Covid-19 miscellany

[Jimmy Higgins]

Where does one draw the line between stupid shit and misinformation?

Why would one need to draw such a line?

America is stupid. Fox News won a lawsuit demanding their workers lie and they wouldn't so they were fired (paraphrasing here). Fox News also in lawsuits argued no one should take what their commentators say seriously.

But that would be "disinformation". I guess the bigger question is, why is Rogan even talking about vaccination?! Is he out of other stuff?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

...why is Rogan even talking about vaccination?!

I guess he got bored with making people eat bull penises and so he wanted to see what else he could make people do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why is the "Gain of Function" and hammering Fauci so important to conservatives? Everything that I've read states that it's 50-50 right now that either COVID started naturally (transfer from a bat in the food markets) or was made in a lab and accidently released. The odds of getting it figured out is next to nil. China won't cooperate. So, what's the use? You just want another reason to dislike China or something?

Of course China doesn't cooperate--there is nothing to be gained. It's purely political on both sides.

If it were created in a lab the records would no doubt have been erased long ago. Nothing to find.

If it's from nature there are two possible cases:
1) It's found in nature. But that doesn't prove it's natural--we already have many jumps from humans to animals, finding it in bats doesn't prove it's of natural origin.
2) It's not found in nature--but that's common in such situations. When something explodes into a population that means it wasn't there before. Either it was isolated (as we saw with the New World, and we still have diseases creeping into areas they aren't in yet) or it mutated (as we saw with HIV, a zoonotic jump from SIV.)

Quit asking for Obama's birth certificate!

(And note that we have two previous known examples of related viruses appearing amongst humans in that part of the world. SARS was a lot deadlier than Covid, but it didn't have the one truly devastating characteristic--asymptomatic spread. We were able to contain it before it got into an area with a medical system not up to dealing with it. The second time was in 2012--that one never got a name. Even deadlier than SARS but it didn't spread between humans.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Does anyone know what is going on with Pfizer vaccine quality control and proper handling in Vietnam?

My first guess would be bad reporting.

My second would be counterfeiting--it's a big problem in that part of the world.

Or bad refrigeration considering the conditions those vaccines need to be stored in.

I would expect bad refrigeration to simply produce no effect, not to cause harm.

 

[ZiprHead]

Does anyone know what is going on with Pfizer vaccine quality control and proper handling in Vietnam?

My first guess would be bad reporting.

My second would be counterfeiting--it's a big problem in that part of the world.

Or bad refrigeration considering the conditions those vaccines need to be stored in.

I would expect bad refrigeration to simply produce no effect, not to cause harm.

Didn't think of it like that. You could be right.

 

[Toni]

Does anyone know what is going on with Pfizer vaccine quality control and proper handling in Vietnam?

My first guess would be bad reporting.

My second would be counterfeiting--it's a big problem in that part of the world.

Or bad refrigeration considering the conditions those vaccines need to be stored in.

I would expect bad refrigeration to simply produce no effect, not to cause harm.

Bad refrigeration =not maintaining vaccines at appropriate temperature to prevent degradation of the vaccine.

In other words, bad refrigeration in this context is the same as no refrigeration and makes the vaccines useless.

Biology is not simply adding a bunch of 1’s and 0’s and then coming up with a work around 6 months later.

 

[Toni]

Does anyone know what is going on with Pfizer vaccine quality control and proper handling in Vietnam?

My first guess would be bad reporting.

My second would be counterfeiting--it's a big problem in that part of the world.

Or bad refrigeration considering the conditions those vaccines need to be stored in.

I would expect bad refrigeration to simply produce no effect, not to cause harm.

Didn't think of it like that. You could be right.

He’s not right.

 

[Jarhyn]

Does anyone know what is going on with Pfizer vaccine quality control and proper handling in Vietnam?

My first guess would be bad reporting.

My second would be counterfeiting--it's a big problem in that part of the world.

Or bad refrigeration considering the conditions those vaccines need to be stored in.

I would expect bad refrigeration to simply produce no effect, not to cause harm.

Didn't think of it like that. You could be right.

He’s not right.

No effect is "harm" in the context.

But injecting chemically degraded stuff into the human body can also cause harm.

Not to mention all the cost to acquire a vaccine in terms of missed work and scheduling.

 

[Toni]

Does anyone know what is going on with Pfizer vaccine quality control and proper handling in Vietnam?

My first guess would be bad reporting.

My second would be counterfeiting--it's a big problem in that part of the world.

Or bad refrigeration considering the conditions those vaccines need to be stored in.

I would expect bad refrigeration to simply produce no effect, not to cause harm.

Didn't think of it like that. You could be right.

He’s not right.

No effect is "harm" in the context.

But injecting chemically degraded stuff into the human body can also cause harm.

Not to mention all the cost to acquire a vaccine in terms of missed work and scheduling.

It is possible that degraded components could cause harm itself but aside from actual contamination with bacteria or virus, not likely.

The bigger chance for harm is that people become ill despite believing that they are protected. Yes, we know there are some break through infections and we should all be as careful as possible, even if fully vaccinated, boosted, in great physical shape, young, etc.

People would believe they were immunized and not be immunized.

 

[barbos]

Some researchers reported that people infected with omicron become infectious in as little as couple of hours after exposure. That is some fast virus.

 

[ZiprHead]

Two Long Island healthcare workers were busted for allegedly forging COVID-19 vaccination cards in a cash injection scheme that raked in over $1.5 million, according to officials and reports.

...
Long Island pediatric nurse charged in $900K fake vaccine card scheme, NYPD husband being investigated

The duo would then add the bogus information into the New York State Immunization Information System (“NYSIIS”) to falsely list the individuals as vaccinated.

At their arraignment on Friday, prosecutors also alleged that the pair forged vaccine cards for undercover NYPD officers, NBC 4 reported

Investigators uncovered $900,000 in cash at DeVuono’s home, prosecutors said. Financial records at DeVuono’s home allegedly showed the duo made off with more than $1.5 million profits.

Both DeVuono and Urraro were charged with forgery. DeVuono was additionally charged with a count of offering fraud.

Cash injection: NY nurses busted for forging vax cards in $1.5M scheme

Two Long Island healthcare workers were busted for allegedly forging COVID-19 vaccination cards in a cash injection scheme that raked in over $1.5 million, according to officials and reports.

nypost.com

 

[Toni]

Two Long Island healthcare workers were busted for allegedly forging COVID-19 vaccination cards in a cash injection scheme that raked in over $1.5 million, according to officials and reports.

...
Long Island pediatric nurse charged in $900K fake vaccine card scheme, NYPD husband being investigated

The duo would then add the bogus information into the New York State Immunization Information System (“NYSIIS”) to falsely list the individuals as vaccinated.

At their arraignment on Friday, prosecutors also alleged that the pair forged vaccine cards for undercover NYPD officers, NBC 4 reported

Investigators uncovered $900,000 in cash at DeVuono’s home, prosecutors said. Financial records at DeVuono’s home allegedly showed the duo made off with more than $1.5 million profits.

Both DeVuono and Urraro were charged with forgery. DeVuono was additionally charged with a count of offering fraud.

Cash injection: NY nurses busted for forging vax cards in $1.5M scheme

Two Long Island healthcare workers were busted for allegedly forging COVID-19 vaccination cards in a cash injection scheme that raked in over $1.5 million, according to officials and reports.

nypost.com

I wonder if their customers can also be charged with something...

 

[ZiprHead]

Two Long Island healthcare workers were busted for allegedly forging COVID-19 vaccination cards in a cash injection scheme that raked in over $1.5 million, according to officials and reports.

...
Long Island pediatric nurse charged in $900K fake vaccine card scheme, NYPD husband being investigated

The duo would then add the bogus information into the New York State Immunization Information System (“NYSIIS”) to falsely list the individuals as vaccinated.

At their arraignment on Friday, prosecutors also alleged that the pair forged vaccine cards for undercover NYPD officers, NBC 4 reported

Investigators uncovered $900,000 in cash at DeVuono’s home, prosecutors said. Financial records at DeVuono’s home allegedly showed the duo made off with more than $1.5 million profits.

Both DeVuono and Urraro were charged with forgery. DeVuono was additionally charged with a count of offering fraud.

Cash injection: NY nurses busted for forging vax cards in $1.5M scheme

Two Long Island healthcare workers were busted for allegedly forging COVID-19 vaccination cards in a cash injection scheme that raked in over $1.5 million, according to officials and reports.

nypost.com

I wonder if their customers can also be charged with something...

I don't see why not if they actually used them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Does anyone know what is going on with Pfizer vaccine quality control and proper handling in Vietnam?

My first guess would be bad reporting.

My second would be counterfeiting--it's a big problem in that part of the world.

Or bad refrigeration considering the conditions those vaccines need to be stored in.

I would expect bad refrigeration to simply produce no effect, not to cause harm.

Bad refrigeration =not maintaining vaccines at appropriate temperature to prevent degradation of the vaccine.

In other words, bad refrigeration in this context is the same as no refrigeration and makes the vaccines useless.

Biology is not simply adding a bunch of 1’s and 0’s and then coming up with a work around 6 months later.

Of course it makes them useless. The issue is whether it makes them harmful or simply inert. Degraded mRNA won't code for anything, it should simply be inert. It's sterile, it's not going to grow toxins.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I wonder if their customers can also be charged with something...

While I do agree they should get a serious penalty (the people with truly faked cards are getting felonies) I see no way to prove who they are. They were authorized to enter vaccinations, thus presumably they were also giving real shots.

 

[Toni]

Does anyone know what is going on with Pfizer vaccine quality control and proper handling in Vietnam?

My first guess would be bad reporting.

My second would be counterfeiting--it's a big problem in that part of the world.

Or bad refrigeration considering the conditions those vaccines need to be stored in.

I would expect bad refrigeration to simply produce no effect, not to cause harm.

Bad refrigeration =not maintaining vaccines at appropriate temperature to prevent degradation of the vaccine.

In other words, bad refrigeration in this context is the same as no refrigeration and makes the vaccines useless.

Biology is not simply adding a bunch of 1’s and 0’s and then coming up with a work around 6 months later.

Of course it makes them useless. The issue is whether it makes them harmful or simply inert. Degraded mRNA won't code for anything, it should simply be inert. It's sterile, it's not going to grow toxins.

The 'bad' is having ineffective vaccines passed off to patients as effective. It gives them a very false sense of protection and makes them vulnerable to infection. That's the BAD.

 

[Metaphor]

Thanks for pointing out that not all stupid anti-vaxers

So, 'anti-vax' includes people who are not in any way anti-vax, just anti vaccine mandate?

 

[Metaphor]

The three top epidemiological authorities in the U.S. are Anthony Fauci, Donald Trump and Alex Jones and, although all three have been vaccinated, two out of 3 do NOT support MANDATORY vaccinations.

Mandatory vaccinations are a political decision, not a medical decision.

Mandatory vaccinations are a political decision not a medical decision in the same sense that having standards for clean drinking water in any municipality is a political decision and not a medical one.

Well, yes, they are both political decisions, rightfully made by politicians who are elected by the community which the political decision will apply to.

Of course, different communities might want and need different standards for drinking water and raising or lowering those standards usually does not involve forcing medical procedures on unconsenting adults.

So, you are against fluoridated water when instituted by govt.

No. I did not say that and nothing I said implies it.

 

[Metaphor]

People have a right to not be vaccinated but they do not have a right to wander about outside of their personal property endangering the lives of others, including those who cannot be vaccinated or for whom vaccination might not be sufficient protection, such as transplant patients.

I am not going through this again. You are not going to convince me that forcing medical procedures on unconsenting adults is a good and proper thing. It is not. It is evil.

What metric are you using to determine that?

What metric is anyone using when they decide it is right and proper to force medical procedures on unconsenting adult group A, solely for the benefit of group B?

In any case, I do not think it is any longer productive to argue public policy with people who are so callous that they dehumanise their targeted group as 'plague rats'.

But "evil" is okay--do you want to rethink that epithet?

Saying somebody advocates something evil does not essentialise them nor does it dehumanise them.

 

[Toni]

The three top epidemiological authorities in the U.S. are Anthony Fauci, Donald Trump and Alex Jones and, although all three have been vaccinated, two out of 3 do NOT support MANDATORY vaccinations.

Mandatory vaccinations are a political decision, not a medical decision.

Mandatory vaccinations are a political decision not a medical decision in the same sense that having standards for clean drinking water in any municipality is a political decision and not a medical one.

Well, yes, they are both political decisions, rightfully made by politicians who are elected by the community which the political decision will apply to.

Of course, different communities might want and need different standards for drinking water and raising or lowering those standards usually does not involve forcing medical procedures on unconsenting adults.

So, you are against fluoridated water when instituted by govt.

No. I did not say that and nothing I said implies it.

It may not be the case in Australia but in the US, some people do oppose fluoridation of water because they believe it causes adverse medical side effects. In effect, some believe that fluoridation constitutes forcing people to ingest a substance for spurious medical benefits.

Opposition to water fluoridation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org