• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Cuties

Jason Harvestdancer

Contributor
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
7,833
Location
Lots of planets have a North
Basic Beliefs
Wiccan
So Netflix is hosting a movie called "Cuties", and it is deeply dividing those who know about it. Oddly enough, along party lines.

The side most critical of it seems to be the right, and the side with people actually defending in seems to be the left.

I'm not going to risk being accused of anything by linking to the trailer. Sorry, if you want to see 12 year old girls twerking you have to look for the trailer yourself.

Thoughts?
 
Typical controversy that erupts whenever a coming-of-age film admits that teenagers have sexual lives.

Eleven year olds are not teens. Too often young girls are very over sexualized. See Jon Benet Ramsey and childrens beauty pageants.

Haven’t seen this film but gather the controversy in the film is supposed to be secular vs Muslim values.

It’s a real concern. Girls’ bodies often show physical development that far outstrips their emotional development or actual physical development. Having breasts doesn’t mean you are ready for sex or sexual attention from boys and men or that your body is ready to carry a pregnancy. Much less that you are ready to deal with any of the consequences of sex.
 
It’s a real concern. Girls’ bodies often show physical development that far outstrips their emotional development or actual physical development. Having breasts doesn’t mean you are ready for sex or sexual attention from boys and men or that your body is ready to carry a pregnancy. Much less that you are ready to deal with any of the consequences of sex.

Which is more or less the theme of the film, as I understand it. Have not seen it myself.

The idea that simply documenting something on film causes it to happen more is not an argument I have ever seen substantiated. It seems more like magical thinking (the psychological kind, not Pagan-y kind) than any sort of logic.
 
It’s a real concern. Girls’ bodies often show physical development that far outstrips their emotional development or actual physical development. Having breasts doesn’t mean you are ready for sex or sexual attention from boys and men or that your body is ready to carry a pregnancy. Much less that you are ready to deal with any of the consequences of sex.

Which is more or less the theme of the film, as I understand it. Have not seen it myself.

The idea that simply documenting something on film causes it to happen more is not an argument I have ever seen substantiated. It seems more like magical thinking (the psychological kind, not Pagan-y kind) than any sort of logic.

Pagan-y kind?
 
Some people defending the film comment on how it is critiquing sexualizing and exploiting pre-teens ... by sexualizing and exploiting pre-teens.

To what degree one sees sexualization and to what degree exploitation is in the mind of the viewer.
Of course Ted Cruz is all over this and asking Barr to investigate. I’m beginning to think this is how Ted deals with his own unacceptable urges.
 
Some people defending the film comment on how it is critiquing sexualizing and exploiting pre-teens ... by sexualizing and exploiting pre-teens.

To what degree one sees sexualization and to what degree exploitation is in the mind of the viewer.
Of course Ted Cruz is all over this and asking Barr to investigate. I’m beginning to think this is how Ted deals with his own unacceptable urges.

I haven't seen the film. But the degree of sexualization and degree exploitation is not just in the mind of the viewer.

Here is this from the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/12/...ion=click&module=Most Popular&pgtype=Homepage

The film, which was released as “Mignonnes” in France and won a directing award from the Sundance Institute in February, follows an 11-year-old girl named Amy (Fathia Youssouf) as she tries to find her place growing up in a poor suburb of Paris. At home, Amy has to please her family, who are observant Muslims from Senegal, but she eventually falls in with a group of friends who have their own dance troupe in defiance of her family’s strict rules.

Maïmouna Doucouré, the film’s director, said in an interview with Netflix that the movie incorporated elements of her own childhood in its portrayal of Amy’s struggles between two distinct modes of femininity: one dictated by the traditional values of her Senegalese and Muslim upbringing, the other by Western society.

I would like to add my two cents worth: I have not seen the movie but if it has little girls dancing very provocatively then that is not, in fact, a very accurate depiction of femininity by Western society as it applies to 11 year old girls. Or women, actually. Not outside of Trumpworld, anyway.


This seems to be a pretty decent review.

https://variety.com/2020/film/reviews/cuties-review-1203476991/

I might try to watch it myself.
 
I haven't seen the film. But the degree of sexualization and degree exploitation is not just in the mind of the viewer.

Here is this from the NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/12/...ion=click&module=Most Popular&pgtype=Homepage

The film, which was released as “Mignonnes” in France and won a directing award from the Sundance Institute in February, follows an 11-year-old girl named Amy (Fathia Youssouf) as she tries to find her place growing up in a poor suburb of Paris. At home, Amy has to please her family, who are observant Muslims from Senegal, but she eventually falls in with a group of friends who have their own dance troupe in defiance of her family’s strict rules.

Maïmouna Doucouré, the film’s director, said in an interview with Netflix that the movie incorporated elements of her own childhood in its portrayal of Amy’s struggles between two distinct modes of femininity: one dictated by the traditional values of her Senegalese and Muslim upbringing, the other by Western society.

I would like to add my two cents worth: I have not seen the movie but if it has little girls dancing very provocatively then that is not, in fact, a very accurate depiction of femininity by Western society as it applies to 11 year old girls. Or women, actually. Not outside of Trumpworld, anyway.


This seems to be a pretty decent review.

https://variety.com/2020/film/reviews/cuties-review-1203476991/

I might try to watch it myself.

It may not be typical and it may not be what we want kids to be like, but it's not uncommon at all for little girls to emulate pop stars twerking and wearing diva clothes or to learn more than they need to be learning through social media.

That said, I've seen about 3/4 of the movie. I think I'll finish it tomorrow. Too many distractions tonight. So far, it's pretty much all you've heard - it's a realistic portrayal of what *some* little girls are doing, and at the same time, it's unnecessarily sexual in its focus on crotches and behinds in extremely sexual positions and movements of children's bodies throughout the film.

One thing that bugs me is that it seems to be a thinly veiled message of female bashing Islam style, showing that female bodies and girls' choices in clothing and activities are the tragic crime and moral message here while boys and men in the film are all portrayed as being shocked at these little girls and vehemently rejecting their naive advances, telling them to "go play with your dolls" instead of flirting with boys. We know the real world of boys and men isn't so mature and valiant toward girls.

Other than those thoughts, I haven't really made up my mind about it overall.

Edit: I went ahead and watched through to the end. I think I'm going to watch it again once or twice. There's a lot to think about here.
 
Last edited:
I haven't watched the movie yet, but from every synopsis I've read it is undoubtedly a critique of the sexualization of minor girls, it isn't glorifying it.

Now, the actual scenes involving dancing have been described as "gratuitous". At what point does it become a problem? I don't know. No doubt, actual pedophiles will use the film for their own gratification. But no doubt, they do that with even banal films involving children.

I would err on the side of not having 11 year olds twerking on film, personally. But I guess I'm not an artist, just a lowly engineer.
 
Why are they ironing their hair in the trailer?

Haven't seen this but yeah, it's a thing or was not that long ago. Not certain of trends among adolescent girls these days but girls would emulate slightly older girls who were emulating young women and straight hair was THE thing. No texture, no curls, no waves. Straight hair was considered 'sexy.'
 
Sounds like the original and still most pervasive cancel culture, the right wing, is at again, and showing that conservatives are oblivious to the nature of satire.
 
Sounds like the original and still most pervasive cancel culture, the right wing, is at again, and showing that conservatives are oblivious to the nature of satire.

Well, it isn't satire. The tone is serious. The director clearly states that it is a critique of the hyper-sexualization of young girls in our culture. The movie is about how a young immigrant girl navigates her conservative, immigrant background and the hyper-sexualized milieu that exists in her adopted country.

The controversy reminds me of the one surrounding the movie Kids.
 
Sounds like the original and still most pervasive cancel culture, the right wing, is at again, and showing that conservatives are oblivious to the nature of satire.

Well, it isn't satire. The tone is serious. The director clearly states that it is a critique of the hyper-sexualization of young girls in our culture. The movie is about how a young immigrant girl navigates her conservative, immigrant background and the hyper-sexualized milieu that exists in her adopted country.

The controversy reminds me of the one surrounding the movie Kids.

I criticize the film for very different reasons from the right wing pearl clutchers, but I would say that, yes, they focused more on 11 year old crotch as well as making it appear that the girls themselves are the source of sexualization than they did on cultural critique.

I don't think it actually is a critique of society or culture. It doesn't play out that way in the film at all. It plays out as a critique of little girls. When the girls dance, they dance to music with lyrics of a sexual nature, but it only plays the music in that context, as if the music is just incidental and the girls themselves are the original source of desire to dance in a sexy way.

I also criticize it for the fact that the males in the film are almost totally shown as moral and disgusted by the girls' behavior. We all know the real world is very different. The film shows a girl taking a photo of her vagina and posting it on the internet, for example, but the film is not at all clear about what motivated her to do this. A boy in her class called her a whore for doing it The friends who initially drew her into dancing all condemned the act and ostracized her for it. What prompted her to do that? Just puberty and liking boys doesn't make little girls do things like that.

I think the film could have been a useful critique of culture's sexualization of children, but all in all, it seems like it serves more as religious moralizing about how females are the source of all sin and suffering.

The good part, the part that possibly redeems this disingenuous portrayal of little girls, is the ending, where the main character is performing an extremely sexual dance with three of her friends in front of a large audience and as she's dancing it hits her that she doesn't really feel good about this, that she doesn't really want to do it and maybe we are to read her mind and realize that she was doing it all for the wrong reasons, for acceptance. She then stops and runs home, and later we see her without her friends but wearing less sexy clothing and doing normal girl things such as going to school and jumping rope with friends.

So it does successfully convey the message that "sexualization of children is bad, bad, bad," but it does not make it clear what really influenced the girls other than some quick side glances toward music and internet.
 
Some people defending the film comment on how it is critiquing sexualizing and exploiting pre-teens ... by sexualizing and exploiting pre-teens.

I don't really see why you feel you have to describe yourself as "some people", just say what you think.
It's a habit he picked up from some politician.

You can both save your baseless accusations. You never support them anyway when called on them. What I'm trying to do here is find out what other people are thinking about this.
 
Sounds like the original and still most pervasive cancel culture, the right wing, is at again, and showing that conservatives are oblivious to the nature of satire.

Well, it isn't satire. The tone is serious. The director clearly states that it is a critique of the hyper-sexualization of young girls in our culture. The movie is about how a young immigrant girl navigates her conservative, immigrant background and the hyper-sexualized milieu that exists in her adopted country.

The controversy reminds me of the one surrounding the movie Kids.

Humor is a common but not a neccessary feature of satire. Satire can merely spotlight some aspect of society to foster critical examination of it.
 
Back
Top Bottom