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Dem Post Mortem

I Dems ever want to win another election, they and their supporters really need to acknowledge that the constant denigration and vilification of half the voting populace is a big part of the problem.
I don't think so. I do think, however they are going to have to counter the clearly emotional and irrational aspects of Orangemania. And that will be tough. Acting like a responsible adult using information and rational response clearly is not the right thing to do if winning a popular election based on theatrics is all that matters.

Nice to know that you think over 73 million people in the US fall into that category.

"Nice to know?" It isn't an appetizing observation at all. It is very much like what happened in Germany with Hitler. Einstein said it best when asked why he left and he replied "My country has gone mad."
 
How many of Trump's supporters know immigrants, illegals or not? I see them everyday. We exchange hellos but have a language barrier. I love those people. I always find them hard at work, and they seem to be a bit afraid of things. But they are beautiful and they work their asses off.

I was with friends last night and a common refrain was "I feel safer now." I don't get that. They must be living a world of paranoia and propaganda.
 
It was the poster of post 161 who averred that Harris ran a good campaign. The Shadow asked about such a strawman. I merely noted that strawman has already been presented by another.
I wrote the post number 161. I just repeated it. you are welcome to refute it if you can.
It is president-elect Trump not president-elect Harris ergo Harris ran a poorer campaign than Trump.
I know it is hard to acknowledgement you lost to a clown and a buffoon but reality doesn't not care about your feelings.
Note that I also asked how do you run a campaign against a campaign like Trump's. Would you care to take a shot at answering?
See bottom half of post 206 where I jot down some comments.
 
How about let’s all us libtards, commies, freaks, childless cat ladies, enemies of the people, queers, fags, the N-word and so on, take our ball and go home by setting up our own nation, and leaving the red-state rednecks to wallow in their own white-trash depravity, hmm?
... with blackjack and hookers?

Seriously though, not a great idea. Both nations would lack the moderating effects of the other side.
 
Pretending that Kamala Harris was the bestest candidate who ran a great campaign will not help Dems win in the future.
I agree, but who is presenting that strawman?
There were several posts saying that she was a "good candidate" or "ran a good campaign".
Use of "bestest" was a rhetorical device of sorts. I did not suggest that this adjective was used verbatim. My point is that pretending that there was nothing wrong with Kamala as a candidate or with her campaign is counterproductive.
 
You casually talking about "white bigotry" and at the same time say that voting choices of minorities should not be scrutinized at all.
I do oppose bigotry, I'll give you that.
What you wrote is not opposing bigotry. It's being selective about who you are willing to call out based on their race - whites are fair game (even going as far as name calling), but "minorities" should not be scrutinized in any way.
 
How about let’s all us libtards, commies, freaks, childless cat ladies, enemies of the people, queers, fags, the N-word and so on, take our ball and go home by setting up our own nation, and leaving the red-state rednecks to wallow in their own white-trash depravity, hmm?
... with blackjack and hookers?
Well... yeah. It wouldn't be in the south though. That'd be against Project 2025.
Seriously though, not a great idea. Both nations would lack the moderating effects of the other side.
Moderating effect? The Dems were going to sign off on immigration reform extorted out of them for Ukraine funding. And the GOP ended up dropping it at Trump's behest.
 
You casually talking about "white bigotry" and at the same time say that voting choices of minorities should not be scrutinized at all.
I do oppose bigotry, I'll give you that.
What you wrote is not opposing bigotry. It's being selective about who you are willing to call out based on their race - whites are fair game (even going as far as name calling), but "minorities" should not be scrutinized in any way.
I said no such thing.
 
How about let’s all us libtards, commies, freaks, childless cat ladies, enemies of the people, queers, fags, the N-word and so on, take our ball and go home by setting up our own nation, and leaving the red-state rednecks to wallow in their own white-trash depravity, hmm?
I thought that place was called California?
 
How about let’s all us libtards, commies, freaks, childless cat ladies, enemies of the people, queers, fags, the N-word and so on, take our ball and go home by setting up our own nation, and leaving the red-state rednecks to wallow in their own white-trash depravity, hmm?
I thought that place was called California?

California, New York, and several other reliably blue states. They would do quite well on their own without having to subsidize redneck red-state Trumpistan. Last I looked, California, if an independent nation, would have the seventh-largest world economy. Remember that the next time climate-change denialist Swizzle whines about the state he lives in. Also, I disagree with Lincoln and the 1869 Supreme Court decision. I think secession is perfectly constitutional.
 
I should also add that is perfectly Constitutional for the Electoral College to name Harris president. I know they won’t do it, but they can.
 
Still waiting for an answer. Anyone can participate.
I'll take a gander.
How do you know she did not address those concerns? Her platform was bring back American jobs, lift up the middle class with several concrete programs to do that. Address price gouging.
She did not talk about issues at first at all. Remember her brat summer phase?
Kamala Harris is running on vibes
This is from late August, a month after she took over.
Economist said:
The vibe shift is clearly working its magic. Her smile is “contagious”, said Emily Kostielney, a DNC volunteer in charge of compost education. “She’s somebody that you’d love to grab lunch with, right? And have a great conversation about whatever, and you’re not going to leave feeling defeated and doom and gloom.” Dawn Hucklebridge, a campaigner for paid family leave, describes her “laughter and joy and celebration”. The news of her candidacy “thrilled” her in the way that the release of a new Beyoncé album does.
[...]
Being all things to all people is not a bad quality in a politician. The more votes you get, the more likely you are to win. But it does leave one open to accusations of opportunism. Harris has no clear foreign policy and has only just begun to sketch, in the broadest strokes, her approach to the economy. Vance has called her “a fundamentally fake person” because she has disavowed positions she took on fracking and immigration during the Democratic primary in 2020. (His own well-publicised volte-faces may have undermined his credibility as a messenger.)
For the moment, Harris fans aren’t bothered by the vagueness of her agenda. Okamoto, turning to her 21-year-old sister Issa, asked, “Does it matter to her what the specifics of the policies are, or that it’s just her or Trump?”

As to "price gouging", that is very hard to define. Is it price gouging if price increases as a response to a disequilibrium between supply and demand? Would not controlling the price in such a case perpetuate the disequilibrium and cause shortages?
Take the classic example of gas shortages after a hurricane shuts down Gulf refineries, as has happened several times in the last couple of decades. One major instance in Atlanta that I remember well. Is it not better to let price double and even triple for a short time, meaning that only people who really need to get around will buy gas, conserving the scarce resource until supply can be reestablished? Or is it better to prevent retailers - under pain of civil or even criminal penalties - to increase prices resulting in demand not going down, and even increasing, since many people are then encouraged to hoard?
Did you attend her rallies or listen to her speeches? Or did you make your conclusion based on the tiny snippets of her speeches shown on the news?
Personally, I did watch the debate, but did not watch full speeches, or attend any rallies.
How can you rationalize a person out of a position they didn't rationalize themselves into? "Bacon is a buck more at the grocery store so I vote to destroy democracy."
Why do you think that those who voted for Trump think that he will destroy democracy?
Harris ran a very good standard campaign.
That (and lines like this) is the crux of the matter. This is what I was objecting to.
There was nothing standard about her campaign. She was thrust into it in late July, because Biden dithered too much about whether to stay in the race or bow out. That much is not her fault. But she did rely too much on "vibes" and celebrities, especially initially.
Trump ran a shit show. People preferred the shit show. They liked the insults and the hate. They liked and believed the lies. They liked the rejection of science and facts.
Except they didn't. He lost votes compared to last time ran.
Kamala Harris lost this election far more than Trump won it.
So please. Do tell us all how you counter that sort of attitude? How do you tell someone they are stupid and believe in bullshit without insulting them? I'm all ears.
Maybe start by not ascribing evil motives to them, like you did above when you wrote that they deliberately voted to end democracy.
 
What puzzles me most is that the turnout was so much lower than in 2020. I expected it to be higher. I can find nothing much to explain it on the web. It's not even mentioned or discussed very often. Who didn't vote and why?
 
The only criteria for determining a good campaign is the result - win/lose. If you win it was a good campaign. If you lose it was not a good campaign. Simples.
Trump won so obviously Harris did not run a good campaign.
I disagree here somewhat. One can run a good campaign and still come short. Perhaps because the other guy ran a better one. Or because of circumstances beyond the candidate's and campaign's control.

I think Trump ran a bad campaign. So did Harris. She needed a very good campaign to overcome things not in her control - effects of recent high inflation, Biden's low approval ratings, her being the nominee for a short time (due to Biden's hubris), Arabs and Muslims being mad that Israel dared fight back when attacked from Gaza and Lebanon ...
Unfortunately, she did not deliver.
The Democrats should be very wary of using the last campaign as the template for the next.
"Generals always prepare to fight the last war, especially if they won it."
 
My daughter and son-in-law came around for tea last Wed (AEDT) and we were looking at the election results on the telly with a mixture of bemusement, astonishment and "what is going on over there?"
A couple of months earlier I had asked the wife and daughter to pay some attention to this election as they had never done so much beforehand.

I asked my son-in-law what he thought. "They are all galahs over there". Short, sharp and concise.

Daughter: (D) If you are a non-white person who identified as female and wished to have an abortion at some time in your life and had a uni debt and you knew someone who identifies as trans then the Democrats would look after you. Everbody else can go and get stuffed.
(R) if you are angry at somebody else vote for me.

Wife: (R) Ran an more effective campaign with mininal content level. Being shot at really helped him. A self-centred, self-absorbed clown with seemingly lots of money.
(D): Ran a poorer campaign than Trump (not a high hill to get over but still impossible for the D's). She asked who that balding, grey haired smiling fool who stood beside Harris was ans what was he doing? She thought he must be ballast to stop the stage from floating away. He added nothing, good or bad, to Harris. I asked her to summarise Harris' campaign into a slogan. "I'm not him" she said. That will not likely win a presidental election*. (For those who are unsure 'him' is Trump, not Biden)
She listened to a couple of Harris speeches and watched the very few interviews she did. She is not a Star Wars fan but listening to Harris reminded her of this scene.

*(Though it must be said that the Labour party won the last Aust. Commonwealth election in 2022 with the slogan "We are not Morrison")
 
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