Anything which is likely to be taken down soon is going to be denier stuff, no point in watching.
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"Coronavirus and the US" or "We are all going to die!!!!"
- Thread starter Jimmy Higgins
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Anything which is likely to be taken down soon is going to be denier stuff, no point in watching.
repoman
Contributor
How does one compare the side effects getting a mild/medium case of Covid-19 that does NOT get into the bloodstream to getting any of the three US vaccine protein spikes that will get into the bloodstream by emerging from your own cells?
Yes I know that Covid can get into the bloodstream and effect the heart, it is a big deal.
But these new types of vaccines make you produce the spike protein from blood vessel epithelial cells that then release these spikes. Has this happened from a vaccine before? From an uneducated viewpoint this seems to be like a viral infection breaking out of cells. Does the immune system have a risk of also "seeing" it this way?
Will some of the vaccine get to the heart and have its cells produce the spike protein? If so on the second dose can the immune system attack some of these epithelial cells as the spike protein emerge?
What is going on with myocarditis with young men in Israel and the Pfizer vaccine?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-probing-link-between-pfizer-shot-and-heart-problem-in-men-under-30/
An old school dead or attenuated virus is looking pretty good to me right now, but I may be just skittish.
Yes I know that Covid can get into the bloodstream and effect the heart, it is a big deal.
But these new types of vaccines make you produce the spike protein from blood vessel epithelial cells that then release these spikes. Has this happened from a vaccine before? From an uneducated viewpoint this seems to be like a viral infection breaking out of cells. Does the immune system have a risk of also "seeing" it this way?
Will some of the vaccine get to the heart and have its cells produce the spike protein? If so on the second dose can the immune system attack some of these epithelial cells as the spike protein emerge?
What is going on with myocarditis with young men in Israel and the Pfizer vaccine?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-probing-link-between-pfizer-shot-and-heart-problem-in-men-under-30/
An old school dead or attenuated virus is looking pretty good to me right now, but I may be just skittish.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
I don't think that it's a good idea to reach such a conclusion on a suspicion that is based on a leaked report of a single study and that finds no credible proof of a link between the vaccine and myocarditis, which can have other causes. Even if there were such a small chance of a causal link, you have absolutely no reason to believe that a conventional "old school dead or attenuated virus" vaccine would be any safer. The reality is that the two mRNA vaccines out there have proved remarkably effective in millions of people without having any known risk of myocarditis. Conventional vaccines also have risks.
What we do know is that getting COVID has far greater risk than no vaccine and that more conventional vaccines such as J&J and AstraZenica have also produced signs of risk from dangerous blood clots. Your best bet is really to get whichever vaccine is most convenient and get it quickly. We are already in a fourth wave of infections. Vaccines cause the body to produce antibodies, but the mRNA vaccines also cause it to produce so-called "killer T-cells". So my preference would be (and was) to get the Pfizer vaccine. My cells should be protected from infection, but I also may have protection that directly destroys the virus.
Reference from the CDC: Understanding mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines
repoman
Contributor
The J&J vaccine (vector) is the same as the Pfizer and the Moderna (mRNA) vaccines in that it makes your cells produce the spike protein and send it by crossing the cell wall out into the bloodstream. What are the effects of all these spike proteins coming out of the cell walls? Does it damage the cells? Does it bring the immune system to these cells especially in the second shot or first shot for the previously covid infected?
Is this new aspect for vaccination a cause of serious side effects?
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/health/novavax-covid-19-vaccine-how-it-works-wellness-explainer/index.html
The old style vaccines does not have this happen, nor do the Novavax or Sanofi vaccines.
It may turn out to be very minor, but this is a new technology so I would not be so confident yet.
Going forward if it turns out that mRNA/vector vaccines are even slightly higher in side effects the rapidity and flexibility would make them worth it.
But if they cause many more serious side effects that needs to be impartially investigated.
Also are there some particular viruses that mRNA/vector vaccines are few/mild in side effects and other in which they are many/severe in side effects in comparison to other types of vaccines?
So I would say that the new mechanism needs completely fresh eyes ready to see how
Is this new aspect for vaccination a cause of serious side effects?
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/health/novavax-covid-19-vaccine-how-it-works-wellness-explainer/index.html
The old style vaccines does not have this happen, nor do the Novavax or Sanofi vaccines.
It may turn out to be very minor, but this is a new technology so I would not be so confident yet.
Going forward if it turns out that mRNA/vector vaccines are even slightly higher in side effects the rapidity and flexibility would make them worth it.
But if they cause many more serious side effects that needs to be impartially investigated.
Also are there some particular viruses that mRNA/vector vaccines are few/mild in side effects and other in which they are many/severe in side effects in comparison to other types of vaccines?
So I would say that the new mechanism needs completely fresh eyes ready to see how
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Repoman, you ask some good questions, but you should not really expect to get reasonable answers from an internet discussion board. It is true that the mRNA vaccines are new and that we have much to learn about how safe they are over the long run. However, their very newness prevents anyone from being able to answer such a question. What we do know is that the number of detectable safety issues are extremely small, and those who administer the vaccines are aware of what to look for. The danger of refusing to get vaccinated because of one's fear of the effects to the vaccine are vastly outweighed by the danger of actually getting COVID-19. FWIW, my advice is to get vaccinated as quickly as possible and choose the vaccine that you think will give you the most peace of mind. Personally, I'm confident that the risk from any of the vaccines is negligible at this point. You may experience some initial discomfort from side effects, but those seem to disappear after a day or two, if they happen at all.
The effect of the pieces of spike proteins is just to cause the immune system to produce antibodies that destroy viruses with the spikes. They don't appear to have any other effect on the body, and researchers have been testing mRNA vaccines for years now. It is just with COVID that mass vaccinations have been tried with them.
repoman
Contributor
I already gotten one Pfizer shot and have not had covid as far as I know. I was not at all concerned about the first shot. But some reading about the side effects while rare have me on a 3/10 level of concern. If this was an old school vaccine I would have a 0.5/10 concern.
Still, I will get the next shot in 13 days but will learn more about warning signs of a bad reaction and move quickly if I get them.
One thing other than sleeping and eating well will to be get some UV exposure from sun to have less chance of an immune over response. One shot is probably almost enough, and two may be overkill. So why not have immune system modulated by UV exposure?
Honestly, it is only the prospect of vaccine passport (which should also have option of passport for previously infected with antibodies instead of vaccine) that pushes me into the second shot.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pfizer-vaccine-covid-one-dose-deep-freeze-not-necessary-fda-application/
10% better coverage from that second jab but having all the risk of side effects, small risk but serious pain the ass at the least, does not seem worth it, for my situation.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Repo, my wife and I got both Pfizer vaccine shots at the downtown Amazon supervax center in Seattle. Our shots were at the same time and from the same batch. So I can tell you how we reacted to the second shot. I had nothing other than a sore arm after the second shot. Maybe I had some other mild reactions, but I don't really think so. My wife had a stronger reaction, which some people say happens with people that have a stronger immune system. She had some chills, a headache, and tiredness. It took a day or two for those "flu-like" symptoms to disappear completely. You are spot-on about getting sun, but vitamin D supplements might also help. You should just prepare for the possibility of not doing much on the following day. Of course, you don't want to take any NSAID medicine before the vaccination, but you can resume them afterwards. OTC drugs like Acetaminophen and Ibuprofen (even taken together) can be used to manage any aftereffects, if needed. Some people have stronger reactions than my wife did, but I'm sure you'll weather them just fine.
We have in the past used live-virus vaccines--and those hijack cells and use them to send out real virus, not merely pieces of the enemy. Sending stuff out of the cell doesn't cause issues. The live-virus vaccines are slightly more dangerous--but that's because of a failure of the immune system to deal with the infection. Note that the viral-vector vaccines are basically a lab version of a live-virus vaccine.
When the body fights off an infection (whether real or illusionary) there's a tiny chance that it goes haywire and turns on some part of the body. All vaccines have this risk--but so do the diseases the vaccines protect you against.
I'm not at all sure it's a matter of a stronger immune system, but how much of a ruckus the immune system makes in the process of doing it's job.
Both of us had sore arms. Move your arm more, there's less soreness. She was tired and went to bed early for one of the shots.
James Brown
Veteran Member
I got both Pfizer shots and didn't have so much as a sore arm. Not one side effect that I could identify. It made me wonder if perhaps I got one of the control group injections by mistake.
Outside of this, I almost never get sick enough to need a doctor's visit or even miss a day of work, so I would guess that I have a strong immune system. Dunno, but I'm glad I'm vaccinated all the same.
Outside of this, I almost never get sick enough to need a doctor's visit or even miss a day of work, so I would guess that I have a strong immune system. Dunno, but I'm glad I'm vaccinated all the same.
crazyfingers
Supermagnon
I'm looking forward to my second Pfizer in 3 days. Three weeks has never lasted so long. Otherwise like you I haven't had a sick day for my entire 35 years of working life. I don't even get colds.
The last time I got a real sickness was Chicken Pox when in college. That SUCKED. Chicken pox is best when still a kid. The older the suckier. I hear there are vaccines now.
repoman
Contributor
Going back to real viruses in nature, when fresh virus leave your cells doesn't your immune system try destroy the whole cell and even neighboring cells? (yes the virus can destroy the cell on its own.)
Do the immune cells also kill the cells that are releasing the just the spike proteins made from the instruction of the mRNA/vector vaccines at some times?
Also, which cells of the body are likely to make the spike proteins? The blood vessel cells? What if that happens in a dangerous bottle-necked spot and these cells are attacked and destroyed?
The point is this is something that already happens with live-virus vaccines and it hasn't been a problem. I don't see why mRNA or viral vector vaccines would be any different.
Anyway, more risks from Covid down the road:
https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/among-covid-19-survivors-an-increased-risk-of-death-serious-illness
Infected with Covid, 8 in 1,000 excess mortality in the next 6 months. Hospitalized with Covid, 29 in 1,000 excess mortality.
Note that this means it's something like 50% more dangerous than the death toll shows. In time we will almost certainly pass the million mark.
Jimmy Higgins
Contributor
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I was looking at the World-o-Meter stats and noticed something peculiar. They didn't seem right... like at all. The deaths seem wrong, as in, they aren't dropping. Well, yeah... they are getting lower, I mean the death rate didn't appear to be dropping.
So I plugged a few numbers in a spreadsheet and found something, well, odd.
Last month
April 27: 32.88 million cases, 586,900 deaths
May 27: 33.97 million cases, 606,200 deaths
Deltas on these give us 1.09 million cases and 19,300 deaths.
January 2021 (AKA a bit after America stopped giving a fuck)
January 1: 20.812 million cases, 364,200 deaths
January 31: 26.87 million cases, 461,300 deaths
Deltas here, 6.06 million cases, 97,100 deaths
Just to triple check:
October 2020 (AKA right before America will stop giving a fuck)
January 1: 7.61 million cases, 214,100 deaths
January 31: 9.52 million cases, 237,800 deaths
Deltas here, 1.91 million cases, 23,700 deaths
So, the maths confirmed my suspicion of the charts. The death rate isn't dropping, in fact, it is increasing.
October 2020 Death Rate 1.24%
January 2021 Death Rate 1.60%
April/May 2021 Death Rate 1.77%
Can someone please show me the math where I'm screwing up somewhere? How in the heck can the death rate be higher now... with 75% of elderly people immunized. 4 in 5 deaths were people 85 or older (or somewhere along those lines).
One thing I can think of is that the confirmed cases are higher than reported and people just aren't getting tested anymore, providing an illusion of a death rate increase. But an increase of 40% in the death rate, accompanied with allegedly a lot of elderly people protected from it? The only thing that comes to mind is states lied and underreported the deaths.
So I plugged a few numbers in a spreadsheet and found something, well, odd.
Last month
April 27: 32.88 million cases, 586,900 deaths
May 27: 33.97 million cases, 606,200 deaths
Deltas on these give us 1.09 million cases and 19,300 deaths.
January 2021 (AKA a bit after America stopped giving a fuck)
January 1: 20.812 million cases, 364,200 deaths
January 31: 26.87 million cases, 461,300 deaths
Deltas here, 6.06 million cases, 97,100 deaths
Just to triple check:
October 2020 (AKA right before America will stop giving a fuck)
January 1: 7.61 million cases, 214,100 deaths
January 31: 9.52 million cases, 237,800 deaths
Deltas here, 1.91 million cases, 23,700 deaths
So, the maths confirmed my suspicion of the charts. The death rate isn't dropping, in fact, it is increasing.
October 2020 Death Rate 1.24%
January 2021 Death Rate 1.60%
April/May 2021 Death Rate 1.77%
Can someone please show me the math where I'm screwing up somewhere? How in the heck can the death rate be higher now... with 75% of elderly people immunized. 4 in 5 deaths were people 85 or older (or somewhere along those lines).
One thing I can think of is that the confirmed cases are higher than reported and people just aren't getting tested anymore, providing an illusion of a death rate increase. But an increase of 40% in the death rate, accompanied with allegedly a lot of elderly people protected from it? The only thing that comes to mind is states lied and underreported the deaths.
I think it's some of both. The covidiots consider it just the flu, they're not going to get tested unless it's bad enough to send them to the hospital or unless a test is somehow mandated. The red states are also the ones trying to cover up Covid deaths.
blastula
Contributor
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Excellent interview with epidemiologist Michael Osterholm who provides great info on a range of questions.
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-OQ14dih0A[/YOUTUBE]
Also by podcast here, starting at 17 minutes.
The Majority Report — 7/19 The State of the Virus w/ Dr. Michael Osterholm
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-OQ14dih0A[/YOUTUBE]
Also by podcast here, starting at 17 minutes.
The Majority Report — 7/19 The State of the Virus w/ Dr. Michael Osterholm
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Given the level of rejection of the vaccine and the rise in cases in states with low vaccination rates this will drag on for a long time.
Maybe natural selection will kick in and deselect the idiots.
Maybe natural selection will kick in and deselect the idiots.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Guns, Germs, Steel and Stupid
Unfortunately, doing an awful lot of damage in the process.
George S
Veteran Member
I ran across this public session. https://tv.gab.com/channel/standonp...tire-covid-narrative-611132777b022aa59dd65777 This doctor's claim is that the summer infection growth (which never happens) is directly caused by vaccination. He also claims his treating patients (too few to be statistically significant) with ivermectin, vitamin D and zinc has been effective without a single hospitalization.
<rant> Why isn't everyone on the same page? Could this one guy be right? He's surely confident.</rant>
<rant> Why isn't everyone on the same page? Could this one guy be right? He's surely confident.</rant>