Daunte Wright shot with Taser. And by "taser," I mean, "Gun."

[Gospel]

It's a good thing the police found that gun on the scene where he was killed. Right? Right, Derec?

Had a gun been found on him, Potter would not have been on trial. Not even in Keith Ellison's Minnesota.

Very true. This is also true for any black person, even ones without priors and licensed to carry. "Feared for my life" is the get out of jail free card.

Honestly, I think if race weren't a factor, Potter wouldn't have been charged.

Wright had a history of gun violence and jumped towards the reasonable place for him to have a deadly weapon. The cop had about a second to respond to the possibility that he would come up shooting.

Leaving race out of it. What would you, or any reasonable person, have done under those exact circumstances(without the clarity of hindsight, which we all have now)?
Tom

I would have said stop or I'll shoot. Not taser taser taser.

 

[Derec]

A "no u r" riposte - boring, irrelevant and stupid.

It is about the right level of response to what you wrote.

Ah, a "whataboutism" based on race and your "truthiness" version of the facts.

Not at all.

Mr. Noor was originally sentenced to 12.5 years. The sentence was reduced to a ruling by the Mn Supreme Court

That ruling was an outrage given that he murdered an innocent woman for no reason.
Note how Keith Ellison has involved himself personally in the Potter case but has done nothing to fight for justice for Justine Damond.

The stench you smell is your own bias.

Or rather the bias of Keith Ellison and of the MN Supreme Court (which is 5/7 Democratic). If Noor wasn't guilty of 3rd degree murder, how is Derek Chauvin?

 

[Derec]

It's easier to not see such overt racism as perhaps you and I did when we were kids. Not too many KKK marches, but there are still some, especially during Trump's reign.

I fail to see how what you wrote about your town proves your thesis that white people dealing drugs in the streets are not getting arrested and prosecuted.
About KKK marches, I am sure there are some, just like there are marches by heavily armed black racist militias.
But sometimes there are rumors of such marches that are not true. When a black man was found hanging in Piedmont Park in Atlanta a few years ago, people insisted that it was a "lynching" and claimed that there was a KKK march in the park the day before. Except that there wasn't and it turned out the guy killed himself because his family did not accept he was gay.

Or just read these threads and notice how many people talk about certain neighborhoods being 'bad.'

Bad neighborhoods means high crime rates, run-down houses and commercial buildings etc. It's not about race.

Or voting rights. My dad's widow's grand daughter is (supposedly) engaged to the father of her 4 youngest children and he's a light skinned black man. My dad's widow really really struggles with being at family gatherings with that particular granddaughter.

"[H]er 4 youngest children"? How many does she have total? How old is she?
Maybe she isn't struggling so much with the race of her granddaughter's boyfriend, but that she pops out that many children outside of wedlock.

There are definitely favorites among her grandchildren and they are all white.

How many children do they have?

Personally, I see/know plenty of people who cannot speak enough about their admiration for Somali immigrants--and who sneer down their noses at black people who are descended from slaves. I know they really really do not see the difference in how they speak of and treat black people whose grandparents were likely born here.

Who are these "plenty of people" I wonder.

 

[Derec]

Very true. This is also true for any black person, even ones without priors and licensed to carry. "Feared for my life" is the get out of jail free card.

It's not really about race, but about (perceived) threat level. In the case of Philadndro Castile (who had a licensed gun but the cop thought he was pulling it out and shot him) there was a murder prosecution. I can't think of any other similar case. Vast majority of cases involve illegal guns and/or threatening behavior on part of the suspect.
Like this idiot in Jacksonville who had a gun on the driver seat and dove back into the car.

 

[Derec]

Apparently Potter had never used either her gun or the taser in the line of duty before.

Not sure about tasers, but vast majority of cops don't shoot their gun in anger at all throughout their careers.

Wright was pulled over by an over eager trainee for a minor infraction and killed by an officer who had never before had occasion to use either her gun or taser. Talk about a tragedy of errors.

Minor infraction that still caught a warrant. And Potter wasn't the only one who made a mistake. So did Wright.

 

[blastula]

I watched the closings and my vote is not guilty on both charges. To me, the case hinges on the word "conscious" in the charges. For the first, she had to,

commit a conscious or intentional act in connection with the handling or use of a firearm that creates a substantial and unjustifiable risk that she is aware of

For the second,

created an unreasonable risk and consciously took a chance of causing death or great bodily harm

The instructions don't define it any further, and the two sides gave conflicting interpretations, but I agree more with the defense, that it's not conscious if she didn't know she was doing it. She thought she was tasing him, not shooting him. If tasing in that circumstance were reckless, then guilty, but I don't think it would have been (despite the known cases of death by taser).

The state made a lot out of all the training she went through, which they say makes it reckless of her to make this mistake. I think that's backwards, being trained is the opposite of reckless. The only thing brought up about the taser that could be reckless is that she didn't do a spark test that day like she is required to do, and in fact had been lax at it in recent workdays. Maybe handling the taser more would have helped her that day. But I'd need to see some testimony that that's crucial enough to cause the mistake.

Maybe her training was inadequate or poorly designed or the tasers need to be designed better to prevent this confusion (not the first case of homicide by weapon confusion), but then that's not her fault as much as the city or tasers. I don't know why there hasn't been a civil suit yet by the family, civil court is where the case better belongs. There should be some restitution over this.

Some comments on the attorneys. Both sides were making an annoying amount of contradictory arguments over the same evidence. The state wanted the fact that the car was not moving to mean that the car wasn't a threat, yet also argued that it's policy not to shoot at someone in a moving vehicle. They also argued that Potter's family connections are irrelevant, while Wright's were. And they argued Potter knew deadly force was inappropriate here because she said "i will tase you," but also that she was consciously responsible for using deadly force. The defense argued vice versa on all of that. All the attorneys were okay otherwise, but the defense guy Earl Gray (really) rubbed me wrong with with his forced folksiness and hyper-indignancy and constant throat clearing and other mouth sounds.

Note to all defense lawyers, stop objecting during closing, whiny motherfuckers. Everyone hates you when you do this.

 

[blastula]

Honestly, I think if race weren't a factor, Potter wouldn't have been charged.

Wright had a history of gun violence and jumped towards the reasonable place for him to have a deadly weapon. The cop had about a second to respond to the possibility that he would come up shooting.

Potter didn't try to tase him because of a possible gun, but because he was going to flee.

I see no reason to believe that.

It's possible. But I see no reason to think he believed he could flee.

Then you don't know the facts of the case.

I don't think you do either.

Based on?

The part of my post that you snipped out and ignored.

Which was,

Maybe he did. But he wouldn't have gotten a mile down the road, given everything. Maybe he was so methed he thought he could escape by car. I dunno. I find that implausible, but I know that people on drugs make remarkably bad, sometimes fatal, choices.

Otherwise, I don't know why Wright would have made the choice that left him dead and Potter a mess and a community disaster.

Which contains zero facts in the case. Why are you bringing meth into this? That's your invention.

I don't know why you are pretending here when there is not even any disagreement between the two sides on whether she wanted to tase him to stop him from fleeing. The police were fighting with him to get him to not start the car, fighting over the stick and the keys, all testified to by the other cops. Wright even drove off and tried to flee after he was shot.

If they thought he had a gun, they should have had their guns out, but none of them did except by mistake.

 

[Gospel]

Very true. This is also true for any black person, even ones without priors and licensed to carry. "Feared for my life" is the get out of jail free card.

It's not really about race, but about (perceived) threat level. In the case of Philadndro Castile (who had a licensed gun but the cop thought he was pulling it out and shot him) there was a murder prosecution. I can't think of any other similar case. Vast majority of cases involve illegal guns and/or threatening behavior on part of the suspect.
Like this idiot in Jacksonville who had a gun on the driver seat and dove back into the car.

The issue is not the vast majority of cases involving illegal guns, it's the police giving off the impression they are incapable of telling apart those cases from the regular people going about their damn business resulting in the creation of dangerous situations unnecessarily.

For example:


It's like they were running around arresting every black person they see, sometimes even the same person twice.

 

[Jarhyn]

Apparently Potter had never used either her gun or the taser in the line of duty before.

To recap: according to Potter’s testimony, the trainee made the decision to pull Wright over for the hanging air freshener, something that she would not have done. The expired tags were an infraction that was being ignored very widely —which was policy at the time because COVID was making it difficult for people to get their tags.

Wright was pulled over by an over eager trainee for a minor infraction and killed by an officer who had never before had occasion to use either her gun or taser. Talk about a tragedy of errors.

This is what separates those spouting bad faith from those with good faith:

Toni here has DEFENDED a cop. It happens fairly regularly that I defend cops too, like when the preacher told a cop a protestor assaulted them and the cop moved on the protestor (the cop did the ostensibly right thing on wrong information).

I defended the cop here too. So did Gospel.

This is a very different behavior from the what I would pose as bad faith: attempts to drag the victim. Of course this is always a non sequitur, an Ad Hom attack.

It wouldn't matter if the victim was literally actually for realsies Time-Traveling-Hitler driving for realsies his actual touring car complete with Nazi flags: Pulling him over and shooting him would not be due process.

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

When did this happen?

In the mid-80's when I was in high school.

The reason I ask is because all sorts of things used to happen that don't any more. Ugly forms of racism that have gone away through the years. The world I grew up in(late 60s-early 70s USA) doesn't exist any more.

You're wrong. I have been the victim of racist attacks several times over the past 30 years (I'm brown and married to a white woman living in the South), and I have witnessed overt, ugly racism with my own eyes. I have seen how police treat poor black people, and I have stepped in on a couple of occasions and been threatened with arrest. The police won't arrest an educated man dressed in a suit, because they understand there will be repercussions, but that doesn't stop them from harassing people who don't know their rights. Racism is alive and well in America.

But listening to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1967 or something.
Tom

It is hidden under a thin veneer of civility amongst the well-heeled, and flaunted openly by others. Over 75 million people voted for Trump in the last election, knowing fully well what he was. That should tell you something.

... The strangest (probably bad) idea occurred to me of a service that buys or even designs business attire and lease it for a dollar to disadvantaged families so as to appear too wealthy to arrest, and such that if arrested while wearing this, they will see legal representation. Maybe also offer free services for cleaning and such, and showers while they wait.

It's like a charity or nonprofit that gives folks a different kind of armor.

 

[atrib]

Apparently Potter had never used either her gun or the taser in the line of duty before.

To recap: according to Potter’s testimony, the trainee made the decision to pull Wright over for the hanging air freshener, something that she would not have done. The expired tags were an infraction that was being ignored very widely —which was policy at the time because COVID was making it difficult for people to get their tags.

Wright was pulled over by an over eager trainee for a minor infraction and killed by an officer who had never before had occasion to use either her gun or taser. Talk about a tragedy of errors.

This is what separates those spouting bad faith from those with good faith:

Toni here has DEFENDED a cop. It happens fairly regularly that I defend cops too, like when the preacher told a cop a protestor assaulted them and the cop moved on the protestor (the cop did the ostensibly right thing on wrong information).

I defended the cop here too. So did Gospel.

This is a very different behavior from the what I would pose as bad faith: attempts to drag the victim. Of course this is always a non sequitur, an Ad Hom attack.

It wouldn't matter if the victim was literally actually for realsies Time-Traveling-Hitler driving for realsies his actual touring car complete with Nazi flags: Pulling him over and shooting him would not be due process.

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

When did this happen?

In the mid-80's when I was in high school.

The reason I ask is because all sorts of things used to happen that don't any more. Ugly forms of racism that have gone away through the years. The world I grew up in(late 60s-early 70s USA) doesn't exist any more.

You're wrong. I have been the victim of racist attacks several times over the past 30 years (I'm brown and married to a white woman living in the South), and I have witnessed overt, ugly racism with my own eyes. I have seen how police treat poor black people, and I have stepped in on a couple of occasions and been threatened with arrest. The police won't arrest an educated man dressed in a suit, because they understand there will be repercussions, but that doesn't stop them from harassing people who don't know their rights. Racism is alive and well in America.

But listening to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1967 or something.
Tom

It is hidden under a thin veneer of civility amongst the well-heeled, and flaunted openly by others. Over 75 million people voted for Trump in the last election, knowing fully well what he was. That should tell you something.

... The strangest (probably bad) idea occurred to me of a service that buys or even designs business attire and lease it for a dollar to disadvantaged families so as to appear too wealthy to arrest, and such that if arrested while wearing this, they will see legal representation. Maybe also offer free services for cleaning and such, and showers while they wait.

It's like a charity or nonprofit that gives folks a different kind of armor.

Its not just the clothes, its also how you talk and carry yourself. Those are harder to mimic.

 

[Jarhyn]

Apparently Potter had never used either her gun or the taser in the line of duty before.

To recap: according to Potter’s testimony, the trainee made the decision to pull Wright over for the hanging air freshener, something that she would not have done. The expired tags were an infraction that was being ignored very widely —which was policy at the time because COVID was making it difficult for people to get their tags.

Wright was pulled over by an over eager trainee for a minor infraction and killed by an officer who had never before had occasion to use either her gun or taser. Talk about a tragedy of errors.

This is what separates those spouting bad faith from those with good faith:

Toni here has DEFENDED a cop. It happens fairly regularly that I defend cops too, like when the preacher told a cop a protestor assaulted them and the cop moved on the protestor (the cop did the ostensibly right thing on wrong information).

I defended the cop here too. So did Gospel.

This is a very different behavior from the what I would pose as bad faith: attempts to drag the victim. Of course this is always a non sequitur, an Ad Hom attack.

It wouldn't matter if the victim was literally actually for realsies Time-Traveling-Hitler driving for realsies his actual touring car complete with Nazi flags: Pulling him over and shooting him would not be due process.

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

When did this happen?

In the mid-80's when I was in high school.

The reason I ask is because all sorts of things used to happen that don't any more. Ugly forms of racism that have gone away through the years. The world I grew up in(late 60s-early 70s USA) doesn't exist any more.

You're wrong. I have been the victim of racist attacks several times over the past 30 years (I'm brown and married to a white woman living in the South), and I have witnessed overt, ugly racism with my own eyes. I have seen how police treat poor black people, and I have stepped in on a couple of occasions and been threatened with arrest. The police won't arrest an educated man dressed in a suit, because they understand there will be repercussions, but that doesn't stop them from harassing people who don't know their rights. Racism is alive and well in America.

But listening to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1967 or something.
Tom

It is hidden under a thin veneer of civility amongst the well-heeled, and flaunted openly by others. Over 75 million people voted for Trump in the last election, knowing fully well what he was. That should tell you something.

... The strangest (probably bad) idea occurred to me of a service that buys or even designs business attire and lease it for a dollar to disadvantaged families so as to appear too wealthy to arrest, and such that if arrested while wearing this, they will see legal representation. Maybe also offer free services for cleaning and such, and showers while they wait.

It's like a charity or nonprofit that gives folks a different kind of armor.

Its not just the clothes, its also how you talk and carry yourself. Those are harder to mimic.

That's harder to see from across the street though, and oftentimes people can at the very least act to the clothes most days.

Also why the legal service offerings: the suit is no bluff on legal representation.

 

[Toni]

Apparently Potter had never used either her gun or the taser in the line of duty before.

Not sure about tasers, but vast majority of cops don't shoot their gun in anger at all throughout their careers.

Wright was pulled over by an over eager trainee for a minor infraction and killed by an officer who had never before had occasion to use either her gun or taser. Talk about a tragedy of errors.

Minor infraction that still caught a warrant. And Potter wasn't the only one who made a mistake. So did Wright.

Yes, most cops do not ever need to use tasers or weapons. Thank heavens. Too many people end up dead when police officers (or civilians who are playing cop) use guns and tasers.

Police officers and private citizens should NEVER fire a weapon out of anger. The only reason a police officer should ever use their weapon is if there is no other choice in order to stop someone from significantly harming others.

I am not certain where your use of the word ANGER came from. Maybe you could explain?

The minor infraction that few officers would have pulled anyone over, especially during COVID (expired tags is a bigger deal and officers were instructed to ignore expired tags) cost Wright his life and Potter her career and perhaps some years of her time. No doubt a lot of sleepless nights, tears, anguish, guilt, heartbreak for her and obviously for Wright's family.

You write as though you are talking about a video game with cartoon characters or a cheap paperback crime novel from the 40's. These are real people with real lives. You may not value Wright's life but he did and so did his family. I'm certain he wasn't a good guy but at 20 he could have possibly changed his life. Now he has no life. Wright was neither tried nor convicted of the crime for which he was accused--and he's dead because someone couldn't tell the difference between a taser and a gun. I listened/watched video of the encounter once and only once but I heard panic in Potter's voice. Apparently all 3 officers were very alarmed and perhaps even panicked. Wright likely tried to re-enter the car because he panicked. No one makes good decisions when they are panicked. One person is dead. Another person's career is dead and she will have to live with the consequences of her mistake forever. That's not a good outcome for any of us.

And more than that, it further inflames racial tensions and makes it more likely that suspects will try to evade arrest. As if George Floyd's death wasn't enough. Or any of the other shootings/tasering to death of (usually young)black men by police.

This has got to stop.

 

[Toni]

Apparently Potter had never used either her gun or the taser in the line of duty before.

To recap: according to Potter’s testimony, the trainee made the decision to pull Wright over for the hanging air freshener, something that she would not have done. The expired tags were an infraction that was being ignored very widely —which was policy at the time because COVID was making it difficult for people to get their tags.

Wright was pulled over by an over eager trainee for a minor infraction and killed by an officer who had never before had occasion to use either her gun or taser. Talk about a tragedy of errors.

This is what separates those spouting bad faith from those with good faith:

Toni here has DEFENDED a cop. It happens fairly regularly that I defend cops too, like when the preacher told a cop a protestor assaulted them and the cop moved on the protestor (the cop did the ostensibly right thing on wrong information).

I defended the cop here too. So did Gospel.

This is a very different behavior from the what I would pose as bad faith: attempts to drag the victim. Of course this is always a non sequitur, an Ad Hom attack.

It wouldn't matter if the victim was literally actually for realsies Time-Traveling-Hitler driving for realsies his actual touring car complete with Nazi flags: Pulling him over and shooting him would not be due process.

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

When did this happen?

In the mid-80's when I was in high school.

The reason I ask is because all sorts of things used to happen that don't any more. Ugly forms of racism that have gone away through the years. The world I grew up in(late 60s-early 70s USA) doesn't exist any more.

You're wrong. I have been the victim of racist attacks several times over the past 30 years (I'm brown and married to a white woman living in the South), and I have witnessed overt, ugly racism with my own eyes. I have seen how police treat poor black people, and I have stepped in on a couple of occasions and been threatened with arrest. The police won't arrest an educated man dressed in a suit, because they understand there will be repercussions, but that doesn't stop them from harassing people who don't know their rights. Racism is alive and well in America.

But listening to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1967 or something.
Tom

It is hidden under a thin veneer of civility amongst the well-heeled, and flaunted openly by others. Over 75 million people voted for Trump in the last election, knowing fully well what he was. That should tell you something.

... The strangest (probably bad) idea occurred to me of a service that buys or even designs business attire and lease it for a dollar to disadvantaged families so as to appear too wealthy to arrest, and such that if arrested while wearing this, they will see legal representation. Maybe also offer free services for cleaning and such, and showers while they wait.

It's like a charity or nonprofit that gives folks a different kind of armor.

I wasn't defending anyone. I was offering context. I am certain that Potter made a mistake and one that she nor any other police officer should ever make. It cost Wright his life and Potter her career and a lifetime of consequences. I'm certain that if she could go back in time, she'd have done something very different. I think that Wright panicked and Potter panicked and frankly, it didn't sound as though any of the police officers were calm.

BTW, there are services that will rent designer clothes for small fees or and businesses that sell gently/never worn designer clothes for deep discounts. In my town, there is a Goodwill and also another service that sell clothing for very, very, very cheap. Cheap don't matter if you don't have coin (in which case, the one service will provide you with some clothes) but nothing will erase the color of your skin. I will grant you that dressing in a certain manner certainly will help dissuade cops from thinking you are a criminal but not always. Remember the professor (Dr. Louis Gates of Harvard) who was arrested for trying to enter his own home. Through the front door.

 

[Jarhyn]

Apparently Potter had never used either her gun or the taser in the line of duty before.

To recap: according to Potter’s testimony, the trainee made the decision to pull Wright over for the hanging air freshener, something that she would not have done. The expired tags were an infraction that was being ignored very widely —which was policy at the time because COVID was making it difficult for people to get their tags.

Wright was pulled over by an over eager trainee for a minor infraction and killed by an officer who had never before had occasion to use either her gun or taser. Talk about a tragedy of errors.

This is what separates those spouting bad faith from those with good faith:

Toni here has DEFENDED a cop. It happens fairly regularly that I defend cops too, like when the preacher told a cop a protestor assaulted them and the cop moved on the protestor (the cop did the ostensibly right thing on wrong information).

I defended the cop here too. So did Gospel.

This is a very different behavior from the what I would pose as bad faith: attempts to drag the victim. Of course this is always a non sequitur, an Ad Hom attack.

It wouldn't matter if the victim was literally actually for realsies Time-Traveling-Hitler driving for realsies his actual touring car complete with Nazi flags: Pulling him over and shooting him would not be due process.

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

When did this happen?

In the mid-80's when I was in high school.

The reason I ask is because all sorts of things used to happen that don't any more. Ugly forms of racism that have gone away through the years. The world I grew up in(late 60s-early 70s USA) doesn't exist any more.

You're wrong. I have been the victim of racist attacks several times over the past 30 years (I'm brown and married to a white woman living in the South), and I have witnessed overt, ugly racism with my own eyes. I have seen how police treat poor black people, and I have stepped in on a couple of occasions and been threatened with arrest. The police won't arrest an educated man dressed in a suit, because they understand there will be repercussions, but that doesn't stop them from harassing people who don't know their rights. Racism is alive and well in America.

But listening to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1967 or something.
Tom

It is hidden under a thin veneer of civility amongst the well-heeled, and flaunted openly by others. Over 75 million people voted for Trump in the last election, knowing fully well what he was. That should tell you something.

... The strangest (probably bad) idea occurred to me of a service that buys or even designs business attire and lease it for a dollar to disadvantaged families so as to appear too wealthy to arrest, and such that if arrested while wearing this, they will see legal representation. Maybe also offer free services for cleaning and such, and showers while they wait.

It's like a charity or nonprofit that gives folks a different kind of armor.

I wasn't defending anyone. I was offering context. I am certain that Potter made a mistake and one that she nor any other police officer should ever make. It cost Wright his life and Potter her career and a lifetime of consequences. I'm certain that if she could go back in time, she'd have done something very different. I think that Wright panicked and Potter panicked and frankly, it didn't sound as though any of the police officers were calm.

BTW, there are services that will rent designer clothes for small fees or and businesses that sell gently/never worn designer clothes for deep discounts. In my town, there is a Goodwill and also another service that sell clothing for very, very, very cheap. Cheap don't matter if you don't have coin (in which case, the one service will provide you with some clothes) but nothing will erase the color of your skin. I will grant you that dressing in a certain manner certainly will help dissuade cops from thinking you are a criminal but not always. Remember the professor (Dr. Louis Gates of Harvard) who was arrested for trying to enter his own home. Through the front door.

Indeed. Also why legal services. It would make shooting someone wearing a particular attire an unacceptable gamble. And then if it is something that can be easily duplicated and faked, it makes that risk metastatic.

Assuming I have resources to devote to this over more significant offerings.

 

[atrib]

Apparently Potter had never used either her gun or the taser in the line of duty before.

To recap: according to Potter’s testimony, the trainee made the decision to pull Wright over for the hanging air freshener, something that she would not have done. The expired tags were an infraction that was being ignored very widely —which was policy at the time because COVID was making it difficult for people to get their tags.

Wright was pulled over by an over eager trainee for a minor infraction and killed by an officer who had never before had occasion to use either her gun or taser. Talk about a tragedy of errors.

This is what separates those spouting bad faith from those with good faith:

Toni here has DEFENDED a cop. It happens fairly regularly that I defend cops too, like when the preacher told a cop a protestor assaulted them and the cop moved on the protestor (the cop did the ostensibly right thing on wrong information).

I defended the cop here too. So did Gospel.

This is a very different behavior from the what I would pose as bad faith: attempts to drag the victim. Of course this is always a non sequitur, an Ad Hom attack.

It wouldn't matter if the victim was literally actually for realsies Time-Traveling-Hitler driving for realsies his actual touring car complete with Nazi flags: Pulling him over and shooting him would not be due process.

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

When did this happen?

In the mid-80's when I was in high school.

The reason I ask is because all sorts of things used to happen that don't any more. Ugly forms of racism that have gone away through the years. The world I grew up in(late 60s-early 70s USA) doesn't exist any more.

You're wrong. I have been the victim of racist attacks several times over the past 30 years (I'm brown and married to a white woman living in the South), and I have witnessed overt, ugly racism with my own eyes. I have seen how police treat poor black people, and I have stepped in on a couple of occasions and been threatened with arrest. The police won't arrest an educated man dressed in a suit, because they understand there will be repercussions, but that doesn't stop them from harassing people who don't know their rights. Racism is alive and well in America.

But listening to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1967 or something.
Tom

It is hidden under a thin veneer of civility amongst the well-heeled, and flaunted openly by others. Over 75 million people voted for Trump in the last election, knowing fully well what he was. That should tell you something.

... The strangest (probably bad) idea occurred to me of a service that buys or even designs business attire and lease it for a dollar to disadvantaged families so as to appear too wealthy to arrest, and such that if arrested while wearing this, they will see legal representation. Maybe also offer free services for cleaning and such, and showers while they wait.

It's like a charity or nonprofit that gives folks a different kind of armor.

Its not just the clothes, its also how you talk and carry yourself. Those are harder to mimic.

That's harder to see from across the street though, and oftentimes people can at the very least act to the clothes most days.

Also why the legal service offerings: the suit is no bluff on legal representation.

People who are well off and/or educated also tend to be knowledgeable about their rights, and more willing to stand up for them. They also have the innate confidence that comes from being financially secure. In my experience police tend to act like bullies, and will back down when they are faced with a person willing to assert their rights.

 

[Gospel]

In my experience police tend to act like bullies, and will back down when they are faced with a person willing to assert their rights.

Mine too and I'll take a wild guess as to why. They have a cozy relationship with state prosecutors, public defenders, and judges.

 

[Gospel]

I could never understand how America has three heads but on the state level, it's basically one.

 

[atrib]

In my experience police tend to act like bullies, and will back down when they are faced with a person willing to assert their rights.

Mine too and I'll take a wild guess as to why. They have a cozy relationship with state prosecutors, public defenders, and judges.

And cell phone cameras and body cameras tend to level the playing field somewhat today.

 

[Jarhyn]

I could never understand how America has three heads but on the state level, it's basically one.

... And that head is lodged firmly up the asshole it's attached to.

 

[Toni]

Apparently Potter had never used either her gun or the taser in the line of duty before.

To recap: according to Potter’s testimony, the trainee made the decision to pull Wright over for the hanging air freshener, something that she would not have done. The expired tags were an infraction that was being ignored very widely —which was policy at the time because COVID was making it difficult for people to get their tags.

Wright was pulled over by an over eager trainee for a minor infraction and killed by an officer who had never before had occasion to use either her gun or taser. Talk about a tragedy of errors.

This is what separates those spouting bad faith from those with good faith:

Toni here has DEFENDED a cop. It happens fairly regularly that I defend cops too, like when the preacher told a cop a protestor assaulted them and the cop moved on the protestor (the cop did the ostensibly right thing on wrong information).

I defended the cop here too. So did Gospel.

This is a very different behavior from the what I would pose as bad faith: attempts to drag the victim. Of course this is always a non sequitur, an Ad Hom attack.

It wouldn't matter if the victim was literally actually for realsies Time-Traveling-Hitler driving for realsies his actual touring car complete with Nazi flags: Pulling him over and shooting him would not be due process.

White people in your area get busted for dealing drugs on the street? Where I live, not so much and it's a very, very white place.

Of course white people get busted when they deal drugs in the street. Where do you live anyway? Pleasantville?

I grew up in Stamford, CT, and I knew several white kids in my school who would habitually get caught smoking pot by the police and never even get arrested. It was a running joke in the community. Black kids on the other hand.....

When did this happen?

In the mid-80's when I was in high school.

The reason I ask is because all sorts of things used to happen that don't any more. Ugly forms of racism that have gone away through the years. The world I grew up in(late 60s-early 70s USA) doesn't exist any more.

You're wrong. I have been the victim of racist attacks several times over the past 30 years (I'm brown and married to a white woman living in the South), and I have witnessed overt, ugly racism with my own eyes. I have seen how police treat poor black people, and I have stepped in on a couple of occasions and been threatened with arrest. The police won't arrest an educated man dressed in a suit, because they understand there will be repercussions, but that doesn't stop them from harassing people who don't know their rights. Racism is alive and well in America.

But listening to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1967 or something.
Tom

It is hidden under a thin veneer of civility amongst the well-heeled, and flaunted openly by others. Over 75 million people voted for Trump in the last election, knowing fully well what he was. That should tell you something.

... The strangest (probably bad) idea occurred to me of a service that buys or even designs business attire and lease it for a dollar to disadvantaged families so as to appear too wealthy to arrest, and such that if arrested while wearing this, they will see legal representation. Maybe also offer free services for cleaning and such, and showers while they wait.

It's like a charity or nonprofit that gives folks a different kind of armor.

Its not just the clothes, its also how you talk and carry yourself. Those are harder to mimic.

That's harder to see from across the street though, and oftentimes people can at the very least act to the clothes most days.

Also why the legal service offerings: the suit is no bluff on legal representation.

People who are well off and/or educated also tend to be knowledgeable about their rights, and more willing to stand up for them. They also have the innate confidence that comes from being financially secure. In my experience police tend to act like bullies, and will back down when they are faced with a person willing to assert their rights.

There's also a certain confidence that comes from growing up believing and having every reason to believe that law enforcement were there to help you, that you could call law enforcement if you needed their help without any risk of any kind to yourself. Very much helped by having white skin. I didn't have money growing up but I did have white skin and was insulated enough that I never was aware that the police looked at anybody as a criminal unless they knew they were a criminal.