Covid-19 miscellany

[repoman]

Ok, here is one on paper plausible but not really assertion:

"If Ivermectin were proven to be an effective treatment for Covid-19, then the vaccines could not have been granted emergency use authorization in the U.S."

Separate from whether Ivermectin works to any moderate to strong degree or even whether there may be corrupt shenanigans with the WHO not recommending ivermectin.

Yes the WHO has no hard authority but in reality they have immense sway.


But on the other hand, if ivermectin was proven to be fairly effective (in US clinical trials, because fuck other countries) even for stopping spread and major illness of the infected would this put a brake on people wanting to get a vaccine?

I think ivermectin has a good chance of being a strong treatment but still got vaccinated.

 

[barbos]

My personal suspicion is that the version that blew up Wuhan is actually a variant of something with a considerably lower R0 that was already spreading.

And the fact that it happened in Wuhan is a concidence?

Not a terribly unlikely coincidence. It’s a large city with 11M people. Most large cities have some kind of biologic lab in or near them. So wherever a lab exists, a large population also exists and is therefore a likely place for some mutation to emerge and spread widely.

Not many cities in the world have Chinese virology lab in them.
Even in China it's pretty rare, in fact it could be just that one lab.

Again, the lab was there because the damn bats live in nearby caves. They were studying corona-viruses. Then outbreak happens. People said OK, just look at the bats if they have something similar. They looked and found nothing similar enough to claim it to be the source. They looked at other intermediate animals - nothing. Wet market theory was put out by chinese government and subsequently debunked by independent studies. What is left? The damn lab is left, and there is no access to it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

link

This is looking good.

Both reports looked at people who had been exposed to the coronavirus about a year earlier. Cells that retain a memory of the virus persist in the bone marrow and may churn out antibodies whenever needed, according to one of the studies, published on Monday in the journal Nature.

The other study, posted online at BioRxiv, a site for biology research, found that these so-called memory B cells continue to mature and strengthen for at least 12 months after the initial infection.

“The papers are consistent with the growing body of literature that suggests that immunity elicited by infection and vaccination for SARS-CoV-2 appears to be long-lived,” said Scott Hensley, an immunologist at the University of Pennsylvania who was not involved in the research.

The studies may soothe fears that immunity to the virus is transient, as is the case with coronaviruses that cause common colds. But those viruses change significantly every few years, Dr. Hensley said. “The reason we get infected with common coronaviruses repetitively throughout life might have much more to do with variation of these viruses rather than immunity,” he said.

 

[TomC]

They looked at other intermediate animals - nothing. Wet market theory was put out by chinese government and subsequently debunked by independent studies. What is left? The damn lab is left, and there is no access to it.

This is interesting, but unimportant. The evidence points strongly to a mishap in that lab. But that's not the real cause of the problem.

The real problem is jet travel. A small handful of people could be infected with something new. During the incubation period, they can be flying all around the globe spreading the virus in airports anywhere and everywhere. A virus can easily spread from anywhere to every air travel hub on planet earth before anyone even knows it exists.

C19 is bad. But imagine a virus as easily spread as C19 but with the incubation period and effects of AIDS.

Tom

 

[barbos]

They looked at other intermediate animals - nothing. Wet market theory was put out by chinese government and subsequently debunked by independent studies. What is left? The damn lab is left, and there is no access to it.

This is interesting, but unimportant. The evidence points strongly to a mishap in that lab. But that's not the real cause of the problem.

Actually, we don't know whether or not it's unimportant and what is and what is not a problem.
It's conceivable that what we have here is a result of chinese doing insane experiments with less than insane precautions. Chinese are known for that.
I think it's important for the World to not have such a mishap in the future.

The real problem is jet travel. A small handful of people could be infected with something new. During the incubation period, they can be flying all around the globe spreading the virus in airports anywhere and everywhere. A virus can easily spread from anywhere to every air travel hub on planet earth before anyone even knows it exists.

C19 is bad. But imagine a virus as easily spread as C19 but with the incubation period and effects of AIDS.

Tom

I can imagine, ban of air travel would make no difference. it will spread over all Eurasia and than all over the world through sea transport.

 

[bilby]

If pandemics were a result of air travel, then 1348 would have been a great year to be alive.

 

[TomC]

If pandemics were a result of air travel, then 1348 would have been a great year to be alive.

How eurocentric of you.

Most people on the planet didn't have a problem. It was mainly the Europeans with their newfangled transportation technology.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If pandemics were a result of air travel, then 1348 would have been a great year to be alive.

World War Z?

 

[bilby]

If pandemics were a result of air travel, then 1348 would have been a great year to be alive.

How eurocentric of you.

Most people on the planet didn't have a problem. It was mainly the Europeans with their newfangled transportation technology.
Tom

Most people on the planet very definitely had a problem. The Americas and Australasia were the only continents not affected, and population levels in all three of those continents were dwarfed by the populations of Asia, Africa and Europe.

And transportation in the fourteenth century wasn't dramatically different from how it had been for a thousand years - before which travel had been far easier in Europe and North Africa for about seven hundred years. There were few new technologies or trade routes until the seventeenth century; Certainly Europe didn't return to Roman Imperial levels of travel and trade until the mid C17th.

Medieval European transportation and trade wasn't dramatically different from that of the Bronze and Iron ages. A much more significant factor in epidemiological terms was the larger population, and particularly the larger urban population.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Yesterday it was announced with big fanfare that my age group (if the rest of Swedes) was eligible for vaccination in Malmö starting yesterday at 19.00. When trying to book a time I was informed about local restrictions. If I'd lived in Stockholm I could have gotten it yesterday. But since I don't, I will need to wait longer. South Sweden (Skåne) have their own regional way of organizing it that goes against the grand plan of Sweden. Gah... Sweden. Such a fucking shit show of a country when it comes to Covid-19. What makes it extra frustrating is that I live in Denmark, who are handling this situation very well. At every turn they've done the right thing all the time.

So I will need to wait longer

 

[lpetrich]

Timeline: How the Wuhan lab-leak theory suddenly became credible - The Washington Post

The source of the coronavirus that has left more than 3 million people dead around the world remains a mystery. But in recent months the idea that it emerged from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) — once dismissed as a ridiculous conspiracy theory — has gained new credence.

How and why did this happen? For one, efforts to discover a natural source of the virus have failed. Second, early efforts to spotlight a lab leak often got mixed up with speculation that the virus was deliberately created as a bioweapon. That made it easier for many scientists to dismiss the lab scenario as tin-hat nonsense. But a lack of transparency by China and renewed attention to the activities of the Wuhan lab have led some scientists to say they were too quick to discount a possible link at first.

Interesting. This raises the question of what the lab was doing with the virus.

 

[untermensche]

If China is responsible then all the lies Trump told are not changed.

And the effect of those Trump lies is still the same.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Timeline: How the Wuhan lab-leak theory suddenly became credible - The Washington Post

The source of the coronavirus that has left more than 3 million people dead around the world remains a mystery. But in recent months the idea that it emerged from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) — once dismissed as a ridiculous conspiracy theory — has gained new credence.

How and why did this happen? For one, efforts to discover a natural source of the virus have failed. Second, early efforts to spotlight a lab leak often got mixed up with speculation that the virus was deliberately created as a bioweapon. That made it easier for many scientists to dismiss the lab scenario as tin-hat nonsense. But a lack of transparency by China and renewed attention to the activities of the Wuhan lab have led some scientists to say they were too quick to discount a possible link at first.

Interesting. This raises the question of what the lab was doing with the virus.

We don't have the technology yet to create an artificial virus to look exactly like a bat virus. Every technology we have to artificially manipulate viruses would give traces easy enough for any geneticist to identify. We have none of that.

China's lack of transparency isn't any more evidence of a lab escape than our inability to see God is evidence of that God works in mysterious ways.

It could have been in circulation outside of bats for hundreds of years in a variety of species before it came to pangolins and then humans. The source bat population could have gone extinct long ago.

I call complete bullshit on this story. It's the weaving of a narrative based on pure speculation.

It's click bait IMHO.

 

[TSwizzle]

In a bid to stave off his impending recall, California governor Gavin Newsom has taken the route of offering cash for getting vaccinated;

California is giving away the country’s largest pot of vaccine prize money — $116.5 million — in an attempt to get millions more inoculated before the most populous state fully reopens next month. Gov. Gavin Newsom on Thursday announced the prizes, which include $1.5 million each for 10 Californians, the largest single award offered in any state. The goal is to motivate roughly 12 million people who are eligible but not yet vaccinated, though the more than 20 million Californians already partially or fully vaccinated also are in the running for the most valuable prizes.

AP

$116.5m is lot of tax money to be giving away.

 

[bilby]

In a bid to stave off his impending recall, California governor Gavin Newsom has taken the route of offering cash for getting vaccinated;

California is giving away the country’s largest pot of vaccine prize money — $116.5 million — in an attempt to get millions more inoculated before the most populous state fully reopens next month. Gov. Gavin Newsom on Thursday announced the prizes, which include $1.5 million each for 10 Californians, the largest single award offered in any state. The goal is to motivate roughly 12 million people who are eligible but not yet vaccinated, though the more than 20 million Californians already partially or fully vaccinated also are in the running for the most valuable prizes.

AP

$116.5m is lot of tax money to be giving away back.

FTFY.

 

[TomC]

In a bid to stave off his impending recall, California governor Gavin Newsom has taken the route of offering cash for getting vaccinated;

California is giving away the country’s largest pot of vaccine prize money — $116.5 million — in an attempt to get millions more inoculated before the most populous state fully reopens next month. Gov. Gavin Newsom on Thursday announced the prizes, which include $1.5 million each for 10 Californians, the largest single award offered in any state. The goal is to motivate roughly 12 million people who are eligible but not yet vaccinated, though the more than 20 million Californians already partially or fully vaccinated also are in the running for the most valuable prizes.

AP

$116.5m is lot of tax money to be giving away.

Isn't that a little less than 10% of the taxpayer dollars Trump used to buy back the voters in soy bean farming regions when Trump's trade war with China failed?
Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

In a bid to stave off his impending recall, California governor Gavin Newsom has taken the route of offering cash for getting vaccinated;

You are assuming a motivation that is superfluous. It might be true, sure, but other states are already doing this. So even if he weren't in political trouble, he'd do a lottery. Are you trying to say he's making the numbers even higher because he's in political trouble? How would that help him since his opposition is calling out absolutely everything he does? It's like "See, he did a press interview at a school!! That proves it!!!111!"

California is giving away the country’s largest pot of vaccine prize money — $116.5 million — in an attempt to get millions more inoculated before the most populous state fully reopens next month. Gov. Gavin Newsom on Thursday announced the prizes, which include $1.5 million each for 10 Californians, the largest single award offered in any state. The goal is to motivate roughly 12 million people who are eligible but not yet vaccinated, though the more than 20 million Californians already partially or fully vaccinated also are in the running for the most valuable prizes.

AP

$116.5m is lot of tax money to be giving away.

I agree, but how much money is being saved long-term by having people get vaccinated (or finish their second dose) who wouldn't have done it without this incentive? Are there any financial projections? Also, how many lives does it save in the long term? Are there projections of that?

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[ZiprHead]

Fox Guest Blames Vaccination for Shootings

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Yesterday it was announced with big fanfare that my age group (if the rest of Swedes) was eligible for vaccination in Malmö starting yesterday at 19.00. When trying to book a time I was informed about local restrictions. If I'd lived in Stockholm I could have gotten it yesterday. But since I don't, I will need to wait longer. South Sweden (Skåne) have their own regional way of organizing it that goes against the grand plan of Sweden. Gah... Sweden. Such a fucking shit show of a country when it comes to Covid-19. What makes it extra frustrating is that I live in Denmark, who are handling this situation very well. At every turn they've done the right thing all the time.

So I will need to wait longer

I hear you.

Over here, I don't know when I'm going to be eligible, due to the government's ineptitude. With some luck, next year. I'll probably get natural immunity first at this rate.

Meanwhile, the president says that Pfizer demanded unacceptable conditions, so he declined. As a result, even though Argentina was home to the largest Pfizer trial in the world and for that reason it had priority for millions of doses, it got zero. Who knows how many deaths happened because he did not accept the so-called unacceptable conditions. Probably thousands. But no remorse, but just accusations against Pfizer.