Covid-19 miscellany

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't consider a vaccine, raced through testing by politicians like Trump, a good risk to me. Maybe later. In the meantime, I'll leave the vaccines(which are in short supply) for people who have a different risk assessment for themselves. Teachers, doctors, first responders, whatever, they can better get their choice if I forego a vaccine.
Tom

I would have been very, very leery of anything approved under His Flatulence's watch, but I don't see that that's what's happened--this was approved only after the election and it has been approved in several places that aren't subject to His Flatulence's control.

I'd get it today if they would give it to me, but I'm not that high on the list. My wife is going to get her first shot tomorrow.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Uh ... 17+ years is hardly a "rush".
As long as you don't mind taking the word of Captain Kangaroo about it...

The sad thing is that, just like he said, the virology community knew that a new SARS virus would emerge at some point and while there was some study on it. Very little. Time and time again SARS-vaccine projects were cancelled due to lacking funding. If we'd only listened to the scientific community we'd have had a Covid-19 vaccine ready in advance on shelves even before Covid-19 emerged. A general vaccine for all Coronaviruses. But we were stupid and shortsighted and waited until it was a disaster before funding it. This is partly what Gates speech in 2015 was about. The speech QAnon uses as proof of his part in a conspiracy. But Gates didn't say anything that the scientific community didn't know already.

So sure, we've studied it for 17 years. But very little. Not nearly as much as we should have

 

[bilby]

Uh ... 17+ years is hardly a "rush".
As long as you don't mind taking the word of Captain Kangaroo about it...

The sad thing is that, just like he said, the virology community knew that a new SARS virus would emerge at some point and while there was some study on it. Very little. Time and time again SARS-vaccine projects were cancelled due to lacking funding. If we'd only listened to the scientific community we'd have had a Covid-19 vaccine ready in advance on shelves even before Covid-19 emerged. A general vaccine for all Coronaviruses. But we were stupid and shortsighted and waited until it was a disaster before funding it. This is partly what Gates speech in 2015 was about. The speech QAnon uses as proof of his part in a conspiracy. But Gates didn't say anything that the scientific community didn't know already.

So sure, we've studied it for 17 years. But very little. Not nearly as much as we should have

But that's as it must be. Resources are limited, so before their use is critically urgent, they must be spread thin.

If we were in the process of deflecting an asteroid that would wipe out all life on Earth, you would be making a similar argument that we should have spent more on planetary defence research. But if we had spent all the research resources on asteroid detecting and deflecting, we would be completely fucked by a fatal coronavirus. And if we had directed all our efforts into eliminating coronaviradae as threats, we would be completely fucked when a near Earth object suddenly vaporised most of the Pacific Ocean.

The only viable strategy is to cast a wide net in times of comfortable absence of existential threat, to build a network of expertise that can be concentrated against actual threats when they emerge.

The President of Planet Earth needs to be able to respond to ANY threat, however unexpected or unusual, by saying "Bring me the leading experts on <insert threat here>!", and not have his staff say "Sorry, Sir, but there are no experts on <threat>, we put all our research dollars into <predictable but different threat that didn't have a chance to materialise before threat came along>".

 

[crazyfingers]

and it has been approved in several places that aren't subject to His Flatulence's control.

That was key for me and my wife. Would not take anything not also approved in Canada, UK and Germany (EU)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Uh ... 17+ years is hardly a "rush".
As long as you don't mind taking the word of Captain Kangaroo about it...

The sad thing is that, just like he said, the virology community knew that a new SARS virus would emerge at some point and while there was some study on it. Very little. Time and time again SARS-vaccine projects were cancelled due to lacking funding. If we'd only listened to the scientific community we'd have had a Covid-19 vaccine ready in advance on shelves even before Covid-19 emerged. A general vaccine for all Coronaviruses. But we were stupid and shortsighted and waited until it was a disaster before funding it. This is partly what Gates speech in 2015 was about. The speech QAnon uses as proof of his part in a conspiracy. But Gates didn't say anything that the scientific community didn't know already.

So sure, we've studied it for 17 years. But very little. Not nearly as much as we should have

We couldn't have had a Covid vaccine ready before we saw it. SARS vaccine research was taken to the point before human trials and lacking any cases it couldn't possibly go past phase 1 trials at that point and there was little reason to even go that far. When Covid came along it took 2 days to make the first vaccine--the SARS prototype with a bit of different mRNA pasted in. Where's the failing?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I don't consider a vaccine, raced through testing by politicians like Trump, a good risk to me. Maybe later. In the meantime, I'll leave the vaccines(which are in short supply) for people who have a different risk assessment for themselves. Teachers, doctors, first responders, whatever, they can better get their choice if I forego a vaccine.
Tom

I would have been very, very leery of anything approved under His Flatulence's watch, but I don't see that that's what's happened--this was approved only after the election and it has been approved in several places that aren't subject to His Flatulence's control.

I'd get it today if they would give it to me, but I'm not that high on the list. My wife is going to get her first shot tomorrow.

Skeptics are free to move to Tanzania which is a covid free country. There's no covid there, only cases of poor nutrition, hypertension, and not enough steam bathing. It's a covid free paradise, quite amazing. I'm surprised republicans aren't flocking to that country for their vegetable smoothies.

 

[Jarhyn]

Uh ... 17+ years is hardly a "rush".
As long as you don't mind taking the word of Captain Kangaroo about it...

The sad thing is that, just like he said, the virology community knew that a new SARS virus would emerge at some point and while there was some study on it. Very little. Time and time again SARS-vaccine projects were cancelled due to lacking funding. If we'd only listened to the scientific community we'd have had a Covid-19 vaccine ready in advance on shelves even before Covid-19 emerged. A general vaccine for all Coronaviruses. But we were stupid and shortsighted and waited until it was a disaster before funding it. This is partly what Gates speech in 2015 was about. The speech QAnon uses as proof of his part in a conspiracy. But Gates didn't say anything that the scientific community didn't know already.

So sure, we've studied it for 17 years. But very little. Not nearly as much as we should have

We couldn't have had a Covid vaccine ready before we saw it. SARS vaccine research was taken to the point before human trials and lacking any cases it couldn't possibly go past phase 1 trials at that point and there was little reason to even go that far. When Covid came along it took 2 days to make the first vaccine--the SARS prototype with a bit of different mRNA pasted in. Where's the failing?

This is just plain false. In fact it is false on the basis that the vaccine we do have is in fact built mostly out of the research that was done: this Covid vaccine model using mRNA is in fact capable of being applied to most, if not ALL other coronaviruses.

"Find the mRNA that produces spike proteins for (insert whatever coronavirus here), make a bunch of that, figure out how to preserve and deliver it, and that's all she wrote."

If we had made a vaccine to target SARS even in the absence of an actual SARS outbreak, we would have only had to swap out the spike protein mRNA in the system.

"Very little reason"? The whole reason this was being done was because we knew another variant would emerge. That reason precipitated in the form of a global pandemic and untold amounts of death and suffering and trauma. This would have not happened if we had actually listened to the experts on the field and pushed funding.

We should be nabbing bats (and mice, and rats, and ticks, and every other critter in the world that uses biological warfare to fight being eaten), finding out every last variant of biologically threatening virus, bacteria, and otherwise inside of them, and making vaccines for them.

We should be spending whatever money we can manage on it. Making huge industries around this pursuit.

 

[Playball40]

They don't fund new antibiotics either and they need to.

Uh ... 17+ years is hardly a "rush".
As long as you don't mind taking the word of Captain Kangaroo about it...

The sad thing is that, just like he said, the virology community knew that a new SARS virus would emerge at some point and while there was some study on it. Very little. Time and time again SARS-vaccine projects were cancelled due to lacking funding. If we'd only listened to the scientific community we'd have had a Covid-19 vaccine ready in advance on shelves even before Covid-19 emerged. A general vaccine for all Coronaviruses. But we were stupid and shortsighted and waited until it was a disaster before funding it. This is partly what Gates speech in 2015 was about. The speech QAnon uses as proof of his part in a conspiracy. But Gates didn't say anything that the scientific community didn't know already.

So sure, we've studied it for 17 years. But very little. Not nearly as much as we should have

 

[Rhea]

This would be a good topic for us to discuss in the world - that it really does make sense for governments to have a plan for certain disasters and fund the research that would be important in them during those time periods when the developers cannot make money from them.

Sure a vaccine for the common cold is not a money maker because most people would just get the cold rather than pay what it would take to prevent. But if gov’t pays for the research - and we KNOW this is the same disease that is like to produce a not-common situation one day - then we are closer to ready when MERS or SARS or COVD-19 comes up.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Uh ... 17+ years is hardly a "rush".
As long as you don't mind taking the word of Captain Kangaroo about it...

The sad thing is that, just like he said, the virology community knew that a new SARS virus would emerge at some point and while there was some study on it. Very little. Time and time again SARS-vaccine projects were cancelled due to lacking funding. If we'd only listened to the scientific community we'd have had a Covid-19 vaccine ready in advance on shelves even before Covid-19 emerged. A general vaccine for all Coronaviruses. But we were stupid and shortsighted and waited until it was a disaster before funding it. This is partly what Gates speech in 2015 was about. The speech QAnon uses as proof of his part in a conspiracy. But Gates didn't say anything that the scientific community didn't know already.

So sure, we've studied it for 17 years. But very little. Not nearly as much as we should have

We couldn't have had a Covid vaccine ready before we saw it. SARS vaccine research was taken to the point before human trials and lacking any cases it couldn't possibly go past phase 1 trials at that point and there was little reason to even go that far. When Covid came along it took 2 days to make the first vaccine--the SARS prototype with a bit of different mRNA pasted in. Where's the failing?

According to TWIV, all the Coronaviruses have the same spike protein, ie a transport system through the outer protective membrane. Even the old ones we've known about since the 60'ies. When SARS came along we studied it enough to figure out that the spike protein was it's Achilles heal. But SARS came and went. After it went away funding went away. But Coronaviruses are most often common cold viruses that most of us get every year. We could have studied the spike protein of them. It's the same spike protein. We didn't pursue this because common colds don't cause enough damage to warrant a vaccine. But we do basic science on all manner of bizarre shit, that may or may not be meaningful for science in the long run. While this was a high odds gamble, it was one of the more sensible one to study.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We couldn't have had a Covid vaccine ready before we saw it. SARS vaccine research was taken to the point before human trials and lacking any cases it couldn't possibly go past phase 1 trials at that point and there was little reason to even go that far. When Covid came along it took 2 days to make the first vaccine--the SARS prototype with a bit of different mRNA pasted in. Where's the failing?

According to TWIV, all the Coronaviruses have the same spike protein, ie a transport system through the outer protective membrane. Even the old ones we've known about since the 60'ies. When SARS came along we studied it enough to figure out that the spike protein was it's Achilles heal. But SARS came and went. After it went away funding went away. But Coronaviruses are most often common cold viruses that most of us get every year. We could have studied the spike protein of them. It's the same spike protein. We didn't pursue this because common colds don't cause enough damage to warrant a vaccine. But we do basic science on all manner of bizarre shit, that may or may not be meaningful for science in the long run. While this was a high odds gamble, it was one of the more sensible one to study.

The same general structure, the details vary. That's why the South African variant is partially resistant to the vaccine.

 

[DrZoidberg]

We couldn't have had a Covid vaccine ready before we saw it. SARS vaccine research was taken to the point before human trials and lacking any cases it couldn't possibly go past phase 1 trials at that point and there was little reason to even go that far. When Covid came along it took 2 days to make the first vaccine--the SARS prototype with a bit of different mRNA pasted in. Where's the failing?

According to TWIV, all the Coronaviruses have the same spike protein, ie a transport system through the outer protective membrane. Even the old ones we've known about since the 60'ies. When SARS came along we studied it enough to figure out that the spike protein was it's Achilles heal. But SARS came and went. After it went away funding went away. But Coronaviruses are most often common cold viruses that most of us get every year. We could have studied the spike protein of them. It's the same spike protein. We didn't pursue this because common colds don't cause enough damage to warrant a vaccine. But we do basic science on all manner of bizarre shit, that may or may not be meaningful for science in the long run. While this was a high odds gamble, it was one of the more sensible one to study.

The same general structure, the details vary. That's why the South African variant is partially resistant to the vaccine.

I don't understand your comment. What I said is that if we'd studied it more before we'd have a bigger box of tools to throw at Covid-19. Whatever variants it may develop. We know it will change a lot over time because it's a Corona virus. If we want to be better at defeating an enemy, it's better to have studied it. Your argument seems to be that because Covid-19 is so unique, (which it isn't) there wasn't any point to have studied it more than it was.

 

[DrZoidberg]

This is fun for the curious. Here's the Pfizer FDA hearing on Youtube. I think it's interesting to see in practice how these are done and what questions are asked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG7CzK5JZYM&t=5s&ab_channel=CNBCTelevision

Enjoy.

 

[TSwizzle]

A French nun who is Europe’s oldest person has recovered from Covid-19 after it swept through a nursing home in the south of France, and will celebrate her 117th birthday this week. Sister Andrée, born Lucile Randon in 1904, tested positive for the coronavirus last month at the Sainte-Catherine Labouré home near Toulon where 81 of the 88 residents contracted the virus – 10 of whom died. The nun, who will celebrate her 117th birthday on Thursday, was reported to have suffered no Covid-19 symptoms but remained confined to her room, unable to mix with other residents or attend mass. Nursing home staff told reporters her only complaint had been the “solitude”. She told Var-Matin newspaper: “I didn’t even realise I had it.”

Teh Gruaniad

A virus so deadly that you have to be tested to see if you have it.

 

[bilby]

A French nun who is Europe’s oldest person has recovered from Covid-19 after it swept through a nursing home in the south of France, and will celebrate her 117th birthday this week. Sister Andrée, born Lucile Randon in 1904, tested positive for the coronavirus last month at the Sainte-Catherine Labouré home near Toulon where 81 of the 88 residents contracted the virus – 10 of whom died. The nun, who will celebrate her 117th birthday on Thursday, was reported to have suffered no Covid-19 symptoms but remained confined to her room, unable to mix with other residents or attend mass. Nursing home staff told reporters her only complaint had been the “solitude”. She told Var-Matin newspaper: “I didn’t even realise I had it.”

Teh Gruaniad

A virus so deadly that you have to be tested to see if you have it.

...unless you become severely ill, or die.

A virus that can be spread by people who are unaware of it, but can kill thousands of those who are not so lucky, is a massive danger. If everyone who had it knew they had it, it would be much easier to contain. And if everyone who got it was asymptomatic, it would be a non-issue. But the mixture of the two outcomes is seriously problematic, and has already resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths, and many times that many serious chronic conditions.

As you would know, if you were to choose to think about it, rather than just mindlessly repeating dumb slogans whose only value is that they upset your political opponents.

 

[Jokodo]

A French nun who is Europe’s oldest person has recovered from Covid-19 after it swept through a nursing home in the south of France, and will celebrate her 117th birthday this week. Sister Andrée, born Lucile Randon in 1904, tested positive for the coronavirus last month at the Sainte-Catherine Labouré home near Toulon where 81 of the 88 residents contracted the virus – 10 of whom died. The nun, who will celebrate her 117th birthday on Thursday, was reported to have suffered no Covid-19 symptoms but remained confined to her room, unable to mix with other residents or attend mass. Nursing home staff told reporters her only complaint had been the “solitude”. She told Var-Matin newspaper: “I didn’t even realise I had it.”

Teh Gruaniad

A virus so deadly that you have to be tested to see if you have it.

Did you read the Text you quote? 81 of 88 residents got infected, 10 died.

 

[TomC]

A French nun who is Europe’s oldest person has recovered from Covid-19 after it swept through a nursing home in the south of France, and will celebrate her 117th birthday this week. Sister Andrée, born Lucile Randon in 1904, tested positive for the coronavirus last month at the Sainte-Catherine Labouré home near Toulon where 81 of the 88 residents contracted the virus – 10 of whom died. The nun, who will celebrate her 117th birthday on Thursday, was reported to have suffered no Covid-19 symptoms but remained confined to her room, unable to mix with other residents or attend mass. Nursing home staff told reporters her only complaint had been the “solitude”. She told Var-Matin newspaper: “I didn’t even realise I had it.”

Teh Gruaniad

A virus so deadly that you have to be tested to see if you have it.

Did you read the Text you quote? 81 of 88 residents got infected, 10 died.

So what?
They were old French people. Nobody important cares about those kinds of people.

/snarky
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Active cases in the US have finally can be said to have arrested in growth. New cases continue to plummet, but still around 100,000, so still way too high, but heading in the right directions. Lowest it has been since early November. I'd be curious how much the Trump campaign was the cause of some of the pre-holiday increases.

Deaths are dropping, but unfortunately still hovering around 3,000 a day 7-day average and dropping. 500k dead certainty, 600k dead likely.

US seems to be jabbing 500,000 arms a day, about half of what the goal is. Biden Admin is struggling with the lack of planning of the Trump Admin to provide the mechanisms to get the vaccines out, once they become more available to the general population.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A French nun who is Europe’s oldest person has recovered from Covid-19 after it swept through a nursing home in the south of France, and will celebrate her 117th birthday this week. Sister Andrée, born Lucile Randon in 1904, tested positive for the coronavirus last month at the Sainte-Catherine Labouré home near Toulon where 81 of the 88 residents contracted the virus – 10 of whom died. The nun, who will celebrate her 117th birthday on Thursday, was reported to have suffered no Covid-19 symptoms but remained confined to her room, unable to mix with other residents or attend mass. Nursing home staff told reporters her only complaint had been the “solitude”. She told Var-Matin newspaper: “I didn’t even realise I had it.”

Teh Gruaniad

A virus so deadly that you have to be tested to see if you have it.

Did you read the Text you quote? 81 of 88 residents got infected, 10 died.

He is fighting valiantly against the strawmen out there.

 

[marc]