Covid-19 miscellany

[TomC]

Lack of a flat mandate will have and does have all sorts of ugly side effects, most notably disease that, in its most innocuous, causes sufficient illness that people usually need to stay at home (and sometimes are compelled to work anyway), with whatever associated economic loss that indicates, undue burdens on health care systems and health care personnel, and hospitalization, and death, sometimes leaving children orphaned or families without their main breadwinner and now dependent on those bozos in the government you do disdain.

We're talking about very different sorts of side effects.

What I'm talking about includes violence in the streets and insurrection. A flood of money into Republican candidates campaign war chests. A big influx of Republicans into government, from local to Capitol Hill. Booting Biden out of the White House, whether by an act of Congress or the 2024 election. Replacing him with someone as fascist as Trump, but smarter and more effective.

You might not think this plausible, but lots of people thought Hillary was a shoe in candidate in 2016. Look what happened there.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

That is one of the most disingenuous bullshit statements from the anti-vax movement. Vaccines work because they are mandated for fuck sakes. HERD FUCKING IMMUNITY! This isn't Shingles!

This is poorly phrased to be charitable about it. And, frankly, I share @Metaphor low opinion of government mandates.

I don't want to make this about me, but I didn't say here or anywhere I categorically don't agree with, or am predisposed against, government mandates as a concept. It's a fantasia manufactured from whole cloth from people who want me to be angry about water flouridation.

I don't trust the bozos in government with that kind of power. There's a huge grey area between forcible vaccination and nothing.
I'd be fine with the government backing up private entities imposing policies and restrictions. From stores to venues to employers, to hospitals, they have to balance various competing goals. The government doesn't, at least not much.

And I'm confident that a flat mandate will have all kinds of ugly side effects. "Fuck you, you can't boss me around" is still a very common attitude in this country. I'd rather just make life more convenient for the vaccinated. Then people choose the vaccination.

My partner's employer handled it very well, I think. They clamped down hard in the beginning. Both masks and clear plastic face shields required inside the plant. They slowly started lifting restrictions, and once vaccination was widely available removed even the mask policy for the completely vaccinated. That worked very well.

Tom

 

[bilby]

We have no idea if this is an opinion piece by some rando or what.

It’s from the Australian.com.au, an Aussie paper that calls itself (as most extreme right wing pubs do) “center-right”. The article is behind a paywall here, but if you ante up they’ll give you a free subscription to the once-respected Wall Street Gerbil, now a relatively muted mouthpiece of the GQP.

It's notable that The Australian doesn't include Australian lockdowns in their preferred analysis, as these would contradict the conclusion they wish to draw.

This entire article is likely part of a local political campaign by the right wing press to persuade Australian voters that our incompetent Prime Minister (who must very shortly call an election), and his political party, weren't hugely and obviously wrong in every aspect of their handling of the pandemic.

They were, though. So they're forced to pretend that data from the half-arsed lockdowns in the US and Europe are relevant, while ignoring the highly effective lockdowns in Australian states governed by their political opponents.

It's not relevant information for the Australian situation; And it's even less relevant to the USA. But propaganda no longer gets contained within national borders (which is one reason why our PM has fucked up so badly - he was consuming propaganda intended for US audiences).

 

[Metaphor]

It's notable that The Australian doesn't include Australian lockdowns in their preferred analysis, as these would contradict the conclusion they wish to draw.

I have not seen the article in question, given the paywall, but Melbourne was the most locked-down city in the world at the same time it had the highest COVID cases in Australia.

They were, though. So they're forced to pretend that data from the half-arsed lockdowns in the US and Europe are relevant, while ignoring the highly effective lockdowns in Australian states governed by their political opponents.

Um, what?

 

[Metaphor]

It's not relevant information for the Australian situation;

Um, what? Are you suggesting COVID behaves differently enough in Australia that lockdowns have a different meaning here?

 

[Elixir]

Deliberately obtuse, much?
People (government, citizens) behave differently. Obey lockdowns, wear masks, get the jab… more than ‘Murkins.

 

[Metaphor]

Deliberately obtuse, much?
People (government, citizens) behave differently. Obey lockdowns, wear masks, get the jab… more than ‘Murkins.

Elixir, somebody who has a different perspective or opinion to you does not make them deliberately obtuse.

 

[Elixir]

Your views have nothing to do with my observation. It’s the failure to acknowledge what others say, pretending to think they have evinced absurdities.

 

[Metaphor]

Your views have nothing to do with my observation. It’s the failure to acknowledge what others say, pretending to think they have evinced absurdities.

You did claim an absurdity, and what's more, I'm sure it's an absurdity you would abandon in a second in certain circumstances.

For example, if social distancing in schools had been shown to decrease school-related COVID outbreaks in Australia, I doubt for one second you'd say 'that is no reason to think it would work elsewhere'.

 

[ZiprHead]

I have not seen the article in question, given the paywall, but Melbourne was the most locked-down city in the world at the same time it had the highest COVID cases in Australia.

I'll let you think for a minute about what you just said.

 

[repoman]

Does anyone here have first hand knowledge of blood thinner use, heparin, plavix etc... with an active covid infection or immediate aftermath?

 

[TomC]

It's not relevant information for the Australian situation;

Um, what? Are you suggesting COVID behaves differently enough in Australia that lockdowns have a different meaning here?

I don't know enough to know how true it is. But

It's notable that The Australian doesn't include Australian lockdowns in their preferred analysis, as these would contradict the conclusion they wish to draw.

isn't hard to understand.
Unless you just prefer not to understand.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

I have not seen the article in question, given the paywall, but Melbourne was the most locked-down city in the world at the same time it had the highest COVID cases in Australia.

I'll let you think for a minute about what you just said.

I've thought about it a lot more than you have, I imagine.

Melbourne was the most locked down city in the world, and the entire time it was locked down, it continued to have more COVID cases without any reduction, than anywhere else in Australia, including other capital cities with no lockdown.

 

[Metaphor]

It's not relevant information for the Australian situation;

Um, what? Are you suggesting COVID behaves differently enough in Australia that lockdowns have a different meaning here?

I don't know enough to know how true it is. But

It's notable that The Australian doesn't include Australian lockdowns in their preferred analysis, as these would contradict the conclusion they wish to draw.

isn't hard to understand.
Unless you just prefer not to understand.
Tom

I can't access the article, but since the article is almost certainly reporting a study that The Australian itself did not conduct, it can't include things that were not included in the study

 

[ZiprHead]

I have not seen the article in question, given the paywall, but Melbourne was the most locked-down city in the world at the same time it had the highest COVID cases in Australia.

I'll let you think for a minute about what you just said.

I've thought about it a lot more than you have, I imagine.

Melbourne was the most locked down city in the world, and the entire time it was locked down, it continued to have more COVID cases without any reduction, than anywhere else in Australia, including other capital cities with no lockdown.

Which occurred first, the covid cases or the lockdown?

 

[TomC]

I can't access the article, but since the article is almost certainly reporting a study that The Australian itself did not conduct, it can't include things that were not included in the study

I don't know why The Australian would bother posting an article irrelevant to Australia either. According to bilby they did. And he gave a plausible explanation for that.
I don't see anything difficult about this.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

I can't access the article, but since the article is almost certainly reporting a study that The Australian itself did not conduct, it can't include things that were not included in the study

I don't know why The Australian would bother posting an article irrelevant to Australia either. According to bilby they did. And he gave a plausible explanation for that.
I don't see anything difficult about this.
Tom

What suggests the article was irrelevant to Australia? That it spoke about COVID in other countries?

You know how disease works, right?

Do you think the WHO is irrelevant to Australia?

 

[Metaphor]

I have not seen the article in question, given the paywall, but Melbourne was the most locked-down city in the world at the same time it had the highest COVID cases in Australia.

I'll let you think for a minute about what you just said.

I've thought about it a lot more than you have, I imagine.

Melbourne was the most locked down city in the world, and the entire time it was locked down, it continued to have more COVID cases without any reduction, than anywhere else in Australia, including other capital cities with no lockdown.

Which occurred first, the covid cases or the lockdown?

Cases, then extended lockdown, for months, where daily/weekly cases either continued at the same level or increased.

 

[ZiprHead]

I have not seen the article in question, given the paywall, but Melbourne was the most locked-down city in the world at the same time it had the highest COVID cases in Australia.

I'll let you think for a minute about what you just said.

I've thought about it a lot more than you have, I imagine.

Melbourne was the most locked down city in the world, and the entire time it was locked down, it continued to have more COVID cases without any reduction, than anywhere else in Australia, including other capital cities with no lockdown.

Which occurred first, the covid cases or the lockdown?

Cases, then extended lockdown, for months, where daily/weekly cases either continued at the same level or increased.

So how did this lockdown fare in success against cities that did not lock down?

 

[Metaphor]

I have not seen the article in question, given the paywall, but Melbourne was the most locked-down city in the world at the same time it had the highest COVID cases in Australia.

I'll let you think for a minute about what you just said.

I've thought about it a lot more than you have, I imagine.

Melbourne was the most locked down city in the world, and the entire time it was locked down, it continued to have more COVID cases without any reduction, than anywhere else in Australia, including other capital cities with no lockdown.

Which occurred first, the covid cases or the lockdown?

Cases, then extended lockdown, for months, where daily/weekly cases either continued at the same level or increased.

So how did this lockdown fare in success against cities that did not lock down?

Well, as I already said above, other Australian cities did not have a lockdown and posted a fraction of the cases that Melbourne did during the same time period.