks as a group, then they have less resources to investigate whites as a group. So that would mean whites are getting caught less for traffic violations etc and smoking pot etc...which would benefit you, me, and some others. Does it mean it is beneficial to whites to not know there is a white serial killer in their neighborhood? No.

Whilst I believe smoking pot is not something that ought to be a crime, and every conviction for smoking pot makes our society poorer and worse, I hardly think traffic laws have no purpose. The more people that get done for speeding, say, the better off everyone is.

 

[JonA]

Private property does matter. The US has protections against the unreasonable search and seizure of private property.

Were they searching or seizing?

Whatever suspicion these officers had regarding the people or property, they did not materialize into any charges for anyone there so we know the suspicions must have been mistaken.

I knew a guy who had his entire house torn upside down by police; they were either at the wrong address or had bad information, I cannot remember which anymore.

Apparently you also can't peacefully help explain the situation to them ...

Well yeah, that's interference. No matter how nice you are about it, interfering is interfering.

 

[JonA]

Okay, question here:

Can somebody explain how I've benefitted from this situation? I'm a cis white male, so I must have benefitted. But I also don't have the requisite training or imagination to enable me to understand how I've benefitted.

(I know it's not your job to educate me. Think of it as charity).

I do think of it as charity:

The police are so busy tazing black people that they don't have the time or energy to notice whatever noncompliance you white men are engaged in.

Meanwhile entirely innocent white elderly men are being tazed in Florida: Link

Where non-black women actually do die after getting tazed in the back: Link

But yes, we should only focus on abuse of police power when it involves black people, because we already know those all whities deserved it.

If you make police abuse of force about race, police will just continue to abuse their force and get away with it. The real problem is police abuse of force; not police racism.

 

[JonA]

I saw the video. That's plenty information for me.

In other words your mind's made up and that's all there is to it.

If that's how you want to think, I'm not going to try to stop you.

Enjoy.

 

[Toni]

I do think of it as charity:

The police are so busy tazing black people that they don't have the time or energy to notice whatever noncompliance you white men are engaged in.

Meanwhile entirely innocent white elderly men are being tazed in Florida: Link

Where non-black women actually do die after getting tazed in the back: Link

But yes, we should only focus on abuse of police power when it involves black people, because we already know those all whities deserved it.

If you make police abuse of force about race, police will just continue to abuse their force and get away with it. The real problem is police abuse of force; not police racism.

Where did I say that we should only focus on the abuse of police power as it involves black people? Or that whites deserve it?

 

[laughing dog]

If you make police abuse of force about race, police will just continue to abuse their force and get away with it. The real problem is police abuse of force; not police racism.

I don't see why there cannot be two real problems: police abuse of force and police racism.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If the narrative is true, and whites are indeed 'better', isn't it to everyone's benefit that this is known?

If the narrative is false, isn't it bad for us, morally and economically, to believe a false narrative? If more is expected of me (because of my white skin) and I am judged by a higher standard, or given roles that I fail at because they're beyond my grasp, isn't that a negative? And, how can I calculate the cost of the squandered potential of others held down by the false narrative?

It doesn't do me any good to falsely believe I've won the lottery, or to have others falsely believe I've won the lottery.

ETA: I will add that quite a lot of people are criminals personally or benefit from a criminal not going to jail that they depend upon and I don't mean criminals in a serious sense. I mean, traffic violations like Sarah Bland allegedly committed or smoking pot like Trayvon Martin probably did a month before George Zimmerman killed him. The police have limited resources. If they are constantly putting forth resources to investigate blacks as a group, then they have less resources to investigate whites as a group. So that would mean whites are getting caught less for traffic violations etc and smoking pot etc...which would benefit you, me, and some others. Does it mean it is beneficial to whites to not know there is a white serial killer in their neighborhood? No.

Whilst I believe smoking pot is not something that ought to be a crime, and every conviction for smoking pot makes our society poorer and worse, I hardly think traffic laws have no purpose. The more people that get done for speeding, say, the better off everyone is.

Speeding is one of the most biased, ridiculous laws to follow (at least in the U.S.). Moreover, if police are using resources to go after group X, then it does benefit group (not X). Note that much of the "going after" is also illegitimate.

ETA: There is data that backs up my position. Read the Ferguson report put out by the FBI.

 

[ksen]

Okay, I'll make the statement more general, then.

Which individual whites 'benefitted' from this action so that white people as a group also benefitted?

Please note you also must show that no white people were harmed by this action, or at least you must show that the 'total white benefit' was higher than the 'total white harm', if you're going to say white people as a group benefitted.

We already know that whites will be harmed by this if this incident is shown to be a case of excessive unlawful force. The city will have to pay a settlement to the victim. Unless there are no whites in this community, those whites are made worse off by having a poorer city and fewer government services and/or higher taxes as a result.

I thought fewer government services was a good thing?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

The BIG takeaway, that you are missing, is that YOU know that

As you said yourself

"Everyone" -- as an average, as a group -- is worse off, but individuals could be better off than they otherwise would have been.

If that is true, then so must this be true

"Everyone" -- as an average, as a group -- is better off, but individuals could be worse off [or unaffected] than they otherwise would have been.

WHICH MEANS NO ONE need show how anything affects [/I]ANY ONE PERSON personally in order to be valid in stating generalities about groups or for any other reason.

Are you trolling me? I am no longer asking you to show how this affects any one person. I've asked you to show how it benefits white people as a group.

Does this racist action benefit white people as a group? How, specifically, has it benefitted white people as a group?

No, I am not trolling you. I am pointing out that YOU undermined a tact of argument (and did so almost immediately I might add) that YOU now want to engage in in order to NOT have to deal with actually discussing the real effects of racism in society.

Individualism: Whites are taught to see themselves as individuals, rather than as part of a racial group. Individualism enables us to deny that racism is structured into the fabric of society. This erases our history and hides the way in which wealth has accumulated over generations and benefits us, as a group, today. It also allows us to distance ourselves from the history and actions of our group. Thus we get very irate when we are "accused" of racism, because as individuals, we are "different" from other white people and expect to be seen as such; we find intolerable any suggestion that our behavior or perspectives are typical of our group as a whole.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/good-...k-to-white-people-about-racism_b_7183710.html

White supremacy is a thing. Racism is a thing. They are group and institutional dynamics with real world consequences. Whether or not Each and every white person living under WS gets to be princes or every black person has to be a pauper is irrelevant. the point lies in looking at who usually gets to be a prince and who usually gets to be pauper and why.

Think of it like this. One team wins the Super Bowl. Not everyone on the team will get to play in the game, but everyone on the team that wins gets a ring.

 

[Metaphor]

Think of it like this. One team wins the Super Bowl. Not everyone on the team will get to play in the game, but everyone on the team that wins gets a ring.

So black people getting tasered is like white people winning the Super Bowl?

I have asked again and again. And I'll ask one more time.

How does the black councilman getting tasered benefit white people?

 

[Metaphor]

It also allows us to distance ourselves from the history and actions of our group.

Well, uh, yeah. "White people" is not a group I chose to belong to: it's a label you are putting on me. And it's worse than people calling all Muslims terrorists because some Muslims are; people can choose their religion but they can't choose their race.

Thus we get very irate when we are "accused" of racism, because as individuals, we are "different" from other white people and expect to be seen as such;

Uh, yeah. I am different to other white people. I am not my skin colour.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Written to Athena:

How does the black councilman getting tasered benefit white people?

For one, the police used limited resources to illegitimately go after black people, where if they had not, the resources would have gone elsewhere with a higher probability that they could illegitimately have gone after White people dancing in their yard.

 

[Metaphor]

Written to Athena:

How does the black councilman getting tasered benefit white people?

For one, the police used limited resources to illegitimately go after black people, where if they had not, the resources would have gone elsewhere with a higher probability that they could illegitimately have gone after White people dancing in their yard.

This is like saying a higher murder rate of black people benefits whites, because there has to be a certain number of murders every year, and the fewer black victims, the more white victims.

Or: men benefit from the gendered nature of sexual assault, because there has to be <insert number> sexual assaults every year and if women weren't getting sexually assaulted, men would be.

EDIT: In terms of police racism, the 'they''d go after whites instead' makes even less sense, because you're specifically stating the only reason they go after blacks is racism. Why would they turn on whites,, in specific contradiction to their racist attitudes?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

No, it isn't like that because the police actually do have limited resources in the real world.

 

[Metaphor]

No, it isn't like that because the police actually do have limited resources in the real world.

No.

There is no reason for a 'police need to violently interact with people who aren't committing crimes' law of nature. The laws of physics do not fix this at a constant.

They could just stop violently interacting with people who aren't committing crimes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Maybe I'm seeing things, but isn't this an example of police using too much force?

Yes, but the question is, how do white individuals or whites as a group benefit from that when done to blacks? There have been claims made that whites benefit from racism.

The point is, we all lose when the police engage in these tactics, whites and blacks, even if the victims more often are black.

We lose from a less cohesive community.

Then why the fuck isn't that what is being discussed?