You mean the idiots protesting for opening things up while in a mall that was open? At least until the protesters disrupted it to the point it closed, that is.
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- Thread starter blastula
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You mean the idiots protesting for opening things up while in a mall that was open? At least until the protesters disrupted it to the point it closed, that is.
DrZoidberg
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Loren Pechtel is talking about a Chinese lab having animals carrying the virus from where the virus escaped somehow. This wouldn't be much of a story since one of the main jobs virologists do is to gather animals in the wild to study their viruses. They do this all the time. Especially bats. Its slightly embarrassing for China since they had something of scientific significance that they failed to accurately identify, that they then let escape, lost or worse somehow spread it to humans in the lab. But it's only embarrassing. There's nothing malicious about it.
What Fauci (And Trump) is talking about an artificial virus created by the Chinese in a lab that escaped. That's just fake news.
If the Chinese Wuhan researchers would have known what they had we'd know about it. That Wuhan lab isn't a military installation. It's overrun by foreign researchers and has been all the time. Findings are shared and published all the time. There's high transparency. They couldn't have hid this they wanted to. Since the foreign researchers didn't know about the virus it means that the Chinese researchers didn't know about it either. It'd be unthinkable that a Chinese researcher found another SARS virus and after being sure that's what it was didn't immediately broadcast it to the world. Being the first of something like this would give the researcher, the lab and China prestige. It would also give the rest of the world time to do the basic research necessary to speed up the production of a future vaccine. Since it was found in China, the Chinese authorities would love to get all the help they could get from the international community. There's zero reason for the Chinese government to sit on this after being sure they have correctly identified it .
The only reason the Chinese government would have to suppress the news of this is if a big announcement of a new scary virus, that may or may not really be dangerous risks threatening the Chinese economy. So the Chinese virologists are going to check whatever viruses they find, a couple of extra times before announcing it. They would only make the announcement if they were super super sure. Which also, hypothetically, will give the virus time to escape. This all makes perfect sense and isn't anything to get upset about. This isn't news.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Well, if you say "all they were doing was studying the virus" then of course it isn't a big story. On the other hand, the current phrase worth blocking on social media is "gain of function".
If this facility was working on bio-weapons, then we must spend some time looking at who helped the Chinese develop that facility.
There is a great effort to say the Chinese Government didn't do nothing wrong. Based on how badly they treat their people on a good day, it isn't very credible to assume their hands are clean on the Wuhan Corona virus.
If this facility was working on bio-weapons, then we must spend some time looking at who helped the Chinese develop that facility.
There is a great effort to say the Chinese Government didn't do nothing wrong. Based on how badly they treat their people on a good day, it isn't very credible to assume their hands are clean on the Wuhan Corona virus.
Exactly. Lab fuckup != biological warfare.
Disagree--finding a new virus would have been only of minor scientific interest. There are a gazillion viruses out there and most of them don't infect humans or don't do harm if they do. Thus seeing something similar to SARS is of interest to figuring out more about SARS but isn't an indication of impending doom. Until human cases showed up they wouldn't know they were dealing with something deadly. They would also have no reason to do it all in a rush--they would learn what they could about it and publish a paper. You don't test unknown viruses on humans, they would have no reason to realize they were holding the next pandemic.
No reason to think it is a scary virus until things blew up in Wuhan.
Gain of function is remotely possible but I think Beijing would have reacted faster if it was--somebody would have realized what was going on and said something. When your run-of-the-mill doctor says SARS is back it looks like somebody being stupid. When a top virologist (Wuhan is a level 4 lab--their top people will be there) says "watch out!" it's quite another matter.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
When something goes wrong in a system such as the one China has, the person who finds it must then report to their supervisor. That person must report to HIS supervisor. That person must report to his supervisor. And so on.
Each level up above the initial person and the initial supervisor takes longer to accomplish. That's the nature of well-organized fascism like they have in communist China. I can easily see it taking at least a month before the first "uh-oh" results in a decision filtering back down through all the layers.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Ok. I'll buy that version of events. But doesn't explain why China would sit on a known SARS virus and not publish the result. Like you said, publishing a new virus is not a big deal. So why didn't they?
TV and credit cards
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Consider cultural differences. I’m sure anything their scientific community wants to publish gets politically screened. My understand is “face” is very important in the Chinese culture.
Jimmy Higgins
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Yeah. "Huge" suffers from fallacies of being both hyperbole and then argument via aggregate. A lot of people think what I think and went outside and held signs, therefore I'm right. I don't recall TSwizzle being swayed by the George Floyd protests.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Hm... The scientific community still is what it is. It has it's own culture which is an International culture. Also Wang Yanyi is a giant in the virology community. She's the director the Wuhan Virology institute. According to my sources she's such a heavy weight name in the industry that she is the only person in China who can order Xi Jinping around. This is due to the SARS epidemic. This lab was specifically set up in order to combat any potential return of the SARS. This lab wasn't situated in Wuhan by accident. They knew it was the most likely place for a zoonotic Coronavirus to jump to a human host. She's also managed to convince the Chinese government to allow the Wuhan institute to be open and transparent. The large number of foreign researchr
In the eventuality of a viral pandemic she's basically been given a free pass by Xi Jinping to do whatever she needs to do and he doesn't get involved. She's got an extremely good reputation Internationally, in the virology community, as well as in China. Outside it.
Which makes this whole idea of some sort of bioweapon or conspiracy very unlikely imho
It didn't take long for the uh-oh of arresting the guy who sounded the alarm to get to Beijing and get corrected. I think the alarm from one of their top people would get to the top even faster.
If they were studying it the world probably blew up before the paper was ready for publication. After the world blew up they certainly wouldn't be allowed to publish.
TV and credit cards
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So Ohio has entered its masked/unmasked phase. I thought most would simply discard their masks over the weekend, irregardless. Such has not been the case. Fully half are still wearing them.
I fear my plan of watching the Republican voter rolls being purged may not be realized. But it is early.
I fear my plan of watching the Republican voter rolls being purged may not be realized. But it is early.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Which was my original theory. Yes, I think this is the most probable explanation. OR the Chinese lab story is false all together.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Masking has become a cultural artifact. Among the middle class wearing a mask is virtue signaling. It's a cheap way to show that you care. Among the working class wearing a mask signals that you are sheeple.
Sweden never had masking rules. Instead the government recommended using masks. But they never forced anybody to use them. Only the middle-class ever adopted using them. When visiting Sweden last year it was striking how in some areas of Stockholm masks were common and in others nowhere to be seen.
I think the masks are here to stay, way beyond Covid going away. They're more than just Covid prevention now. It's war.
Jimmy Higgins
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Akron Zoo about 75+% weren't wearing masks. It seemed 50-50 at a store I went to.
The funny thing is the people wearing the masks are most likely immunized. Part of me wants to wear a mask while employees are still required to at these places. Not masked at my place of employment though.
Jimmy Higgins
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Man, you are so comfortable speaking for everyone else.
And it didn't work out too well.
Not really. That'd be the partisan bullshit right-wingers have been selling for almost a year now. America is so close to being done with Covid-19 (for a while), but there are a bunch of people that refuse to get immunized. We could have reached herd immunity by July! Then the masks are off and we are cautious, but able to do stuff. But no. So we go into summer needlessly less prepared than we should be. It utterly pathetic.
TSwizzle
I am unburdened by what has been.
It's not clear what the obsession with the mask is but it's obviously not about "the science and data". Well, here in California at least.
It's a weird fetish for some, an irrational obsession for others.
Jimmy Higgins
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Looking at the CDC numbers on vaccinations. As would be expected in this sad and pathetic nation, red states have managed to fall behind on vaccinations, for whatever reason.
Of those 18+:
- blue states are between 43.5% and 63.8% vaccinated, with an average of 55%
- red states are between 32% and 51.8% vaccinated, with an average of 42%
It seems quite something that only 15 states are above 4 in 5 vaccinated for 65+.
The good news is that the red states are lagging, but not criminally lagging behind. However, there are no blue states that are below the average vaccinated in red states. Nor are there any red states vaccinated at a rate above the blue average. 10 red states are below 40%, 2 are below 35%, ie 2 in 3 are not vaccinated.
Of those 65+:
- blue states are between 70.9% and 91.4% vaccinated, with an average of 80%
- red states are between 59.6% and 84.2% vaccinated, with an average of 72%
So less of a lag here, with three red states batting better than the blue state average.
Of those 18+:
- blue states are between 43.5% and 63.8% vaccinated, with an average of 55%
- red states are between 32% and 51.8% vaccinated, with an average of 42%
It seems quite something that only 15 states are above 4 in 5 vaccinated for 65+.
The good news is that the red states are lagging, but not criminally lagging behind. However, there are no blue states that are below the average vaccinated in red states. Nor are there any red states vaccinated at a rate above the blue average. 10 red states are below 40%, 2 are below 35%, ie 2 in 3 are not vaccinated.
Of those 65+:
- blue states are between 70.9% and 91.4% vaccinated, with an average of 80%
- red states are between 59.6% and 84.2% vaccinated, with an average of 72%
So less of a lag here, with three red states batting better than the blue state average.
TV and credit cards
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Meanwhile at The Old Hippie Grocery, most were masked, easily 80%. All social and political theories aside, After a year of wearing masks, I think people are just apprehensive about removing them.
Jimmy Higgins
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Stores ask that if you've not been vaccinated to wear a mask. People under 12 have not. That includes my daughter. Gonna make my daughter wear one, but not me? Of course, I don't see stores booting unmasked children out.
This could have been simple.
This could have been simple.