Credit Where Credit is Due: a shout out thread for Things Trump Did Right

[Swammerdami]

It sounds like you've fallen for GOP propaganda again. When Clinton was elected, his "coat-tails" gave him a majority in both Houses. That was the only reason he was able to pass The Deficit Reduction Act of 1993. That Bill passed the House of Reps without a single Republican vote. The bill then went to the Senate where the vote was 50-50. Again, not a single Republican Senator voted for the Bill. Al Gore, climbed the dais and exercised his Constitutional duty by casting the deciding vote. The Bill then went to the White House where Bill Clinton signed it into law.

Newt Gingrich -- the very nasty man who sent American politics on his downward spiral -- went on TV and BRAGGED that not a single Republican had voted for the Deficit Reduction Act: The Democrats owned this law and owned the chaos and recession that would follow.

But instead the Act ushered in one of the most prosperous periods in all of American history. Economists from BOTH sides of the political divide admit that the Deficit Reduction Act was a principal key to this prosperity. This great success story should be better known. And let me repeat again: The legislation received ZERO votes from Republican Congressmen and Senators. ZERO. Z-E-R-O. With a Z.

In 2001 GW Bush became President (despite losing the popular vote to Al Gore) and almost immediately began reversing the Democrat's fiscal prudence. Massive tax cuts for the rich were passed; These cuts made the rich richer but that wasn't even the main purpose. The idea --  Starve the beast -- was to DELIBERATELY increase the deficit! (In the Wiki article you can read right-wingers admitting this in so many words.) By increasing the deficit, the right-wing has an excuse ("we need to save money") for firing regulators.

I was in a hurry this morning and abridged the remarkable story of The Deficit Reduction Act of 1993. It was a demonstration of true heroism. Reducing the Deficit required reversing some of the Reagan tax cuts. American voters are not very smart and for many "He increased taxes. Voting for his opponent is a No-brainer" was the limit of their political calculus. (This tends to be true even when the tax hike is on the rich: As part of the "American Dream", Americans assume that they'll win the lottery but Nancy Pelosi and AOC will put their grubby hands on 90% of their lottery loot.)

This is why the Deficit Reduction Act passed each House without a single vote to spare: Only as many as were needed "walked the plank" and voted for the tax hike. The phrase "walk the plank" is what they called it: They knew they were dooming their political future but wanted to do right by their country.

When the Rs took over in 2001 hearts were broken! The courage of the 1993 Democrats was spent for naught. Newt Gingrich, Dick Cheney and the other evil-doers immediately resumed their program of "Starve the Beast": deliberately increasing the deficit to make government "unaffordable." You can see the correlation between President and fiscal status below. During Clinton's terms the deficit fell from 4.5% of GDP to Negative 2.3% (surplus!) The sharp reversal with the election of Dubya Bush is starkly apparent.

Of course the most pronounced lurches in the deficit were in the 21st century; they occurred in response to Bush's lax attitude toward the Wall Street games that led to the 2008 credit crisis ("the Great Recession"), and Trump's incompetent response to Covid in 2019-2020. In each case a Democratic White House soon set the fiscal balance back on course.

@RVonse -- Does this help?

 

[Axulus]

Trump's latest "Truth" on Truth Social. Probably doesn't have the power to do it, but could actually be something positive he is trying?

For many years the World has wondered why Prescription Drugs and Pharmaceuticals in the United States States of America were SO MUCH HIGHER IN PRICE THAN THEY WERE IN ANY OTHER NATION, SOMETIMES BEING FIVE TO TEN TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE SAME DRUG, MANUFACTURED IN THE EXACT SAME LABORATORY OR PLANT, BY THE SAME COMPANY??? It was always difficult to explain and very embarrassing because, in fact, there was no correct or rightful answer. The Pharmaceutical/Drug Companies would say, for years, that it was Research and Development Costs, and that all of these costs were, and would be, for no reason whatsoever, borne by the “suckers” of America, ALONE. Campaign Contributions can do wonders, but not with me, and not with the Republican Party. We are going to do the right thing, something that the Democrats have fought for many years. Therefore, I am pleased to announce that Tomorrow morning, in the White House, at 9:00 A.M., I will be signing one of the most consequential Executive Orders in our Country’s history. Prescription Drug and Pharmaceutical prices will be REDUCED, almost immediately, by 30% to 80%. They will rise throughout the World in order to equalize and, for the first time in many years, bring FAIRNESS TO AMERICA! I will be instituting a MOST FAVORED NATION’S POLICY whereby the United States will pay the same price as the Nation that pays the lowest price anywhere in the World. Our Country will finally be treated fairly, and our citizens Healthcare Costs will be reduced by numbers never even thought of before. Additionally, on top of everything else, the United States will save TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Thank you for your attention to this matter. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

 

[ZiprHead]

Just another grift. Pharma companies will be lining up at Mar A Lago to buy Trump's meme coins and be exempted from the order.

 

[bilby]

Trump's latest "Truth" on Truth Social. Probably doesn't have the power to do it, but could actually be something positive he is trying?

For many years the World has wondered why Prescription Drugs and Pharmaceuticals in the United States States of America were SO MUCH HIGHER IN PRICE THAN THEY WERE IN ANY OTHER NATION, SOMETIMES BEING FIVE TO TEN TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE SAME DRUG, MANUFACTURED IN THE EXACT SAME LABORATORY OR PLANT, BY THE SAME COMPANY??? It was always difficult to explain and very embarrassing because, in fact, there was no correct or rightful answer. The Pharmaceutical/Drug Companies would say, for years, that it was Research and Development Costs, and that all of these costs were, and would be, for no reason whatsoever, borne by the “suckers” of America, ALONE. Campaign Contributions can do wonders, but not with me, and not with the Republican Party. We are going to do the right thing, something that the Democrats have fought for many years. Therefore, I am pleased to announce that Tomorrow morning, in the White House, at 9:00 A.M., I will be signing one of the most consequential Executive Orders in our Country’s history. Prescription Drug and Pharmaceutical prices will be REDUCED, almost immediately, by 30% to 80%. They will rise throughout the World in order to equalize and, for the first time in many years, bring FAIRNESS TO AMERICA! I will be instituting a MOST FAVORED NATION’S POLICY whereby the United States will pay the same price as the Nation that pays the lowest price anywhere in the World. Our Country will finally be treated fairly, and our citizens Healthcare Costs will be reduced by numbers never even thought of before. Additionally, on top of everything else, the United States will save TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Thank you for your attention to this matter. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

This brought to you by the Department of Not Thinking Things Through.

US drug prices are too high, but that's got little to do with international trade, and everything to do with the internal policies of the USA.

What patients pay for their drugs is largely a function of the size of the subsidies paid by their governments; The US provides far less subsidy than most, so retail prices are higher. Buying subsidised drugs and then exporting them is generally illegal, unless the subsidy is refunded by the exporter.

Another contributor to high costs in the USA is high standards, coupled with a deliberate policy of not accepting other nations' equal standards - When I was exporting medications to the US, the entire facility in which I worked had to be separately licenced and inspected by the US FDA, in addition to the Australian TGA licencing and inspection. Our TGA licence was recognised by the UK and EU, and by all of our other export customers from Colombia to Vietnam; But our US market required additional (redundant) inspections by US officials, and the cost of that was incorporated into our pricing.

A further contributor to high costs in the US is the cost of advertising. The US is the only OECD nation where drug companies are permitted to advertise directly to patients, rather than only to medical professionals, and this costs a lot of money - which is, of course, added to prices.

R&D costs are a part of the story, but again, the reason that the cost of R&D falls disproportionately to US consumers is due to US patent law, not to some nefarious plot to avoid passing those costs to overseas customers. The IP and patent law surrounding medications in the US is overdue for a review, and undoubtedly causes American patients to pay higher prices than are commonly paid in other OECD countries.

If by "Prescription Drug and Pharmaceutical prices will be REDUCED, almost immediately, by 30% to 80%", Trump means that he will introduce subsidies of that size, then he might be right. But I doubt that this can be lawfully done by an Executive Order, and I further doubt that such a massive expenditure of public money is compatible either with his stated platform of deficit reductions, or with his supporters' opinions on government spending programs.

My suspicion is that by "It was always difficult to explain and very embarrassing because, in fact, there was no correct or rightful answer" what he means is "I don't understand the answer, so I am just going to pretend that the complexity doesn't exist", which would be completely consistent with his other actions (eg on Tariffs), and likely will have consequences that have the opposite effect to that which he intends, claims, or expects.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

There are many things that are cheaper in the USA than elsewhere. We know Trump will ignore that, a major reason being he is so ignorant that he knows nothing about the prices of anything, unless someone draws something specifically to his attention as obviously happened with the pharmaceuticals. If he really was concerned about how much Americans pay for things then he would order an investigation of costs and related prices in the medical industry, both hospitals and insurance companies.

 

[Shadowy Man]

If the invisible hand of the free market can bear those higher pharmaceutical prices who are we to judge it to be wrong?

He’s starting to sound like a socialist!

 

[TV and credit cards]

Trump's latest "Truth" on Truth Social. Probably doesn't have the power to do it, but could actually be something positive he is trying?

For many years the World has wondered why Prescription Drugs and Pharmaceuticals in the United States States of America were SO MUCH HIGHER IN PRICE THAN THEY WERE IN ANY OTHER NATION, SOMETIMES BEING FIVE TO TEN TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE SAME DRUG, MANUFACTURED IN THE EXACT SAME LABORATORY OR PLANT, BY THE SAME COMPANY??? It was always difficult to explain and very embarrassing because, in fact, there was no correct or rightful answer. The Pharmaceutical/Drug Companies would say, for years, that it was Research and Development Costs, and that all of these costs were, and would be, for no reason whatsoever, borne by the “suckers” of America, ALONE. Campaign Contributions can do wonders, but not with me, and not with the Republican Party. We are going to do the right thing, something that the Democrats have fought for many years. Therefore, I am pleased to announce that Tomorrow morning, in the White House, at 9:00 A.M., I will be signing one of the most consequential Executive Orders in our Country’s history. Prescription Drug and Pharmaceutical prices will be REDUCED, almost immediately, by 30% to 80%. They will rise throughout the World in order to equalize and, for the first time in many years, bring FAIRNESS TO AMERICA! I will be instituting a MOST FAVORED NATION’S POLICY whereby the United States will pay the same price as the Nation that pays the lowest price anywhere in the World. Our Country will finally be treated fairly, and our citizens Healthcare Costs will be reduced by numbers never even thought of before. Additionally, on top of everything else, the United States will save TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Thank you for your attention to this matter. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

Didn't he take a stab at this once before in nightmare past, buying drugs from Cana... oops? Of course he provided no detail of how he's going to go about this because the only purpose for the post is the post itself. Maybe a little blurb down the road about how that useless judicial system stood in the way of Trump trying to make America great again. Again, it's only the post that matters. It's Monday. There will be more and on another topic, to sweep away this and move on to that. Just a constant barrage of posts of Trump trying to violate the law make America great again.
Trump has about as much pull telling drug companies to lower their prices as he does telling the oil industry to drill baby drill.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Of course the Democrats have no plan to protect you from the bogeyman. And you're being blind if you think he'll be out in three years.

The debt death spiral has been looming far before the arrival of Trump. The debt interest that is so out of control it is more than the defense budget now. In the near future when our government has to borrow more money just to finance this debt interest the bond vigilantes will be officially of control. This is not an imagined trumped up Trump fear. It is horribly real.

The Democrats need to acknowledge reality and work to prevent this from happening. Not because they like Trump but because they like their country.

Bashing Trump and name calling solves nothing at all.

Do you not understand the concept of "bogeyman"??

And is The Felon doing anything about your concerns?? Debt? He wants more.

And don't blame the Democrats, borrowing is very much a Republican thing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The debt death spiral has been looming far before the arrival of Trump.

When Clinton left office the deficit and debt were down and shrinking.
Then Bush II came along and slashed taxes on the rich. Trump continued the tradition of looting the country to benefit the rich. Now the debt is huge and the interest rate is skyrocketing. But just try to get the Republicans to support fiscal sanity, they won't.
Tom

You're right that the rich have lost their mind over tax cuts and blown deficits worse than Democrats. But both sides have ignored for completely too long real spending cuts that would do anything useful.

So why do you think they are going to help when they're doing the exact opposite??

As for spending--for a long time it's been approximately 20% of GDP. Neither side has changed that much. Where the difference comes is the Democrats want taxes that fund that, the Republicans want deficits.

It was very unpopular but DOGE at least attempted a real effort that appeared to have promise to actually reduce the spending side.

Appeared to have. DOGE is nothing but attempting to do brain-dead keyword searches to kill things with no regard for the reality.

Let's increase it from one to two, Rvtwose.

Perhaps both sides could at least get along enough to save the country if the Republicans would forget about their tax cuts for the rich and the Democrats would admit to the deficit problem is a real threat to us all.

The deficit is mostly a bogeyman problem. Nuke the Republican tax cuts and we would probably be fine. Shoot every Republican in Congress and we would almost certainly be fine.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You're right that the rich have lost their mind over tax cuts and blown deficits worse than Democrats. But both sides have ignored for completely too long real spending cuts that would do anything useful.

Why spending cuts instead of tax increases on the folks getting stupid rich in the current situation?
And frankly, I'm confident that the Democrats would have operated more like Clinton in the late 90s had the Teaparty obstructionists not taken over in 2010.
Tom

Because you could take 100% of their wealth and still not fix this problem. The math tells us that. It would just be like DOGE except in reverse. Lots of squealing and hollering and no more billionaires...but at the end of the day the death spiral wouldn't be stopped.

The US simplyhas to cut spending profusely and I'm in favor of looking at all the global and military spending first. I was actually hopeful with DOGE but its not going to be worth a shit either. I'm about ready to retire and cutting social security will certainly not make me happy at all. But that's probably the kind of solution it will take for the sake of this nation.

In other words, Dachau.

The only way we can make the spending cuts you want is to kill off the elderly and disabled.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't think he was particularly brilliant, mostly he just stayed out of the way of economic improvements.
Tom

Which is mostly what government should be doing. The economy doesn't need more than a light touch most of the time, just don't go breaking things. And when you try to make a name for yourself you probably break things. In general good presidents aren't memorable, memorable presidents either are not good or were faced with major external problems.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Other than Clinton, the deficit has never gone positive. Ill even give Clinton the credit for that brief interlude of sanity although Gingrich and the Republicans controlled congress at the time. But other than this very brief instance of time there has never been any progress and now we can't pay our interest on this debt without borrowing even more money just to pay our interest. The debt just keeps on growing and now it looks like a hockey stick.

Goalposts!!

What he said is that the deficit goes down during Democrat administrations and up during Republican ones. (And the trend is even more pronounced when you consider that most budget issues are set in the previous year and assign the deficits to the administration that passed them rather than the administration that was in power.)

You are "countering" with saying it only once went away. Thus you are blaming the Democrats for failing to attain complete victory even though they are better than the Republicans. You're in a hole, the Republican answer is dig harder.

So what is your solution to this Swammerdami? Sit down and do nothing and die? That's seems to be what most think is best on this board. We see the supernova coming our way but we just don't care about it. The fed is paralyzed at this point too. They can't just lower interest to help the US pay its debt interest or our economy will be back to high inflation again. And is it really moral for the fed just to print more dollars while countries like China actually produce for our consumption? For the people who think doing nothing is great.....how do you propose we pay the interest on our debt? And do you believe the magic fairy is just going to pop the debt away without some kind of bondholder revolt?

Virtually every argument about having to do something is wrong. They almost always amount to "we are in a frying pan, jump!"

And we don't say to do nothing. We say to undo The Felon's tax cuts for the rich.

Pray tell me what are your idea's for helping our country produce more, save more, and consume less? We know that tariffs tax consumption and encourages more local manufacturing to produce more. But maybe you have the best idea which is better than doing nothing?

What is your obsession with production? China has too much production, not enough consumption, they're heading for major problems because of it. The first big bankruptcy was news, the ongoing bank bankruptcies don't make it to the western press.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This brought to you by the Department of Not Thinking Things Through.

US drug prices are too high, but that's got little to do with international trade, and everything to do with the internal policies of the USA.

What patients pay for their drugs is largely a function of the size of the subsidies paid by their governments; The US provides far less subsidy than most, so retail prices are higher. Buying subsidised drugs and then exporting them is generally illegal, unless the subsidy is refunded by the exporter.

Another contributor to high costs in the USA is high standards, coupled with a deliberate policy of not accepting other nations' equal standards - When I was exporting medications to the US, the entire facility in which I worked had to be separately licenced and inspected by the US FDA, in addition to the Australian TGA licencing and inspection. Our TGA licence was recognised by the UK and EU, and by all of our other export customers from Colombia to Vietnam; But our US market required additional (redundant) inspections by US officials, and the cost of that was incorporated into our pricing.

A further contributor to high costs in the US is the cost of advertising. The US is the only OECD nation where drug companies are permitted to advertise directly to patients, rather than only to medical professionals, and this costs a lot of money - which is, of course, added to prices.

R&D costs are a part of the story, but again, the reason that the cost of R&D falls disproportionately to US consumers is due to US patent law, not to some nefarious plot to avoid passing those costs to overseas customers. The IP and patent law surrounding medications in the US is overdue for a review, and undoubtedly causes American patients to pay higher prices than are commonly paid in other OECD countries.

If by "Prescription Drug and Pharmaceutical prices will be REDUCED, almost immediately, by 30% to 80%", Trump means that he will introduce subsidies of that size, then he might be right. But I doubt that this can be lawfully done by an Executive Order, and I further doubt that such a massive expenditure of public money is compatible either with his stated platform of deficit reductions, or with his supporters' opinions on government spending programs.

My suspicion is that by "It was always difficult to explain and very embarrassing because, in fact, there was no correct or rightful answer" what he means is "I don't understand the answer, so I am just going to pretend that the complexity doesn't exist", which would be completely consistent with his other actions (eg on Tariffs), and likely will have consequences that have the opposite effect to that which he intends, claims, or expects.

One big thing you are missing here: Cost shifting. UHC countries often dictate drug prices. So long as that's above the marginal cost of producing the drugs companies will tolerate that. But that doesn't mean it's a viable overall price.

He actually could (probably would require Congress) probably make that drop actually happen. Simply mandate to drug companies that they must not charge more to US customers (the distributors, not the patients) than they charge to other first world customers. But it shouldn't be done overnight, the market shock would be massive.

 

[James Brown]

Not sure if this is the original source, as I found it repeated on Facebook, reddit, et al.

Trump 1.0 & 2.0

I’ve been critical of the Trump presidency these last four years, and am still exhausted from the experience.
But to be fair, President Trump wasn’t that bad, other than when he incited an insurrection against the government,
Mismanaged a pandemic that killed over a million Americans,
Called neo-Nazis “very fine people,”
Separated children from their families,
Lost those children in the bureaucracy,
Tear-gassed peaceful protesters on Lafayette Square so he could hold a photo op holding a Bible in front of a church,
Tried to block all Muslims from entering the country,
Got impeached,
Got impeached again,

...a long list of other items which I can't quote here for copyright reasons...

Said that the Japanese would sit back and watch their “Sony televisions” if the US were ever attacked,
Left a NATO summit early in a huff,
Stared directly into an eclipse even though everyone over the age of 5 knows not to do that,
Called himself a very stable genius despite significant evidence to the contrary,
Refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power and kept his promise,
and a whole bunch of other things I can’t remember at the moment.
But other than that. . .

He was a great President

 

[TV and credit cards]

Possibly the lifting of sanctions on Syria. I don’t know that it should have been done all at once but time will tell. At least Syria is being given a chance to succeed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Possibly the lifting of sanctions on Syria. I don’t know that it should have been done all at once but time will tell. At least Syria is being given a chance to succeed.

The regime fell, the sanctions should have been lifted immediately. Perhaps the new regime will be no better but they shouldn't be punished for the sins of the old regime.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Shares of nuclear power companies closed higher on Friday after U.S. President Donald Trump signed executive orders seeking to jumpstart the industry. The orders direct the nation's independent nuclear regulatory commission to cut down on regulations and fast-track new licenses for reactors and power plants.

 

[Swammerdami]

@RVonse -- I posted the following two weeks ago. You've never made ANY response to it! Do you dispute any of the facts I present? Have you even read the post? I'd hate to think that your mind has been kidnapped into some right-wing bullshit bubble, and that you have become incapable of forming new ideas.

It sounds like you've fallen for GOP propaganda again. When Clinton was elected, his "coat-tails" gave him a majority in both Houses. That was the only reason he was able to pass The Deficit Reduction Act of 1993. That Bill passed the House of Reps without a single Republican vote. The bill then went to the Senate where the vote was 50-50. Again, not a single Republican Senator voted for the Bill. Al Gore, climbed the dais and exercised his Constitutional duty by casting the deciding vote. The Bill then went to the White House where Bill Clinton signed it into law.

Newt Gingrich -- the very nasty man who sent American politics on his downward spiral -- went on TV and BRAGGED that not a single Republican had voted for the Deficit Reduction Act: The Democrats owned this law and owned the chaos and recession that would follow.

But instead the Act ushered in one of the most prosperous periods in all of American history. Economists from BOTH sides of the political divide admit that the Deficit Reduction Act was a principal key to this prosperity. This great success story should be better known. And let me repeat again: The legislation received ZERO votes from Republican Congressmen and Senators. ZERO. Z-E-R-O. With a Z.

In 2001 GW Bush became President (despite losing the popular vote to Al Gore) and almost immediately began reversing the Democrat's fiscal prudence. Massive tax cuts for the rich were passed; These cuts made the rich richer but that wasn't even the main purpose. The idea --  Starve the beast -- was to DELIBERATELY increase the deficit! (In the Wiki article you can read right-wingers admitting this in so many words.) By increasing the deficit, the right-wing has an excuse ("we need to save money") for firing regulators.

I was in a hurry this morning and abridged the remarkable story of The Deficit Reduction Act of 1993. It was a demonstration of true heroism. Reducing the Deficit required reversing some of the Reagan tax cuts. American voters are not very smart and for many "He increased taxes. Voting for his opponent is a No-brainer" was the limit of their political calculus. (This tends to be true even when the tax hike is on the rich: As part of the "American Dream", Americans assume that they'll win the lottery but Nancy Pelosi and AOC will put their grubby hands on 90% of their lottery loot.)

This is why the Deficit Reduction Act passed each House without a single vote to spare: Only as many as were needed "walked the plank" and voted for the tax hike. The phrase "walk the plank" is what they called it: They knew they were dooming their political future but wanted to do right by their country.

When the Rs took over in 2001 hearts were broken! The courage of the 1993 Democrats was spent for naught. Newt Gingrich, Dick Cheney and the other evil-doers immediately resumed their program of "Starve the Beast": deliberately increasing the deficit to make government "unaffordable." You can see the correlation between President and fiscal status below. During Clinton's terms the deficit fell from 4.5% of GDP to Negative 2.3% (surplus!) The sharp reversal with the election of Dubya Bush is starkly apparent.

Of course the most pronounced lurches in the deficit were in the 21st century; they occurred in response to Bush's lax attitude toward the Wall Street games that led to the 2008 credit crisis ("the Great Recession"), and Trump's incompetent response to Covid in 2019-2020. In each case a Democratic White House soon set the fiscal balance back on course.

@RVonse -- Does this help?

 

[ZiprHead]

Inconvenient facts are inconvenient.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Shares of nuclear power companies closed higher on Friday after U.S. President Donald Trump signed executive orders seeking to jumpstart the industry. The orders direct the nation's independent nuclear regulatory commission to cut down on regulations and fast-track new licenses for reactors and power plants.

Yuck!

I'm pro-nuke. I also think the regulations are excessive because we should be looking at the risk from making power rather than the risk from making power by any given means. But I do not remotely expect him to do a sensible job of reviewing the regulations. (If nothing else, a sensible review of safety regulations should wipe coal based powerplants off the map. Coal is 10x as dangerous as oil which is 10x as dangerous as gas which is 10x as dangerous as nuclear. Everything else is basically bit players.)