Delivering For FedEx While Black

[laughing dog]

I am trying to come up with a scenario where two citizens are allowed to shoot at someone driving a vehicle and I really cannot. Much less when a delivery driver is doing his Fed Ex job.

Nobody on this forum has suggested any such thing.
According to reports, even the perps know that they're in trouble. Big trouble.

Why are you so determined that these men
we’re justified?

Nobody on this forum has tried to do that. Pointing out that there's not a coherent narrative, based on media reports, isn't justifying anything. Why are you determined to accuse people of doing that?
Tom

Why do you insist on a coherent narrative in this case? Can you come up with a coherent narrative that is consistent with initial reporting and that justifies this pair's behavior?

If you cannot, then any more information may be of use in judging whether these two are racial bigots or not, but will not provide any justification for their behavior,

 

[LoAmmo]

Why do you insist on a coherent narrative in this case? Can you come up with a coherent narrative that is consistent with initial reporting and that justifies this pair's behavior?

If you cannot, then any more information may be of use in judging whether these two are racial bigots or not, but will not provide any justification for their behavior,

(Bolding and colorization mine)

Tom C. is certainly more than capable of articulating his own position, but if I may, I think you may be misunderstanding him.
In my mind, he has not, not once, attempted to JUSTIFY the Case's actions so much as he has, reasonably, posited that *something*, some factor not detailed in the media reporting, MAY go a long way towards EXPLAINING the Case's motivation/reason. Which still will not justify their actions. Tom C. has been consistent in labeling their actions as stupid, reckless, illegal, etc.

What I'm hearing him say is more analogous to, "wonder what made them go off like that" than it is to "Meh--there's gotta be more than this story than is being reported, so, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt."

Note that the Case's "reason" (if it ever even comes to light, or, can be believed IF one comes to light) isn't ultimately going to matter; there's no good reason for what they did, based on what we know so far at least. They're on the hook for this, and their motivations don't really matter.

Let's just wildly speculate that the Cases had recently heard something about fake delivery drivers robbing houses in rented vehicles made to look like FedEx trucks. And so they made a mistake, which wouldn't be entirely unreasonable, and jumped to a conclusion.
That might EXPLAIN their actions while still not JUSTIFYING them, since even if the driver WAS a fake, driving a decoy, and planning to rob their house, you can't follow them down the road shooting at them. That's a job for cops.

I note also that if that scenario was, for discussion's sake, their true motivation, it would also neuter the (admittedly sexier) angle of racism that the media tends to want to overplay before they know all the facts. It's possible that the Cases couldn't care less that the driver was black; their problem with him was that they thought he was posing as a FedEx driver to commit robbery.

We don't know that part, and possibly never will. Which still leaves their actions unjustified.

 

[TomC]

Why do you insist on a coherent narrative in this case? Can you come up with a coherent narrative that is consistent with initial reporting and that justifies this pair's behavior?

If you cannot, then any more information may be of use in judging whether these two are racial bigots or not, but will not provide any justification for their behavior,

(Bolding and colorization mine)

Tom C. is certainly more than capable of articulating his own position, but if I may, I think you may be misunderstanding him.
In my mind, he has not, not once, attempted to JUSTIFY the Case's actions so much as he has, reasonably, posited that *something*, some factor not detailed in the media reporting, MAY go a long way towards EXPLAINING the Case's motivation/reason. Which still will not justify their actions. Tom C. has been consistent in labeling their actions as stupid, reckless, illegal, etc.

What I'm hearing him say is more analogous to, "wonder what made them go off like that" than it is to "Meh--there's gotta be more than this story than is being reported, so, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt."

Note that the Case's "reason" (if it ever even comes to light, or, can be believed IF one comes to light) isn't ultimately going to matter; there's no good reason for what they did, based on what we know so far at least. They're on the hook for this, and their motivations don't really matter.

Let's just wildly speculate that the Cases had recently heard something about fake delivery drivers robbing houses in rented vehicles made to look like FedEx trucks. And so they made a mistake, which wouldn't be entirely unreasonable, and jumped to a conclusion.
That might EXPLAIN their actions while still not JUSTIFYING them, since even if the driver WAS a fake, driving a decoy, and planning to rob their house, you can't follow them down the road shooting at them. That's a job for cops.

I note also that if that scenario was, for discussion's sake, their true motivation, it would also neuter the (admittedly sexier) angle of racism that the media tends to want to overplay before they know all the facts. It's possible that the Cases couldn't care less that the driver was black; their problem with him was that they thought he was posing as a FedEx driver to commit robbery.

We don't know that part, and possibly never will. Which still leaves their actions unjustified.

I wish I could give this post 50 likes.
You nailed it.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Why do you insist on a coherent narrative in this case? Can you come up with a coherent narrative that is consistent with initial reporting and that justifies this pair's behavior?

If you cannot, then any more information may be of use in judging whether these two are racial bigots or not, but will not provide any justification for their behavior,

(Bolding and colorization mine)

Tom C. is certainly more than capable of articulating his own position, but if I may, I think you may be misunderstanding him.
In my mind, he has not, not once, attempted to JUSTIFY the Case's actions so much as he has, reasonably, posited that *something*, some factor not detailed in the media reporting, MAY go a long way towards EXPLAINING the Case's motivation/reason. Which still will not justify their actions. Tom C. has been consistent in labeling their actions as stupid, reckless, illegal, etc.

What I'm hearing him say is more analogous to, "wonder what made them go off like that" than it is to "Meh--there's gotta be more than this story than is being reported, so, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt."

Note that the Case's "reason" (if it ever even comes to light, or, can be believed IF one comes to light) isn't ultimately going to matter; there's no good reason for what they did, based on what we know so far at least. They're on the hook for this, and their motivations don't really matter.

Let's just wildly speculate that the Cases had recently heard something about fake delivery drivers robbing houses in rented vehicles made to look like FedEx trucks. And so they made a mistake, which wouldn't be entirely unreasonable, and jumped to a conclusion.
That might EXPLAIN their actions while still not JUSTIFYING them, since even if the driver WAS a fake, driving a decoy, and planning to rob their house, you can't follow them down the road shooting at them. That's a job for cops.

I note also that if that scenario was, for discussion's sake, their true motivation, it would also neuter the (admittedly sexier) angle of racism that the media tends to want to overplay before they know all the facts. It's possible that the Cases couldn't care less that the driver was black; their problem with him was that they thought he was posing as a FedEx driver to commit robbery.

We don't know that part, and possibly never will. Which still leaves their actions unjustified

Thank you but I fully understood his position. He initially refused to make any judgment on the grounds of a lack of information. My point, which you seem to have missed, is that there is no information that justifies their behavior at all. Whatever we learn may induce readers to re-examine their conclusion of racism but nothing else of substance.

 

[TomC]

Thank you but I fully understood his position.

You've made it clear that you don't.
You've made that so clear that I find this post quite dishonest. Maybe it's just mumbly back pedalling, it's hard to tell.

I have never suggested that shooting at a truck on a public road is justifiable. Never.

What I have pointed out is that I don't know why they did it. The story, as told, doesn't make any sense. But this wouldn't be the first time a bunch of racist ideologues refused to see information that interfered with their "white people bad, black people victims" narrative.
Tom

 

[thebeave]

Perhaps in the future, we could initially call threads like this, "Delivering for FedEx While Human" until we get more detailed info on the event. If it turns out to be racially motivated, then the mods could rename it, "Delivering for FedEx While Black" and then have a whole 'nother level of conversation about it.

 

[LoAmmo]

My point, which you seem to have missed, is that there is no information that justifies their behavior at all.

How can you say with a straight face that I "missed the point" (that nothing justifies their behavior at all) when I said LITERALLY that, multiple times in my post?

Which still will not justify their actions.

Note that the Case's "reason"...isn't ultimately going to matter;

They're on the hook for this, and their motivations don't really matter.

That might EXPLAIN their actions while still not JUSTIFYING them, since even if the driver WAS a fake, driving a decoy, and planning to rob their house, you can't follow them down the road shooting at them. That's a job for cops.

Which still leaves their actions unjustified.

That's all me, in the same post, and you tell me I "missed the point" that nothing justifies their behavior at all? That's five fucking times in one post that I literally re-iterated the point that I, quote, "missed."

Is English your first language?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Can someone explain why this type of shit is a father-son activity? I mean, can't they just watch a football game, own the libs online, or go fishing?

 

[Metaphor]

There's one good reason to wait before judgment: once people make a public declaration of something, it makes it more difficult to walk it back. There is the possibility of unknown details emerging, or even the possibility that the initial reports were wrong.

One could always preface their judgment with 'if the facts are as reported', but people rarely do that.

 

[TomC]

Perhaps in the future, we could initially call threads like this, "Delivering for FedEx While Human" until we get more detailed info on the event. If it turns out to be racially motivated, then the mods could rename it, "Delivering for FedEx While Black" and then have a whole 'nother level of conversation about it.

Here's the thing.
"Assholish dudes escalate unprofessional delivery into road rage incident" wouldn't be as clicky as adding racist motivation. I'm confident it wouldn't have been more than a blip in local news, not a national event with it's own IIDB thread.
Tom

 

[thebeave]

Perhaps in the future, we could initially call threads like this, "Delivering for FedEx While Human" until we get more detailed info on the event. If it turns out to be racially motivated, then the mods could rename it, "Delivering for FedEx While Black" and then have a whole 'nother level of conversation about it.

Here's the thing.
"Assholish dudes escalate unprofessional delivery into road rage incident" wouldn't be as clicky as adding racist motivation. I'm confident it wouldn't have been more than a blip in local news, not a national event with it's own IIDB thread.
Tom

Yep. Apparently, it seems impossible for people to accept that whenever a white person and a black person get into some sort of conflict, it may not be race related. I wonder if we'll ever see the day when a black guy and a white guy can go at each other and we can attribute it to one or both of them being your basic knuckleheads and/or bullies.

 

[TomC]

Perhaps in the future, we could initially call threads like this, "Delivering for FedEx While Human" until we get more detailed info on the event. If it turns out to be racially motivated, then the mods could rename it, "Delivering for FedEx While Black" and then have a whole 'nother level of conversation about it.

Here's the thing.
"Assholish dudes escalate unprofessional delivery into road rage incident" wouldn't be as clicky as adding racist motivation. I'm confident it wouldn't have been more than a blip in local news, not a national event with it's own IIDB thread.
Tom

Yep. Apparently, it seems impossible for people to accept that whenever a white person and a black person get into some sort of conflict, it may not be race related. I wonder if we'll ever see the day when a black guy and a white guy can go at each other and we can attribute it to one or both of them being your basic knuckleheads and/or bullies.

I honestly believe that there's a sort of industry built around manufacturing racism to get people upset about. It sells media, so it's quite profitable.
BLM is a subsidiary.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Perhaps in the future, we could initially call threads like this, "Delivering for FedEx While Human" until we get more detailed info on the event. If it turns out to be racially motivated, then the mods could rename it, "Delivering for FedEx While Black" and then have a whole 'nother level of conversation about it.

Here's the thing.
"Assholish dudes escalate unprofessional delivery into road rage incident" wouldn't be as clicky as adding racist motivation. I'm confident it wouldn't have been more than a blip in local news, not a national event with it's own IIDB thread.
Tom

What was unprofessional about the delivery?

What do you think the headlines would be if the father and son were black? If the father and son were black and the FedEx driver was white?

 

[TomC]

What was unprofessional about the delivery?

How would I know? I'm the one pointing out that I don't know enough about the delivery to have a particular opinion about what happened.

Driving across the Case's yard certainly wasn't professional. So I can state, with as much authority as I would any media report based opinion, the driver did at least one thing that was unprofessional. The question remains, "Why?"

"White guys started threatening and shooting at a black guy for delivering a package" isn't a plausible explanation, at least not to me. That simplistic explanation might satisfy a racial ideologue, but I'm not one. I'm sure that there's more to the story. And I'm also confident that at least part of the blame is the driver's. Your assumption that he's an innocent victim of racism doesn't strike me as plausible.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

The question remains, "Why?"

Maybe being chased by trumpsuckers?

 

[TomC]

The question remains, "Why?"

Maybe being chased by trumpsuckers?

As long as we're saying stupid things starting with "Maybe..."

Maybe the Cases belonged to a rival drug gang and recognized the driver. That would explain everything.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

Yeah, I bet that's it.

 

[TomC]

Yeah, I bet that's it.

The depth of your insight is an inspiration to us all.
Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Maybe the perps did not notice their victim was a Black guy.

 

[laughing dog]

Thank you but I fully understood his position.

You've made it clear that you don't.
You've made that so clear that I find this post quite dishonest. Maybe it's just mumbly back pedalling, it's hard to tell.

Your lack of insight is disappointing to us all.

I have never suggested that shooting at a truck on a public road is justifiable. Never.

In your first post, you made a point of abstaining from making any judgment.

What I have pointed out is that I don't know why they did it. The story, as told, doesn't make any sense. But this wouldn't be the first time a bunch of racist ideologues refused to see information that interfered with their "white people bad, black people victims" narrative.
Tom

The lack of insight in your analysis is unsurprising. Nor would be the first time racist ideologues refused information that interfered with their "black people bad, white people victims" narrative.